Going wide early

[Technical Coach]

Just watched the Storm v Warriors game(only watched parts of the game mainly back end of each half last week) and if the Warriors play as polished,disciplined and maintaining the same intensity for long periods they will probably have our measure.(big ask though to do it twice)

One out forward runs which we have been guilty of at times this year will not cut it---going two out or a half sliding across using under plays is the bare minimum---one out flat forward plays are ok off the back of a quick play the ball though. I think we should be going wide early to commit defenders to protect outside spot players in numbers before hitting up the middle.(the opposite to what normally happens)

Going wide early is for two reasons----one it offers softer yardage gains and two opens up the compressed middle for more yardage gains and explosive middle runners hitting holes. The risk is we fall overly into our side ways running go forward that i'm not a fan of so it's got to be direct, crisp sharp spreads not forwards running sideways and being hit on the inside hip with a dominant tackle.

The Warriors go forward was simple, direct and sharp---mixed in with a few one out under plays to change direction and the occasional 2 out pass. The parts of the game i watched last week showed more offloads and spreads in the back end of each half which was not a true indicator of their style against the Storm---the performance was more polished and composed than i originally thought---i was impressed with what i saw but more impressed this time around.

We can still win but i'm more convinced now we need to put on points early to make them question their beliefs or hope fatigue plays a factor.

Manu comes up and in early we can actually shape to put the sweeping play for Stewart and not use him bringing Manu in then hitting the short side quickly the next play with a flat running G.Stewart who can also mix it up with ball playing. Or set up for a spread and kick early in the count keeping Manu on the back foot before unleashing the second man plays.

If we can gain good field position in attack i'm sure we can put points on as the Warriors outside defenders can easily get isolated--- i'm more worried about getting good field position consistently through out the game.

 

[Rex]

Cowboys. Reputed strength in forwards.

Wide: 0-8
Direct: 42-0

 

[Technical Coach]

Cowboys. Reputed strength in forwards.

Wide: 0-8
Direct: 42-0

You can play direct and spread by maintaining flat runners mixed in with deeper plays---against the Cowboys it was just spreading with side ways movement .

You have to get out of the mentality that the term "going wide" refers to everything of a direct attacking nature----modern teams actually use second man plays in their own half to set up outside yardage gains avoiding the solid impact up the middle.

I'm not saying do not play direct----playing direct should be every teams base style it's about adding early wide plays to set up direct approaches up the middle. Going one out will just cause slow gang tackle sets even if they are of a direct straight nature unless good leg drive forwards can hit face down providing quick play the balls.

I would also be encouraging a certain forward who shall not be named to revert back to his "old style" (deliberately vague) to improve his poor leg drive----very rarely does he fight through a tackle anymore and comes to a complete stop on any form of impact.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Do you seriously expect Choc to understand that game plan?
Just smash 'em

 

[mickqld]

I'll leave it to Des to sort out the details.

 

[MK Eagle]

Sorry TC but I really believe to unravvle any defence it ALWAYS starts by attacking the A defenders. The go wide early theory for me is ideal from broken play such as that bronco turnover when Lyon dislodged the ball & it went to Hoppa on the right for a try. You have to earn the right to attack wide & if everyone plays direct & gets NZ backpeddling they will tire - this will possably present the opportunity to go wide early on 2 & 3 from time to time. This NZ side make poor decisions on the back of quick play the balls & the Beast does rush in leaving open corridors out wide, still gotta win the mid field imo.
In saying that TC, if we do go wide early & score a couple of meat pies I wont be complaining.

 

[Technical Coach]

Sorry TC but I really believe to unravvle any defence it ALWAYS starts by attacking the A defenders. The go wide early theory for me is ideal from broken play such as that bronco turnover when Lyon dislodged the ball & it went to Hoppa on the right for a try. You have to earn the right to attack wide & if everyone plays direct & gets NZ backpeddling they will tire - this will possably present the opportunity to go wide early on 2 & 3 from time to time. This NZ side make poor decisions on the back of quick play the balls & the Beast does rush in leaving open corridors out wide, still gotta win the mid field imo.
In saying that TC, if we do go wide early & score a couple of meat pies I wont be complaining.

