Manly conundrums

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

Tooves would be as good as any coach if he had the players.As for susan that was a brilliant post well summed up.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Very interesting post by Susan.

Two things are certain. One is that there is more to a team than the talents of various individuals, and we are not functioning as a team, injuries or no injuries.

Two is that we are in the middle of a period of significant change. As outsiders to some extent or other, we don't know what is changing and what will stay, we don't know the blueprint let alone whether it is achievable.

Susan's post provides an interesting possible future [maybe more than 'possible' ]

Like most others I'll feel better when I know what's going on, but I am confident based on our history that we'll be back strongly very soon.

 

[Red Pill]

Re Hiku I don't doubt his ability but in today's game being a footballer and not an athlete goes against you( which is a total joke). it is hard to see where he fits in the modern game. He lacks the acceleration the great fullbacks and three quarters have and struggles to read the play in defence(his defence is great at fullback because he doesn't need to make decisions). He could prove me wrong but I don't think he is creative enough or has the kicking game to be a 6. I am also loathe to cut players mid contract unless they are happy to change clubs (for obvious reasons)Is he contracted till 16 or 17?
In terms of who we replace Toovey with,the modern game also does not work like that.Interim coaches are the norm and to be honest can the results be any worse.Cutting Toovey won't be done because there is someone better ready to go,it will be done to make a statement that change is in the air.Agree with it or not that is how this stuff always unfolds.

Cutting 2V for the sake of change is straight out the the Parra don't matter management model. Just plain dumb I say! Gee Wayne Bennett coached a team last year that nearly won the spoon.

 

[Fluffy]

if we change coaches once every 3 weeks we can get 7 more wins this year which should be enough to avoid the spoon

 

[Frank]

I am over this season. It was over before it began. The opening post and a couple of responses make this the most sensible thread I have read in the last 6 months. I really feel for Tooves because I think he could have been a long term coach for us. He has basically had both his legs amputated by all the bull**** happening beyond his control. However, the most important objective for our club this season is for us to avoid the spoon. I am afraid that is all our season has become. I am of the belief that there are elements within the club and quite possibly in the playing group that would love nothing more than this to happen.

To that end we need to release all the cancerous, treachorous, pieces of trash from our roster.

And then release the hounds.

 

[susan]

Fluff. I hate coaches copping the blame for everything. It is totally ridiculous when u look at all the moving parts that make a club. My comments re Toovey are what I am sure will happen, not that I agree with it happening and how it happens.

 

[BOZO]

Very true. The forwards haven't been great but they held their own against the Storm and the Dogs and have at least been trying to play to the best of their limited abilities. Same can't be said for our star-studded backline or our million-dollar halves, who have been terrible in attack and turnstiles in defence. We should have beaten the Dogs. We should have beaten the Dragons. We didn't. Even yesterday we had enough opportunities to score plenty of points. Again, we didn't.

He don't want forwards who are only capable to hold their own We want forwards that have the ability to make it their own and until we get them we will not be competitive .

 

[mave]

Haha.
Brian Smith....
Haha

Is Graeme Lowe available???
Or maybe we could get The Wok to make a comeback

 

[sheridanstand78]

Dont feed the trolls, he is on here because our current form resembles their normal form.

 

[BOZO]

2V needs to go.
It's obvious players like Foran and Watmough have stated they they wanted to go to a club who's leadership was strong with great player relations.

I think we should go with Brian Smith.

You are still in the 30 YEAR PARRAMATTA WOODEN SPOON WILDERNESS What would you and your pathetic club know about leadership dick head LOL

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

He don't want forwards who are only capable to hold their own We want forwards that have the ability to make it their own and until we get them we will not be competitive .

Agreed, but that's what we've got right now and at least they're putting in some effort. The halves, on the other hand…
It's also important to remember that injuries are killing us. Without Lyon and Matai out there we're always going to struggle.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Well it's pretty obvious we need to rebuild given the amount of talent we have lost or about to lose.

