Des's Dogs BA's Eels vs Manly

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Alby

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Just wanted to run a statistic on Manly's recent ex-coaches current teams vs Manly.

Des's Dogs : 7 wins 3 losses
BA's Eels: 3 wins 1 loss

I feel this has become a bit of a concern. Not only is the moral defeat hard to swallow, but those defeats have come at crucial times:

2012 Semi final loss against Dogs.
2014 finals (do or die) loss against Dogs
2015 yesterday's (Must Win) round against the Eels.

Do Des and BA have our number because they know our structures very well... our flaws... our targets?

Was our coach being outcoached, or our players being outplayed? Or just sheer coincidence or plain bad luck?

As a Manly fan, these are the losses that hurt most, so hoping TB might get one up 'em next season.
 
Yep these losses really really hurt.

I have noticed this as well. Both Des and BA just have the wood on us big time.

The dogs just get us every time and particularly at crucial times as you mentioned.
 
This is really silly to be crediting Arthur on shutting down our attack. I can read what we are going do, so why couldn't every other coach in the game?

It's not rocket science what teams do in attack these days, especially the sweep play around the back. Stopping it is made difficult when the defence is pressed by losing the ruck. That didn't happen yesterday, and that is why our attack was nullified, not because Arthur stood around at training two years ago.
 
This is really silly to be crediting Arthur on shutting down our attack. I can read what we are going do, so why couldn't every other coach in the game?

It's not rocket science what teams do in attack these days, especially the sweep play around the back. Stopping it is made difficult when the defence is pressed by losing the ruck. That didn't happen yesterday, and that is why our attack was nullified, not because Arthur stood around at training two years ago.

Either way, our record isn't good against these teams - could it be coincidental and we just don't seem to play our best against them?
 
Either way, our record isn't good against these teams - could it be coincidental and we just don't seem to play our best against them?
Well the Dogs play a style that has never sat well with the Eagles, and we all know what a great coach Des is....they have also been to two GF's under Hasler's reign so that's fair form. I think playing a good side has more to do with us losing than Hasler knowing our strengths...although I think it's more likely to be the case here, than with Arthur.

We were flat yesterday (and against Canberra the week before as Toovey said) and Arthur was not responsible for that. We got the Eels in Rd.1 when they were full of confidence and we were in turmoil. There are just far too many variables to put it down to the opposition coach. Especially someone of Arthur's ilk, who is a pill of the highest order.
 
It is really annoying that we have lost our last 7 games against the worms and dirty dogs combined. They are the 2 games that you want Manly to do well in and of late we come up short when it comes to composure, we lose so many close games to the dogs especially. that really is gut wrenching.

Des is a quality coach and they just know how to edge games, Arthur is just rubbing our noses in it and really in hindsight it was a massive error ever bringing him into our club.
 
The Dogs have troubled us simply due to forward power, nothing more, nothing less.
The current Manly team can turn up with a higher energy level than some packs & break even, allowing the backs to win the game....but the Dogs strength has unfortunately been our weakness...can't comment on BA other than to say he somehow gets them up for the Manly games....if they played every game like the 2 against us they would be in the 8.
Truth is, we went out on Sunday thinking about winning by a margin before simply getting the 2 points & in the conditions, against a willing team with bigger aggressive forwards- it didn't happen.
 
Buderus just showed he is a superior coach to Bellamy.
(Unless there was some other explanation)
If Buderus builds a decent win record against Melbourne, you could say he may have the wood on Bellamy - but that doesn't necessarily make him a better coach.
 
Say what you like , but our team during the 2V era has not performed v those two sides.

The fact that their coaches would know most of our key players back to front wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it ?
 
Just wanted to run a statistic on Manly's recent ex-coaches current teams vs Manly.

Des's Dogs : 7 wins 3 losses
BA's Eels: 3 wins 1 loss

I feel this has become a bit of a concern. Not only is the moral defeat hard to swallow, but those defeats have come at crucial times:

2012 Semi final loss against Dogs.
2014 finals (do or die) loss against Dogs
2015 yesterday's (Must Win) round against the Eels.

Do Des and BA have our number because they know our structures very well... our flaws... our targets?

Was our coach being outcoached, or our players being outplayed? Or just sheer coincidence or plain bad luck?

As a Manly fan, these are the losses that hurt most, so hoping TB might get one up 'em next season.

Insider knowledge helps a lot

There is a reason insider trading is banned, too much of an unfair advantage.
 
This is really silly to be crediting Arthur on shutting down our attack. I can read what we are going do, so why couldn't every other coach in the game?

It's not rocket science what teams do in attack these days, especially the sweep play around the back. Stopping it is made difficult when the defence is pressed by losing the ruck. That didn't happen yesterday, and that is why our attack was nullified, not because Arthur stood around at training two years ago.

Snake, get what your saying mate, but I respectfully disagree. When Des was here, I saw our play change a number of times, and that transitioned to his move to The Bulldogs.

At one stage, when Orford was here we had a very flat attack, and really fast dummy half movements (when Monaghan / Le'Strange were here). Des also carried a utility at that stage.

Then, we went to a deep attack, with those sweeping behind the forward runner passes, that we are still now seeing under Tooves.

Des then had his forwards at The Bulldogs playing the ball before the defensive line, and there was a lot of second phase play.

Now, his team is really no nonsense, in behind the ruck up the middle play (which suits his big bopper's perfectly).

I still think our play style hasn't changed since Des.

I heard The Roosters coach one time this year suggesting his team lost, because they played 2014 football, and it was 2015. That's how fast the game changes. You need an innovative coach that is one step ahead of the opposition.

I thought our defensive structures in a team that had Radradra in it was flawed on the weekend. I thought our game plan was poor. If it were once or twice that we played dry weather footy in the rain, fine - but we did it the whole game, and everyone was guilty, even the fan favorites.

Look at how Des has his forwards motivated every game. James Graham is a beast - so passionate. Ours are very robot like. Yeah, they do a job, but you don't see the anger, aggression, passion that we need.

I'm very, very unhappy with the way the tall brass treated Toovey, but maybe a change is what we need? I read that Barrett was the brains behind the innovation at Penrith - and I also see no coincidence that they have dropped off since he left.

I'm so, so happy that we have avoided the wooden spoon. I love that fact, and it's something I reiterate to heaps of people. But for the first time in a decade, we are going to miss the finals. We've had worse injury runs than this in previous years - so I'm also bitterly disappointed.
 
Maybe we will have no game plan next year
How about an oldie but a goodie: Play what's in front of you.
I hate the cliche "We didn't stick to our game plan". All current coaches seem to have that same plan, it's just one team executes it better on the day (although I'm not sure our team had a clue how to play wet weather football last Sunday). So, I'm looking forward to a new generation of coaches (potentially Barrett; potentially the Walker Brothers) bringing something different to our sport.
 

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