Mk i'm not saying to go wide to score points----it's about hitting one up the middle next play 2 out with a second man forward play which creates a short side then an oldschool Watmough diagonal short side run hoping for a quick play the ball or use T-Rex---4th tackle Big Joe straight and flat back up the middle then your kick. There are many variations with under plays then going wide to mix up the pattern but try to avoid one out up the middle plays too often against an in form Warriors.

Watching the Storm v Warriors game the Storm at times played wide mixed with quick short side edge plays and made good yardage but they went back into their conservative shell too often on a dry track.

Storm played one out too much and were struggling to get out of their half---too conservative in their go forward plays has been an issue with the Storm for a while now---tight in your face strong up the middle defence builds field position against such teams---(Manly have done it to the Storm and the Warriors used it also)

In general i agree with what your saying for most games but you have to mix it up a bit with the type of form the Warriors displayed against the Storm.

With the rain now it actually helps us against the Warriors taking away their footwork and naturally forwards slow down a little to make sure they actually catch the ball taking away some of their big high speed go forward. We don't have to play as wide now and can use our superior kicking game for field position and repeat sets buiding pressure on top of dominant defence that can more easily hone in on lower speed less footwork forwards in the rain.

Manly are a better dry weather fast track team but in this instance i think the weather works in our favour against the current form of the Warriors.

 

[Technical Coach]

So we did end up going wide early in the first half for softer metres and to open up the middle---also targeting Manu is too hard to resist---great minds think alike or could i be the real Dessie.

Now can we finally ease up on the KPI's so that i can relax and clear my mind for a season before making a decision on my future for 2013 onwards.

 

[captainskin]

I knew you were really, Des. ;^)

 

[Rex]

Manly used the same core attacking tactics they've used throughout the year.

1. Dominate the middle
2. If opposition defence compresses, run decoy and cutout passes around the compressed defence
3. If opposition defence doesn't compress, then use the gaps up the middle

Add a strong defence and kicking game. Hardly rocket surgery.

 

[Ian Martin tragic]

The tactical battle was tight in the first half. the warriors succeeded for a while in keepiing it tight, containing our attacking structures (just barely sometimes).

Their experience cost them as they coughed up the ball when they got down our end and had a chance to turn the screws a couple of times. And when we surprised them with the wide attack from our own 20 in the last minute of the first half and turned that into a try (dce did fantastically there to nail that; compare to the warriors halves in the first half), it meant the gameplan to keep it tight and low scoring was looking like a failure.

Witness the flow of errors in the opening part of the 2nd half. We came out with more confidence to break them up. To their credit they had a red hot go when it was almost too late (but not quite). but composure, fitness, guts and cool heads got us home. beautiful stuff.

 

[MK Eagle]

Fair go TC - it was won in the middle of the park & if its the same game I watched even the Seaeagles opening try was through the middle with DCE targeting the inside A defenders straight through the guts. They did have Warriors backpeddling & at times target the fringes with T Rex & Co early but for me it was the same song as any grand final win in the history of rugby league - win the ruck you win the game. Anyways - not here to say who got what right, we are all batting for the same team. I think the fairest call is to be happy Des got it right & he is back in 2012.
Btw i do like your posts mate & often agree with your vision, just not this time, however, if Des calls you in as his right hand man you have my nomination.

 

[DSM5]

TC only wishes he was Des. We dominated the middle, and that is what opened up out wide. Without taking it up the guts early, you don't earn the right to win.

 

[WAMF]

Not enough umms, ahhs and errs in your forecasts and assessments to be taken seriously TC.

 

[swoop]

We played no different to any other win, as DSM5 said we dominated the ruck late in the first half and that gave us the momentum and room out wide. You can't go wide early as the opposition will be up in you face. Straight up the guts was the go and then wide once we had them going backwards.

 

[Technical Coach]

Manly used the same core attacking tactics they've used throughout the year.

1. Dominate the middle
2. If opposition defence compresses, run decoy and cutout passes around the compressed defence
3. If opposition defence doesn't compress, then use the gaps up the middle

Add a strong defence and kicking game. Hardly rocket surgery.

Oh so Manly only decided that the defence was compressed at 2:10 as the key indicator for the rest of the half---it was planned before the game not during it.

 

[jjai]

Manly used the same core attacking tactics they've used throughout the year.

1. Dominate the middle
2. If opposition defence compresses, run decoy and cutout passes around the compressed defence
3. If opposition defence doesn't compress, then use the gaps up the middle

Add a strong defence and kicking game. Hardly rocket surgery.

exactly....

