2025 recruitment & retention

[Stewbojevic]

I don’t think a draft is the way to go, it takes away individuals choice of where they want to be and what is personally best for them.

Every individual has a unique circumstance and should be entitled to their own decision.

Make the salary cap the same for every club, some clubs at the moment have huge third party supplements to players along with sponsorship that makes the salary cap an uneven playing field.

Cut the third party supplements and make the salary cap larger if it needs to be to accommodate the deals that players are currently on with third party supplements.

Simple and smart solution

 

[Disco]

Dont want to take this thread off course but the quest to find some utopian form of balance via salary cap, points cap, scrapping third parties, including third parties yada yada is a fools errand IMO

Any system is going to have weaknesses to manipulation.

I like a draft for the distribution of young talent amd the content of it but dont like it as it is a disincentive for clubs to invest in youth and it prevents lical born and bred talant from representing their community.

So.........basically I have no answers. Carry on.

 

[Bearfax]

Dont want to take this thread off course but the quest to find some utopian form of balance via salary cap, points cap, scrapping third parties, including third parties yada yada is a fools errand IMO

Any system is going to have weaknesses to manipulation.

I like a draft for the distribution of young talent amd the content of it but dont like it as it is a disincentive for clubs to invest in youth and it prevents lical born and bred talant from representing their community.

So.........basically I have no answers. Carry on.

The other option to a draft, which is actually used in most US sports, is the points value system for players and you're only allowed a certain number of points total for your 30 players. Then it doesn't matter what they are paid, a club then has a limit regarding who they can recruit and retain. Perhaps include a dispensation or reduction of points value for long term players.

 

[Disco]

The other option to a draft, which is actually used in most US sports, is the points value system for players and you're only allowed a certain number of points total for your 30 players. Then it doesn't matter what they are paid, a club then has a limit regarding who they can recruit and retain. Perhaps include a dispensation or reduction of points value for long term players.

Yeah I dont see a points system as a feasible option, too many holes I can see in it.

 

[Bearfax]

Yeah I dont see a points system as a feasible option, too many holes I can see in it.

Specifically what holes? The only holes that I can envisage, are those imposed to circumvent the process such as too many exemptions.

 

[Disco]

Specifically what holes? The only holes that I can envisage, are those imposed to circumvent the process such as too many exemptions.

Without a heap of thought.

*So if you are talking points for rep players the are all internationals the same? Is Lehi valued at the same as Turbo? Are Origin players the same? Is Munster the same as Capewell?
*If rep selection plays into it would players being incentivised to rule themselves out of Rep selection (ala Jamie Lyon) to keep their points value low.
*Are points tabulated year on year? If a gun misses the first 8 rounds of the season and therefore misses Origin but is usually an Origin player does he reduce value or maintain.
*Measures like Rep Selection or Dally M for example are selected by individuals, to we risk curruption on who gets selected to teams are who receives Dally M points to manipulate points values.
*Do positions effect values? Spines more than centres eg? Do you name Cleary in the centres if so despite his role on the field?

These are all hypotheticals and thrown out quickly but I see holes.

That said, if you somehow got sone amazing algorithm that perfect allocated each player the universally aggreed value across the game the biggest inssue is the interplay between points and a players financial renumeration.

Say, free reign clubs can pay what they like. Lehi, Galvin and Blaize Talaigi come into grade this year and look great but their points vale remains low. All 7 clubs want them at their low points, they are a bargain, but only the richest can afford them. Politis pays each 1mil a season on 3 year deals.

Next season all three explode and become internationals. They no longer fit in the points cap for the Roosters. What happens then?

They have contracts.

*Do the Roosters have to pay them but have them out of ther squad? Do they then go of too Union or Superleague.
*If other clubs only offer 600k who makes up the difference.
*Are players only allowed 1 year deals? That will never happen.
*If a players point allocation makes him a less attractive proposition. What stops clubs offering them 50k, when they could get 400 plus in Super league.


Also a points system gaurrentees the top handful of players in the game will only ever play at the handful of richest clubs. If Cleary is worth 20 points to all teams But the Roosters can pay 5mil a year and Manly 1mil, we never ever have a shot at the top player. Likewise the best rookies who are yet to play grade and on rookie "points" only play for the richest clubs who can throw big dollars at them.

