Questions and Answers

[vidmar]

Ok....There have been a few posts of late that have asked a number of questions and raised a number of points regarding the Football Club and similar so I thought it worth clarifying a few points and answering some of them as best I can.

In way of a disclaimer I am NOT an official spokesperson - rather I am a passionate fan, a Travelling Supportah, a season ticket holder, a Football Club member and a member of the Leagues Club.

I do however give of my own spare time to do a variety of volunteer work as best I can for both the Sea Eagles and the Football Club and as a result of that, following the team and taking time to ask questions of our officials and keeping abreast of the various initiatives that involve the club I feel able to be able to provide some information that may help others.

1. Games away from Brookvale...The Football Club DOES NOT DECIDE THIS - it is at the discretion of and fully decided by the Sea Eagles ie the private owners.

The charter of the Football Club SPECIFICALLY makes a point that at least 10 games MUST be played at Brookvale - an agreement was reached when the owners bought the majority of the shares of the club that 2 games MAY be played elsewhere as it was argued by the franchise that this offered the potential of increased revenue raising.

If the Sea Eagles wanted to play any other games away from Brooky...ie Perth, Adelaide, Auckland or wherever then they must apply for this and get approval from the Football Club...this motion would be put to a vote of its members...

No Football Club and the constraint is removed

2. Ticket prices - As the franchise (The Sea Eagles) holds the NRL license and is fully responsible for game day operations - they set the ticket prices...NOT the Football Club.

Any complaint or discussion on the new season ticket prices, the inclusion of the 2 trial matches as part of the deal and the removal of the option for a 10 game season ticket for those not wishing to travel to Gosford needs to be taken up with the Sea Eagles NOT the Football Club.

There has been a thread on the official MWSE.com.au site specifically about this point and it has been addressed by the ADMIN of that site covering the reasons and with an offer to contact the club directly should season ticket holders wish to discuss further so go and have a look and make your mind up as a result of that. (My own family GA ticket has gone up $100 a year as well but as that means an increase of less than a couple of dollars per person per game whilst not happy at having to fork out the extra money I will live with it and renew.)

That said I can’t make a decision for others but wanted to clarify where the decision was made.

3. The Football Club was described elsewhere as a “parasite” – this is quite ridiculous...The Football Club derives NO financial support in any way shape or form from the Sea Eagles.

It is in fact the opposite – the charter of the Football Club specifically states that any monies raised by the Football Club are to be used to buy shares from the private entity.

Admittedly, as there have been a number of issues that have affected the membership numbers of the FC this has not been as extensive as one would hope however plans are a foot to rectify this.

There was mention that the Football Club is a sinking ship – again not the case...due to the renewed focus on promoting the importance of Football Club membership it has seen a number of new members who have already signed up for the 2010 membership (it runs from January – December)..As more people understand the importance and through a process of better education and increased promotion then this is expected to continue to grow.

4. Why is the Football Club membership separate from the Season ticket membership and administered as such?

When the Screaming Eagles membership scheme was launched the option for Football Club membership had negligible promotion (it was a small tick box on the application form) and the Sea Eagles didn’t have the resources the administer or communicate with Football Club members (Two entities remember) so the admin was passed back to the Leagues Club to run with.
As a result FC membership fell (through lack of promotion and confusion - There were a number of instances where season ticket holders thought they were still FC club members etc.) so it was decided to bring the FC membership promotion “in-house” to better promote and administer (using the resources of the Leagues Club) which is part of my reason for sticking my hand up to help.

5. Why join the Football Club
I have spoken with Dan and thank him for his offer to include more details on this site regarding the importance of membership of both the Sea Eagles AND the Football Club so stay tuned (This information will likely be ready in the next week)

However...in a nutshell a strong Football Club membership base which can contribute financially by buying shares, removing the need to rely upon the financial support of the 2 private owners and providing funds through grants/sponsorship will give supporters a chance to support their team financially both now and for the future.

