Rainbows,rubgy league, Roberts, religion...

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yeah but they did build the aqueducts.

Meanwhile congratulations on a reply devoid of any reference to lefties.

 

[Technical Coach]

Just in case you never bothered to click the link, this is the article, and for the umpteenth time the reference to the colonial era was not my idea, it's in the heading of the article.


View attachment 22041


And yes specifically British colonialism has been a topic here of late, in regards to the superior white missionaries saving what they saw as the backwards and savage peoples of the world, in this case in the Pacific, by spreading their version of some gospel. Which, via a circuitous route, has ended up screwing Manly's season, and possibly next season and beyond.

But you know all that already.

The point really is keep agendas, ideals, belief systems etc out of the workplace/corportate world, Sport and places of history. Such places are bound by the "law" to be "inclusive", they are not a place of protest or force feeding beliefs and sexuality.

The above places everyone "must be treated equally" in other words day to day public living we all need to get along and abide by the law, fighting for rights or acceptance or awareness etc is done via protests where people have the "choice" to attend or support, education, family upbringing and the law enforces what is hopefully what the majority want.

Just because Ian Roberts is gay doesn't mean i didn't support him equally in his role at Manly, in the same way i would support and respect anyone from the LGBTQ+ for defending our country or helping others in need. But to promote one segment of society at a club, corporation or place of respect etc over another is asking for trouble.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

But to promote one segment of society at a club, corporation or place of respect etc over another is asking for trouble.

There is some complexity to the issues and I do appreciate you putting your views without anger ridicule and insult, so thanks for that, and as for my previous comment, it wasn’t intended as an insult to you so I’m sorry.

In discussing the 1st post (above) we already covered the argument that promoting one group over another can be problematic, and I agree, but I disagree that the jersey was doing that, just as I disagree that the military exhibition was doing that. If that was how the rebel players saw it then it just highlights that much more effort should have gone into making sure the whole organization understood what it was about.

But I’m curious what you make of this one? You say the ‘workplace/corporate world” is not a place for protest or ideals or belief systems, and mention that the law already requires inclusivity. The law also requires people not to bash their family members does it not?

Voice Against Violence

The NRL Voice Against Violence program aims to assist the rugby league community to stand up, speak out and take action to prevent violence against women and children.

www.nrl.com

 

[Seagles68]

There is some complexity to the issues and I do appreciate you putting your views without anger ridicule and insult, so thanks for that, and as for my previous comment, it wasn’t intended as an insult to you so I’m sorry.

In discussing the 1st post (above) we already covered the argument that promoting one group over another can be problematic, and I agree, but I disagree that the jersey was doing that, just as I disagree that the military exhibition was doing that. If that was how the rebel players saw it then it just highlights that much more effort should have gone into making sure the whole organization understood what it was about.

But I’m curious what you make of this one? You say the ‘workplace/corporate world” is not a place for protest or ideals or belief systems, and mention that the law already requires inclusivity. The law also requires people not to bash their family members does it not?

Voice Against Violence

The NRL Voice Against Violence program aims to assist the rugby league community to stand up, speak out and take action to prevent violence against women and children.

www.nrl.com

I see new worms wriggling from a can

 

[Technical Coach]

There is some complexity to the issues and I do appreciate you putting your views without anger ridicule and insult, so thanks for that, and as for my previous comment, it wasn’t intended as an insult to you so I’m sorry.

In discussing the 1st post (above) we already covered the argument that promoting one group over another can be problematic, and I agree, but I disagree that the jersey was doing that, just as I disagree that the military exhibition was doing that. If that was how the rebel players saw it then it just highlights that much more effort should have gone into making sure the whole organization understood what it was about.

But I’m curious what you make of this one? You say the ‘workplace/corporate world” is not a place for protest or ideals or belief systems, and mention that the law already requires inclusivity. The law also requires people not to bash their family members does it not?

Voice Against Violence

The NRL Voice Against Violence program aims to assist the rugby league community to stand up, speak out and take action to prevent violence against women and children.

www.nrl.com

A business should stick with providing a service or product at a sustainable profit(or staying solvent) while abiding by corporate law in doing so along with abiding by the general laws for society to function.

Stay out of promotions of "all types" and leave that for individuals to bring like minded people together,the numbers will speak for themselves, not force people to join a promotion just because they are employed at the same company and feel they have to conform to retain their jobs or to not feel uncomfortable in the workplace.

I'm not even a fan of Multicultural day promotions or Indigenous round etc, the mere fact we have all cultures and races playing the game and "getting along" is self promotion in itself and the law at work doing what it is supposed to.

If a country has to promote that violence is wrong then we have bigger problems as a society that need addressing before dealing with violence.

 

[Technical Coach]

I see new worms wriggling from a can

What i see in SE8 response was a softening up period at the start of his reply and a "trying to checkmate" style ending all dressed up in a passive aggressive tone to try and slide under the radar.

Former University of Sydney Law student i'm thinking.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

What i see in SE8 response was a softening up period at the start of his reply and a "trying to checkmate" style ending all dressed up in a passive aggressive tone to try and slide under the radar.