Now all if this is pretty incoherant and scrambled as I've typed it between meetings, in a rush, without much thought but all I see is problems with a points concept.

 

[Ohgeez]

GUTHERSON’S SHOCK MANLY APPROACH
It’s been revealed Clint Gutherson’s management reportedly reached out to the Sea Eagles regarding a potential shock homecoming.

The former Eels skipper was unveiled as the Dragons’ newest recruit on Friday, however his path could have taken a very different turn.

That is according to WWOS, who are reporting the Sea Eagles considered signing Gutherson, but were forced to snub any potential moves due to salary cap limitations.

 

[Frogz]

GUTHERSON’S SHOCK MANLY APPROACH
It’s been revealed Clint Gutherson’s management reportedly reached out to the Sea Eagles regarding a potential shock homecoming.

The former Eels skipper was unveiled as the Dragons’ newest recruit on Friday, however his path could have taken a very different turn.

That is according to WWOS, who are reporting the Sea Eagles considered signing Gutherson, but were forced to snub any potential moves due to salary cap limitations.

I don't knww who talks more sh1t.. Weirdler or Hooper

 

[Smokin Joe]

Without a heap of thought.

*So if you are talking points for rep players the are all internationals the same? Is Lehi valued at the same as Turbo? Are Origin players the same? Is Munster the same as Capewell?
*If rep selection plays into it would players being incentivised to rule themselves out of Rep selection (ala Jamie Lyon) to keep their points value low.
*Are points tabulated year on year? If a gun misses the first 8 rounds of the season and therefore misses Origin but is usually an Origin player does he reduce value or maintain.
*Measures like Rep Selection or Dally M for example are selected by individuals, to we risk curruption on who gets selected to teams are who receives Dally M points to manipulate points values.
*Do positions effect values? Spines more than centres eg? Do you name Cleary in the centres if so despite his role on the field?

These are all hypotheticals and thrown out quickly but I see holes.

That said, if you somehow got sone amazing algorithm that perfect allocated each player the universally aggreed value across the game the biggest inssue is the interplay between points and a players financial renumeration.

Say, free reign clubs can pay what they like. Lehi, Galvin and Blaize Talaigi come into grade this year and look great but their points vale remains low. All 7 clubs want them at their low points, they are a bargain, but only the richest can afford them. Politis pays each 1mil a season on 3 year deals.

Next season all three explode and become internationals. They no longer fit in the points cap for the Roosters. What happens then?

They have contracts.

*Do the Roosters have to pay them but have them out of ther squad? Do they then go of too Union or Superleague.
*If other clubs only offer 600k who makes up the difference.
*Are players only allowed 1 year deals? That will never happen.
*If a players point allocation makes him a less attractive proposition. What stops clubs offering them 50k, when they could get 400 plus in Super league.


Also a points system gaurrentees the top handful of players in the game will only ever play at the handful of richest clubs. If Cleary is worth 20 points to all teams But the Roosters can pay 5mil a year and Manly 1mil, we never ever have a shot at the top player. Likewise the best rookies who are yet to play grade and on rookie "points" only play for the richest clubs who can throw big dollars at them.

Now all if this is pretty incoherant and scrambled as I've typed it between meetings, in a rush, without much thought but all I see is problems with a points concept.

Very valid "points" bwahaha

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

You are correct. The governing body, the clubs and the RLPA, as well as every individual player, would have to agree for a draft system to even stand a chance. And even then, as @frank stokes says, the minute any player (say, a young player about to get drafted somewhere he doesn't want to go) challenged the system in court, it would fall over as a restraint of trade.

Just as a matter of interest , why does it work perfectly in the AFL??

 

[maxta]

I don't think rep player is like for like
The Only way they could be fair , but they won't, is a value system...
Players in these
1 million +
$800,000 - $1,000,000
$$700,000 - $800,000
Ect
There's always strategies to "fit" extras in and "build" around for the richer teams....the old story rich get richer, poor get poorer exists in the NRL

 

[Nordburg]

Just as a matter of interest , why does it work perfectly in the AFL??