Agree on Ballin, we've covered deficiencies in our 9 's attacking ability with other areas, but without DCE and Foz next year that can't continue. Need to give Hodges a go off the bench this year to see how that balance can work, if at all.

Buhrer isn't as good as Gift, not many are to be honest. However he's got something to offer moving forward.

Hiku I have time for, see him as a centre long term. Reminds me of Justin Hodges in style and Hodges isn't the most lightning centre getting around, pace isn't everything. He is worth persisting with, but can we sit him behind Killer and Skivvi for another 2 years ??

Snake is a bit of a problem. Not sure where his head is at currently, I'm not that well connected to be in the know as to whether he is happy or not. I thought at the time that him jumping into the circle after the Storm game was a positive sign that he was on board, but if what they reported he said was right than it could be seen as being a smartar$e and detracting from Tooves efforts. I hope he is on board as I'd hate to think of him as being part of the cancer that has consumed the joint.

The forwards are the real problem at the moment, we do not have anyone who is really dynamic and can provide impact. Blow a game open with some real line bending/breaking runs. I like Lui and Turbo efforts this year, the rest have been inconsistent. Lawrence being out is a big blow to our punch.

The one good thing in this whole scenario is that we are cashed up and ready to go. The big thing in our favour is that if they decide to change the interchange rules and we know that now then we can build a team with that in mind. The game dynamic will change if the interchange is reduced and you don't want to be stuck with a whole heap of lumbering behemoths who run out of steam at the back end of games.

Tooves - well the guy is a true club legend so whatever happens to him needs to be respectful and dignified. Doesn't look good for him, whatever the reason, whether it is lack of board support or lack of player support the only way he will turn it around is with results.

 

[Red Pill]

One thing that comforts me while we go through this transition is we have Parramatta to learn from. They have been in limbo for over 20 years! and will find another way to implode. They have written the not to do! Rule book many times over!

 

[manlywarringah]

I think it's simple.

Tooves stays until his contract is finished (end of 2016) and gets to pick players who are putting in this year. I'd imagine Foran would get his finger out if he was told he goes down to NSW Cup.

It also means he gets a chance to work with a better pack after the signings we make this year.

I'd imagine our team will look pretty good after we buy a few players to bolster our pack and hopefully some good halves.

This year is gone already and it would mean Tooves has next year to make a go of it with players who want to play.

We all know the Penn's are adverse to spending money they don't want and they'd have to pay Tooves out if they did sack him. That money can be saved to give the poor bastard some more support in coaching or medical staff. I'd say we'd have one of the smallest back room staff to work with.

I don't think it's fair to punt Tooves with all our injury concerns after where he has taken us since Hasler left.

Dropping Foran shows that our team can't be held to ransom by the players and gives our coach back a bit more control.

I'm behind Tooves all the way and am desperate for Lyon and Matai at least to come back. We also miss Taufua's strong runs which we always got a good roll on from.

Stay strong and back the coach over the non performing players!

 

[Utility Player]

On a side note anyone else disturbed by the gray in snakes stubble, in the presses it looks like he has spit on his face.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

My comments re Toovey are what I am sure will happen, not that I agree with it happening and how it happens.

Hopefully Toovey is not blindsided with the news while appearing on NRL 360.

 

[mjb136]

On a side note anyone else disturbed by the gray in snakes stubble, in the presses it looks like he has spit on his face.

Have noticed that. Looks suspiciously like something else

 

[ManlyMagic]

1 Tooves,love him or hate him is gone.The club will be 1 and 9 in a month and if Tooves is to get the respectful exit he deserves it needs to be done now and not after another month of losses when he will be copping a lot more rubbish than he deserves.if he so desires I hope he stays involved in our club.I also hope the club doesn't go down the Tim Sheens / Brian Smith dinasour route to replace him.The are more Robinsons out there.We need to find one.

2. The halves.The 6 must go now.He has disrespected the famous no.6 for too long.The other bloke is trying but other than 20 minutes against Melbourne he has been ordinary..I am ambivalent here.Send him packing or he plays.We may win a game or 2 on his back at some stage and that may help out re the spoon.Wouldnt concern me either way what they do with him.I hope the club goes the way of chasing a young turk combined with an experienced hand in the 6 and 7. It is too tough a game to go with youth in both positions.