 

[Technical Coach]

Fair go TC - it was won in the middle of the park & if its the same game I watched even the Seaeagles opening try was through the middle with DCE targeting the inside A defenders straight through the guts. They did have Warriors backpeddling & at times target the fringes with T Rex & Co early but for me it was the same song as any grand final win in the history of rugby league - win the ruck you win the game. Anyways - not here to say who got what right, we are all batting for the same team. I think the fairest call is to be happy Des got it right & he is back in 2012.
Btw i do like your posts mate & often agree with your vision, just not this time, however, if Des calls you in as his right hand man you have my nomination.

I'm talking about go forward within our half not attacking plays in the red zone for the 100th time.

Winning the ruck goes without saying in any game and it's clear in my original post my comments were directed towards avoiding "too much one out hit ups"

Even Gould noticed we were trying to get around the outside in our own half blind Freddy could see that. In terms of up the middle go forward and throughout the whole game there really was not much in it. Overall i think the Warriors won the yardage game but we were effective enough in the first half to trouble their edges and more creative in our sets.

The inside ball from DCE in the red zone has little to do with the initial debate of go forward---i did state going wide early will open gaps up the middle for hole runners---i also stated it was the opposite approach you normally take by dominating the middle sucking in defenders then going wide but it was required against the Warriors.

In saying that the inside ball to DCE had zero to do with my game plan and just taking advantage of a slow lazy marker not tightening up the middle. Using a red zone attack in a debate about go forward really is silly.

---

The tactical battle was tight in the first half. the warriors succeeded for a while in keepiing it tight, containing our attacking structures (just barely sometimes).

Their experience cost them as they coughed up the ball when they got down our end and had a chance to turn the screws a couple of times. And when we surprised them with the wide attack from our own 20 in the last minute of the first half and turned that into a try (dce did fantastically there to nail that; compare to the warriors halves in the first half), it meant the gameplan to keep it tight and low scoring was looking like a failure.

Witness the flow of errors in the opening part of the 2nd half. We came out with more confidence to break them up. To their credit they had a red hot go when it was almost too late (but not quite). but composure, fitness, guts and cool heads got us home. beautiful stuff.

Manly were showing signs of fatigue as early as the 50th min due to the high defensive intensity of the first half---we started playing more conservatively within our go forward sets and the try in the 57th min showed signs of relief in the players faces.

The last 15-20min we were running on empty(the players admit to that) struggling to contain the offloads as the Warriors chanced themselves more---our defensive intensity in the first half controlled the offloads on top of the Warriors playing overly conservative for too long.

---

Not enough umms, ahhs and errs in your forecasts and assessments to be taken seriously TC.

Unlike the real Dessie i don't play a game called "use the least amount of words possible while extending the reply with umms ahhs and errs to reduce the amount of time for extra questions and avoiding answering them at the same time"

 

[MK Eagle]

NO nononono - now I know your a Gus fan.
The attack was based down the middle, hence the 30 minute arm wrestle before a try was scored. The only wide attack to mention was when the defence was compressed & Manly ran a 2nd man behind a decoy runner creating space for the outside known as a block play. If Gould pointed this out its because he was watching the same game as everyone else - nothing more or less.
The try up the middle was scored because it was a 2nd tackle suprise option plus the A defender was lazy/tired & not from wide attack- the result of direct attack laying this platform (red zone or not).
The Seaeagles I observed was very similar to the same as the recent finals style & gameplan -simple. Tip ons & support through the ruck is NOT going wide nor is playing on the fringes trying to run T Rex or Gift at the halves ect.
Sometimes you need to take the blinkers off TC , maybe others on here are not as limited with footy knowledge as you may think.

 

[Technical Coach]

Once again MK "the only wide attack"---the second man plays,two out passing and spreads in our half were not solely for attacking purposes it was to avoid too much one out up the middle stuff that killed the Storm.

We did not want to overly engage in an arm wrestle up the middle we wanted to spread the middle and tire the forwards with lateral movement and take advantage of poor numbering up out wide occasionally getting them to overly protect the edge spot defenders then work another hit up up the middle with less gang tackle numbers.

It does not mean that more plays went wide then up the middle it means we mixed our play with early spreads to make better use of up the middle hitups and hole runners and also softer yardage gains with the added bonus it may offer an attacking opportunity.

Each to their own i guess.