Haha you find a "passive aggressive tone"??? Hard to explain why you'd say that... maybe you are projecting? Maybe you are hallucinating? Maybe you are just plain paranoid?

But most likely I think... you couldn't think of any rational counter to my comment so resort to personal attack as a diversion. Unsuccessfully. Tsk tsk I hoped for better from you

 

[Technical Coach]

Haha you find a "passive aggressive tone"??? Hard to explain why you'd say that... maybe you are projecting? Maybe you are hallucinating? Maybe you are just plain paranoid?

But most likely I think... you couldn't think of any rational counter to my comment so resort to personal attack as a diversion. Unsuccessfully. Tsk tsk I hoped for better from you

I was expecting this kind of reply almost on point, but obviously you have the ability to word your replies much more eloquently and efficiently than how i imagined due to a higher level of education.

It still makes for good reading and i can improve my limited vocabulary at the same time so not all is lost.

The problem with your responses is you are caught up in "trapping" people mode or counter arguing for the sake of a "win" it comes across as copy and paste, like a Lawyer always finding a previous precedent to justify his or her point.

See i don't really have an issue in terms of people choosing to support the promotion or not, i do have an issue of forcing people to conform in a place where everyone is entitled to privacy of their own views or beliefs, especially in the work place.

Discrimination in the workplace should never be tolerated as we all need to earn a living and have an avenue to be productive in this world out of our own living bubbles, which is what the "Law" is for.

In the same way no Gay or Lesbian should be forced to "come out" unless they are comfortable in doing so, no person who has certain views about sexuality or any kind of lifestyle or belief system should be forced to display them in the open if they are not comfortable in doing so and it risks their future employment.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It still makes for good reading and i can improve my limited vocabulary

Thanks!

The problem with your responses is you are caught up in "trapping" people mode or counter arguing for the sake of a "win"

I don't see why you won't accept my comments and questions for what they are. You (and a couple of others) stick with grim determination to this line that I am trying to trick people or score points. Why, I do not know. What I do know is that pretending my arguments are dishonest is a great way to avoid answering the points i make.*

See i don't really have an issue in terms of people choosing to support the promotion or not, i do have an issue of forcing people to conform in a place where everyone is entitled to privacy of their own views or beliefs, especially in the work place.

Discrimination in the workplace should never be tolerated as we all need to earn a living and have an avenue to be productive in this world out of our own living bubbles, which is what the "Law" is for.

In the same way no Gay or Lesbian should be forced to "come out" unless they are comfortable in doing so, no person who has certain views about sexuality or any kind of lifestyle or belief system should be forced to display them in the open if they are not comfortable in doing so and it risks their future employment.

This is more to the crux of the matter. Discrimination is exactly the issue. The club (foolishly) in effect asserted by its jersey promotion that everyone is welcome in league, even gay men. It was the rebels who actively prepetrated discrimination by refusing to wear a jumper that signified everyone is welcome in league, even gay men. They wanted gay men excluded, not included. They would not stand up against discrimination against gay men, because (clearly) they believe gay men should be discriminated against.

The only possible alternative explanation is that put forward by the likes of red Pill, namely, they don't disapprove of gay men, they do want gay men to feel welcome in the game, but they just don't want to encourage men to be gay and they don't want to celebrate gay men. That is such a stupid argument it doesn't bear further comment.

You are saying people should be allowed not only to privately discriminate against gays, but also to refuse to publicly endorse company policy stating we don't accept discrimination. You are demanding the right to discriminate, specifically in this case the right to be homophobic. As are all the religious institutions in this country.


*I am still curious what you think of the NRL Voice against Violence campaign. You avoided answering my question by claiming my question is not genuine. But I am genuinely curious and your response is an extraordinarily weak excuse and frankly not becoming of an independent thinker such as yourself. You can do better...

 

[Spartan Eagle]

Can we change the title of this thread.. what a gee up to Ian Roberts..it has nothing to do with the great Manly man. Tenuous connection at best. Can we just call it for what it is . A peeing competition.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Church v Gay v Footy … (continued) this in AFL

"They made it clear that my Christian faith and my association with a Church are unacceptable in our culture if you wish to hold a leadership position in society."

…In a statement, Essendon president David Barham said the church's views were contrary to the club's values and that Mr Thorburn had been issued with an ultimatum.

"The board made clear that, despite these not being views that Andrew Thorburn has expressed personally and that were also made prior to him taking up his role as chairman, he couldn't continue to serve in his dual roles at the Essendon Football Club and as chairman of City on the Hill," Mr Barham said.



Essendon CEO resigns just one day after being appointed following church controversy

 

[WiseyEagle]

Church v Gay v Footy … (continued) this in AFL

"They made it clear that my Christian faith and my association with a Church are unacceptable in our culture if you wish to hold a leadership position in society."

…In a statement, Essendon president David Barham said the church's views were contrary to the club's values and that Mr Thorburn had been issued with an ultimatum.

"The board made clear that, despite these not being views that Andrew Thorburn has expressed personally and that were also made prior to him taking up his role as chairman, he couldn't continue to serve in his dual roles at the Essendon Football Club and as chairman of City on the Hill," Mr Barham said.



