Future

[Reggie 12]

Compare our young players coming through to the raiders and it is no contest, the question has to be asked there was a big song and dance about crusher joining us yet I don't think we have improved in junior development or recruitment at all. I would take either mcrone or the new kid williams over both our young so called future of the club halves. I also note the 2 Canberra halves aren't even  there first choice, 1 club is doing a great job with less resources ( who want's to live in Canberra) yet with all our advantages we are going backwards. For all those who say oh it's only the first round take the rose colored  glasses off and admit since the gf we have been on a steady fall and I don't see any improvement with the lack of quality young players coming through.

 

[willstyles]

You'd take McCrone/Williams over Foran?

 

[Reggie 12]

You'd take McCrone/Williams over Foran?

In a heartbeat, Foran in my opinion has not progressed as a player infact I would say he seemed to have more spark when he debuted. 

 

[jbb/james]

hindsight is a wonderful thing. Canberra have just had 1 win and a fairly good season and now are a success. They may well be yet but its too early to say. Many of the young kids canberra have persevered with are not young kids anymore and have been around gaining experience and ability for a few years now. They are no where near as inexperieced as our kids, Hoppa, and DCE, jamie B, etc. Canberra must have doubts too about there players or would never have got orford

Halves in paricular are a diffuly commodity to develop, recruit etc

I dont see manlys recruitment as a problem rather there long term retention. Its just my opinion but every club that wins a GF should unload at least 50% of the squad straight away and start rebuilding staright away ,around the core that still has legs. Much easier to unload contracted players when they are in a winning team. Keep a few mongrels, some talent and get youth and hunger

Every year you wait is another year in limbo. Manly are having there last year in limbo in 2011 and will start rebuilding in 2012 . And then crusher can be judged like he was when he built us a GF team

 

[bones]

Canberra were only playing the sharks and it was in Canberra. Do You think , as good as they were, that Williams and mcCrone would have dominated against Melbourne in Melbourne in the first game that the storm had been playing for points since last April?  Let's compare them after two months of footy and see how they stack up.

 

[lloydy]

The raiders have gone through 10+ ordinary years, now call me dumb but I don't want to go through that do you? A good mix of youth and experience is what you need.

 

[MadMarcus]

Do you really think our recruitment has not improved at all since Crusher joined us (in 2004)?   ???

 

[lloydy]

Also you are forgetting the choice of young kids coming through the Canberra area is massive compared to our junior base.

 

[Reggie 12]

hindsight is a wonderful thing. Canberra have just had 1 win and a fairly good season and now are a success. They may well be yet but its too early to say. Many of the young kids canberra have persevered with are not young kids anymore and have been around gaining experience and ability for a few years now. They are no where near as inexperieced as our kids, Hoppa, and DCE, jamie B, etc. Canberra must have doubts too about there players or would never have got orford

Halves in paricular are a diffuly commodity to develop, recruit etc

I dont see manlys recruitment as a problem rather there long term retention. Its just my opinion but every club that wins a GF should unload at least 50% of the squad straight away and start rebuilding staright away ,around the core that still has legs. Much easier to unload contracted players when they are in a winning team. Keep a few mongrels, some talent and get youth and hunger

Every year you wait is another year in limbo. Manly are having there last year in limbo in 2011 and will start rebuilding in 2012 . And then crusher can be judged like he was when he built us a GF team

To be fair to give Crusher credit for the GF win is overstating it, there was not 1 young player that Crusher recruited that was in the team. I'm talking about a player that he signed as a 16,17 or even 18 year old. I think his performance is overstated name 1 superstar or potential superstar that we have because of Crusher recruiting him  as a 15,16,17 year old I can't find 1 and how long has he been here. I do admit it has improved since he joined but let's not forget before he joined us we were broke so couldn't recruit any one.

 

[MadMarcus]

Players who have make their first grade debut with us since Crusher came across include Steve Matai (2005), Travis Burns (2005), Adam Cuthbertson (2006), Matt Ballin (2007), Michael Bani (2007), David Williams (2008), Kieren Foran (2009), JWH (2009), Jamie Buhrer (2010), Trent Hodkinson (2010), William Hopoate (2010), Michael Oldfield (2010), Dean Whare (2010).

Quite a few rep players in that list and 2010 looks like it could potentially be his best year.

If you look at the 10 years before Crusher came on board the biggest name player to debut from us aside from the Stewart brothers was Sam Harris.

 

[jbb/james]

recruitment or development. Recruitment is recruitment regardless of age. currently the forum is going nuts over losing both tasi and JWH. Both young recruits with enormous potential bought to the club from NZ and logan. It wasnt his fault we are unable to retain them. The under 20 squad has been playing well consistently.