3 Matt Ballin Like everyone I love this bloke,especially after the carry on by the million dollar babies, but if the club thinks playing him for 80 minutes till the end of 2017 is the way forward they are deluding themselves.Without the superstars there his lack of creativity will be exposed.He has zero impact in the red zone.We need some spark out of dummy half in a big hurry.

4 Peta Hiku. I just can't work out what to do with this bloke and given his recent upgrade he is not an inexpensive player.His best spot seems to be as a safe defensive style fullback as per the 2013 Roosters semi but in the modern day game he is not in the same class as Many of the top custodians running around.He has skill but I just don't see them as being sufficient to be an elite player in a particular position.The club needs to put him on the market in my opinion.We have other more pressing issues.

5. Jamie Buhrer. Probably our best forward but is he overrated ? The comparisons to Gift are way off the mark and probably come about because of the small size at similar stages of their career.Gift at his best is tough as nails and a great ball player?Jamie is a runner and a good player but not good enough to build a pack around.We need some dynamic ball runners in the back row as badly as we need halves.In a much better pack Jamie can shine.

6. Jake T and Ligii Sao have the talent to be top flight props.Give them a whole season to develop.Other than Symonds and Lui the rest of our pack are reserve graders unless BJ fully recovers from his injury.The club needs to get its head out of the sand and recognise that.

7 In Gutherson and Tom T we have some fantastic outside back talent.It is too late for Clinton this year but the other bloke needs to play every week.We need to learn something from his debut yesterday.In a rebuilding phase there is zero to lose in trying new talent.A team of champions for a decade meant we could take out time.Not any more! The twenties look like they have some great back talent as well which augers well.

8. Snake,Matai and Killer I thought Snake looked good in the first 2 rounds but his attitude since has been ordinary like many others.I think he has enough left in him to be valuable when the coach is changed,which is such a sad thing to say.Give Stevie his transfer if he wants it.He has earned it.We need the cash to spend in more important areas and if we released Hiku as well our war chest may be big enough.We have to find almost an entire forward pack.Killer is a must keep in a rebuild phase.Great skipper and will be invaluable in tough times ahead.
9 If Gutho ain't good enough find a f...ing goal kicker.


W e are now a serious contender for the spoon given our draw and attitude.The club need to be decisive.Their approach this year has the smell of a total clean out and rebuild about it.I hope so,because that may mean they have a definite plan.The only other explanation is madness.I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a little while longer.Toovey and the halves fate must be sorted now.

Sounds like you want a new coach and different players wouldn't it be easier for you just to support a different team?

 

[Technical Coach]

Re Hiku I don't doubt his ability but in today's game being a footballer and not an athlete goes against you( which is a total joke). it is hard to see where he fits in the modern game. He lacks the acceleration the great fullbacks and three quarters have and struggles to read the play in defence(his defence is great at fullback because he doesn't need to make decisions). He could prove me wrong but I don't think he is creative enough or has the kicking game to be a 6. I am also loathe to cut players mid contract unless they are happy to change clubs (for obvious reasons)Is he contracted till 16 or 17?
In terms of who we replace Toovey with,the modern game also does not work like that.Interim coaches are the norm and to be honest can the results be any worse.Cutting Toovey won't be done because there is someone better ready to go,it will be done to make a statement that change is in the air.Agree with it or not that is how this stuff always unfolds.

At the time Hiku was retained I could not see much benefit from both perspectives especially Hiku---I could see his career stagnating and his future value in the next contract negotiations not increasing much----he will be seen as a safe all rounder with a touch of class.

Stewart was still years away from retirement so fullback was never going to happen, lacks the speed and explosiveness to be a consistent threat in the outside backs.

To me people laughed at me for having this off the cuff view but with his beer belly potential he might have potential as a backrower(but then again lacks explosiveness and aggression) with footwork and offload skills.