AFL clubs,in essence,don’t have juniors.They have academy squads and they get first choice of them when it comes time for drafting.But most players come through school systems or lower level club programs.So more often than not,players don’t have ties to an AFL club until draft time.An internal draft with players that are currently at an NRL,could work and be set up pretty quickly,but a draft for up and coming players would take a long time,agreement from clubs and the whole ecosystem of Australian rugby league to change.Penrith for example,would stop pouring millions into their junior systems/development,if it meant they weren’t getting first use of all their young guns

 

[Ohgeez]

I don't knww who talks more sh1t.. Weirdler or Hooper

Such a stupid decision if it was true… but at the same time I almost hope it was true because that would mean we must have $500k or so to have even been in the hunt

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

AFL clubs,in essence,don’t have juniors.They have academy squads and they get first choice of them when it comes time for drafting.But most players come through school systems or lower level club programs.So more often than not,players don’t have ties to an AFL club until draft time.An internal draft with players that are currently at an NRL,could work and be set up pretty quickly,but a draft for up and coming players would take a long time,agreement from clubs and the whole ecosystem of Australian rugby league to change.Penrith for example,would stop pouring millions into their junior systems/development,if it meant they weren’t getting first use of all their young guns

Okay , didn’t really know all that.

Regardless if the NRL want a product that’s fair to all teams they are somehow going to have to change something to spread the talent.

I e been banging on about a points system for years , it will have faults too but if teams 5-17 ( soon to be 5-18 and then 5-20) need to have a chance of winning and not just the 3 rich clubs then something needs to be done.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Just as a matter of interest , why does it work perfectly in the AFL??

To add to what @Nordburg said, the AFL draft has been and remains accepted by all the parties involved - mutual agreement, basically.

The AFL draft system has not been challenged since its introduction in 1986, although I'm pretty sure there were a couple of restraint of trade cases brought against the VFL prior to that.

 

[Phobia]

Such a stupid decision if it was true… but at the same time I almost hope it was true because that would mean we must have $500k or so to have even been in the hunt

I don't think that's what the article said, I think it was inferring that Gutho contacted Manly about returning, and we didn't have the cap space to accommodate him. That, or we had no interest.

Really interesting that he wanted to come back, and actually sought out us as his first choice. Clearly wasn't a price-increasing move, because he would be stupid to think we would be able to compete with the Dragons. Players actually interested in coming to Manly... Including one that was unceremoniously moved on prior. That's a welcome change.

 

[Nordburg]

Okay , didn’t really know all that.

Regardless if the NRL want a product that’s fair to all teams they are somehow going to have to change something to spread the talent.

I e been banging on about a points system for years , it will have faults too but if teams 5-17 ( soon to be 5-18 and then 5-20) need to have a chance of winning and not just the 3 rich clubs then something needs to be done.

But it has nothing to do with being a rich club.If $$ was the reason for success,the Broncos would win every year.Penrith were down with the pack not so long ago,but they finally sorted out their junior programs and looked at the bigger picture,not just short term success because their highest paid players were coming to the end of their careers.The Storm are continually successful because they have a strong off field unit that can not only identify talent but also character and they have one of the all time great coaches who is meticulous with everything from top to bottom of the club

 

[Disco]

Agreed, Broncos, Dolphins, Warriors all quite wealthy.

There will always be well run clubs and poorly run whatever system is in place.

 

[jbb/james]

All the new clubs are going to be finacially backed big time so the gap between the wealthier clubs will increase as the more powerful clubs increase in numbers.

manly still has to pull its socks up for long term success

Vlandys wont be boss forever and not everyone has the sentimentality toward tradition that he does. How long penn holds a seat at the table of NRL advisors table could be based to vlandys view only

Expansion could be very bad for Manly, especially if its a success. More bids will want to join, with more cash and clout and sydney is overcrowded. When a competition truely becomes national or international having the north shore means SFA

No gloom, just a talk point

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Retention decisions are just as important as recruitment decisions. The club needs to be careful with contract extensions as they effectively take the club out of the market.