There is no doubts crusher in his job as recruitment of all players has got mark bryant, gen hall, jamie lyon,Heath le starnger, jamie B to the club. Robbo, wolfman, Whare and oldfield have been recruited as youngsters but havnt been able to crack a spot as mattai and lyon are pretty handy

To be honest crusher is the least of manlys problems. Back ended contracts, increasing contracts for retention of players has hit hard.Manly are not on there pat malone here, just have a look at the other clubs after winning a GF. Des rarely plays young players anyway so its his job to recruit what the club wants and needs. To recruit players des wont use would be crazy

 

[Reggie 12]

Players who have make their first grade debut with us since Crusher came across include Steve Matai (2005), Travis Burns (2005), Adam Cuthbertson (2006), Matt Ballin (2007), Michael Bani (2007), David Williams (2008), Kieren Foran (2009), JWH (2009), Jamie Buhrer (2010), Trent Hodkinson (2010), William Hopoate (2010), Michael Oldfield (2010), Dean Whare (2010).

Quite a few rep players in that list and 2010 looks like it could potentially be his best year.

If you look at the 10 years before Crusher came on board the biggest name player to debut from us aside from the Stewart brothers was Sam Harris.

I'm talking about young players recruited and in our system and developed, the only player there would be Buhrer the others are either local juniors or players developed by other clubs. The player which best defines this is Nik Kosef recruited at a young age and only knee injury's prevented him from being an all time great.

 

[slickster71]

no offense greg but your got it all wrong.

Crusher recruited Jamie Lyon when he was at parramtta then crusher came to manly and Jamie followed him few years later. there 1 international we have that crusher brought up.

We have lost a few because of the salary cap. 1 JWH and tasi is a future star and left becuase of the cap.

you can not keep everyone. Our future is behind hoppa, oldfield, Mauro, Foran brothers, DCE, etc.

I think he is doing good job.

Canberra have one of the biggest junior base while manly junior is one of the smallest in the comp.

lets all be fair on crusher and he is doing a supurb job.

Find me another recruitment officer that brought up Premiership winning centre, Super league player of the year 2 yrs straight.

 

[MadMarcus]

I'm talking about young players recruited and in our system and developed, the only player there would be Buhrer the others are either local juniors or players developed by other clubs. The player which best defines this is Nik Kosef recruited at a young age and only knee injury's prevented him from being an all time great.

I'm not sure about the others off the top of my head, but Matt Ballin was not a local junior and he was not developed by another club.

And I'm pretty sure all of the Canberra players you referred to are their local juniors, so I'm not sure I understand your comparison?

 

[jbb/james]

mate, crusher spots em, the coaches develop them, and the club retains them. Buhrer is from parra from memory anyway as are about half the recruits we have had.
Im not having a go greg but im getting confused

If we go back to your first and last points in the thread. Many of the canberra stars you talk of are local juniors, which you seem a fan of but when names like cuthbo are tossed around for manly you dont count them

Both bryant and hall were virtually on the srcap heap. In fact canberra the super club didnt offer bryant a contract

Whare was young and at saints

A very very poofteenth % of players at all clubs that are stars at 15 even make grade

So you want a list of players that crusher has recruited
That cant be in the local comp even though they still have to be spotted as potential before other clubs get them, cant come from other clubs, even if they are like tasi and JWH who was about 16 or 17 when he came.
cant be like wolfman as he only travelled 60km to get here

Sure nick cobar kosef who i believe was recommended to the club by les boyd( from memory) who also recommended bryant is the type of list you want to quantifys the crushers input. After all that is what the original post implied. Forgive me if i have that wrong greg. Not trying to have a go but the relevence of what age, and what country area they come from does not indicate the recruitment officers ability in my opinion

 

[willstyles]

"poofteenth"

Sorry, but this had me in stitches. I need more sleep.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

The future IS bright....I said last year that we are in a transition time, building for another Premiership roughly 5 years after the last one.

We'll be better in 2012
And MUCH better in 2013

And that's NOT with Rose Glasses on!

 

[Moops]

Do you really think our recruitment has not improved at all since Crusher joined us (in 2004)?  ???

Really, 2004 was our lowest ebb, so it wouldn't have been hard to improve.

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Players who have make their first grade debut with us since Crusher came across include Steve Matai (2005), Travis Burns (2005), Adam Cuthbertson (2006), Matt Ballin (2007), Michael Bani (2007), David Williams (2008), Kieren Foran (2009), JWH (2009), Jamie Buhrer (2010), Trent Hodkinson (2010), William Hopoate (2010), Michael Oldfield (2010), Dean Whare (2010).

Quite a few rep players in that list and 2010 looks like it could potentially be his best year.

If you look at the 10 years before Crusher came on board the biggest name player to debut from us aside from the Stewart brothers was Sam Harris.

Who are the rep players? New Zealand doesn't count. They use about 40 players a year...

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

We started the "build" in 2004, Crusher said to me it would take 5 years...it took 4 years to get to a grand Final and in the 5th we won one.

We haven't stopped unloading players since, so we need to build again......which is why I say above we'll be better in 2012, and good again in 2013.

It's hardly "Northern Eagle" days, just enjoy what we have and know that around the corner good times will come again.

 

[MadMarcus]

Really, 2004 was our lowest ebb, so it wouldn't have been hard to improve.

So in other words you agree with me that we have improved...

Who are the rep players? New Zealand doesn't count. They use about 40 players a year...

That's great news that New Zealand doesn't count - does that make Australia the World Champions then?

Even by your criteria Matt Ballin and David Williams are rep players, unless for some reason NSW, Queensland and Australia don't count either or you want to introduce some other criteria to exclude them.