Essendon CEO resigns just one day after being appointed following church controversy

Freedom of religion doesn't exist anymore. This appears to be the modern world's view.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Gay Australian footballer Josh Cavallo says World Cup shouldn't be going to Qatar, where homosexuality is illegal | CNN

It has been almost a year since Josh Cavallo announced he is gay, but even now he still struggles to comprehend the far-reaching impact his announcement has had -- especially as he has begun to speak out on major issues, notably the Qatar World Cup.

edition.cnn.com

A year on, Cavallo remains the only openly gay top-flight male footballer in the world –

But its still illegal In Qatar. As it is (of course) in Tonga, Samoa, PNG, and many other countries...

Nations with anti-LGBT laws: 49% Muslim, 44% Christian – Erasing 76 Crimes

76crimes.com

 

[Uk eagle]

FIFA have banned players from wearing rainbow arm bands during the world cup in Qatar as it is bringing politics into football. Anyone wearing one will be shown a yellow card and instructed to remove it. Someone must have forgot to give them their brown paper bag before checking it was ok

 

[Captain Moondog]

No alcohol, no drugs, no swearing, no ****ing.....party on.

 

[Budgie]

FIFA have banned players from wearing rainbow arm bands during the world cup in Qatar as it is bringing politics into football. Anyone wearing one will be shown a yellow card and instructed to remove it. Someone must have forgot to give them their brown paper bag before checking it was ok

Awarding the World Cup to Qatar brought politics into football. Sports washing at it's best.
Good on the English captain for wanting to wear the rainbow armband in country where homosexuality is punished with seven years in prison.

 

[maxta]

This Rainbow stuff is dragged out to the point of becoming annoying.
Personally have family and friends who represent every form of sexuality on offer and their options in this regard is none of my business - "ZERO", so I am happy to support their choices regardless of what they are, as long as they are good ppl is all that really matters.
Also have the same scenario with family and friends with various religious beliefs in many categories and again, it's all good providing they are good ppl.
The 1 thing I don't like, is being harassed by individuals wanting to force feed me into sharing their opinions.
This jersey crap was more a mistake from Manly hierarchy than any players not conforming and it's just about time to leave it all alone and as fans be happy the players all wear the Seaeagles emblem.....I thought it was the footy we supported, not some political agenda - leave it alone FFS.

 

[manly al]

Plenty of opportunity for any high profile sports people or anyone and within reason to express or promote an opinion or support for any subject in the general public arena . Doesn "t have to extend to an actual sporting event or game stage playing situation . Especially again at a high profile or high concentration spectator or viewing forum . First and foremost priority and obligation is to play and perform for their individual sporting team and country ,not to detract from the occasion with some polarizing and in some cases quite divisive social or political cause .

 

[Budgie]

Plenty of opportunity for any high profile sports people or anyone and within reason to express or promote an opinion or support for any subject in the general public arena . Doesn "t have to extend to an actual sporting event or game stage playing situation . Especially again at a high profile or high concentration spectator or viewing forum . First and foremost priority and obligation is to play and perform for their individual sporting team and country ,not to detract from the occasion with some polarizing and in some cases quite divisive social or political cause .

What are your thoughts on crosses and 'Jesus' on wristbands, pointing to the sky after a try, and prayer circles on the field after a game?
These are the things I have a problem with. If there's to be none, so be it. But if these are allowed and they promote religions which discriminate in many ways, then it is political and should also be banned. Yet, for some reason it is not.
Not having a go at you Al, just a question (and a statement actually but who's counting ).

 

[BOZO]

This Rainbow stuff is dragged out to the point of becoming annoying.
Personally have family and friends who represent every form of sexuality on offer and their options in this regard is none of my business - "ZERO", so I am happy to support their choices regardless of what they are, as long as they are good ppl is all that really matters.
Also have the same scenario with family and friends with various religious beliefs in many categories and again, it's all good providing they are good ppl.
The 1 thing I don't like, is being harassed by individuals wanting to force feed me into sharing their opinions.
This jersey crap was more a mistake from Manly hierarchy than any players not conforming and it's just about time to leave it all alone and as fans be happy the players all wear the Seaeagles emblem.....I thought it was the footy we supported, not some political agenda - leave it alone FFS.

Thank you for the The most sensible and logical post @maxta

Further more to your Brilliant Post

Sport is the only Religion that is accepted by all and is not offensive to None
Lets stop Politically prostituting our Indiscriminative game because all it does is take the focus off the game all come to watch in peace and harmony

The fact is before Penns Exclusive Dumb Rainbow Marketing at Manly
We had no death threats , and Division amongst straights , Gays , blacks , whites , Moslems or Jews

I respect Mr Penn for his loyalty and dedication and contribution to our club and will always be grateful
But if Mr Penn pulls another stupid Marketing stunt like that
I will personally front him up as a responsible club Member and tell him what a dope he is at his face and at the next Manly game he fronts
I wont be Violent but I will be very verbal because I care about the unity of all Manly people and the Importance this is for the strength of our Legendary club