Additionally, (And VERY importantly) Through a strong member based equity partnership it will allow supporters a greater say in club matters (The Football Club is the only entity that is answerable to its members) and greater control over such aspects of where we play, in what colours and where (The Football Club has the preference vote on these important aspects – see above re any plans to play more games away from Brooky?)

6. Screaming Eagle/Sea Eagle membership vs Football Club membership...both are vital to the current and future security of our club.

Sea Eagles membership (Season Tickets) provides a source of working capital to the club to cover the cost of having a team on the paddock in the NRL.

There has been mention of “having to pay to post on the Sea Eagles forum” – not technically true...it is a member’s forum so to post you must be a member – without supporters putting their hand in their pocket then we will not have a team – simple really.

It confuses me that people slag off News Limited but are happy to fork out big bucks for pay TV to watch Manly play but are not willing to spend $60 or so to financially support their team?

Football Club membership as explained above will allow supporters to have a greater say on the direction of our club and will ensure that the values of the club and its history are preserved and protected.

The reason that Sea Eagles members are not receiving active promotion of the Football Club is purely and simply that the Sea Eagles member’s details are not shared with the Football Club and the Sea Eagles do not promote the Football Club.

Read in to that what you will – ideally as supporters we need both entities working together for the betterment of the club and its supporters.
We are all aware of the factionalism that occurred earlier in the year for a number of reasons – some that were aired publicly, some that weren’t...however I can assure you from my dealings with a number of the executives and members of the various boards there is a very active drive to work together including new board members such as Jack Elsegood, Kerry Chrysiliou, Melinda Gainsford Taylor and Damian Smith bringing a range of skills to our combined executive.

Time will tell whether the hard work and intent bear fruit but of course we will not know unless we try?

So hopefully this will help....of course there are any number of issues to work through including the latest threat to the club staying at Brookvale Oval which affects ALL Manly supporters and to my mind this is an issue that needs ALL Manly fans to be aware of and assist as is needed in the short term future...half truths, Public condemning of our officials and snipes and renewed attempts to create factionalism by marginalising people or entities of the Manly family are counter productive and one should query the motives of the people that are pushing these particular lines.

I’m happy to hear any comments or answer any further questions as best I can or speak to officials who can but hope that this has helped some of you?

Cheers
Vidmar

 

[Cameron]

1. Games away from Brookvale...The Football Club DOES NOT DECIDE THIS - it is at the discretion of and fully decided by the Sea Eagles ie the private owners.

Sorry Vidmar that isnt correct

That call is made by the MWSE board
consisting of
2 reps from Equitiy Shareholder The Penn Family
2 reps from Equitiy Shareholder The Delmege Family (Surfside)
2 reps from the FOOTBALL CLUB
1 rep from the leagues club

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Very comprehensive Vidmar, now just sit back and wait until certain sections of this forum tear it apart and tear you down.

But never fear my Dad once said "sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you".

Those of us that are keen football fans and love this club as much as you do appreciate the work you do and the effort you have gone into to explain this fully.

 

[Matabele]

The problem with vidmar's post is that a lot of it is subjective, and vidmar seems to get upset (and you too Mark) at those who would offer a view that it is not indeed the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  It's nothing but that.

On this occasion I'll not join those ranks.  Far better people spend their time writing to Warringah council about the ridiculous motion they will be considering this week. 

 

[Ryan]

Vid, thanks for the info mate. Can I say one thing though? Grant Mayer actually told me that the reason our team currently play out of Bluetongue still, is because of decisions made by previous management (Max, and Football Club). This contract expires in 2011 (from memory), when Grant fully wanted to change it, so that local season members received better value for their buck. That being said, I was told we receive $100k per game played out of the Central Coast, so who knows...

Can I just say something to you about the membership debate thing mate, and this is all I think it should really comes down to.

First off, I will say I'm a very simple, non complicated bloke. As you probably know, I am a season ticket holder. All I would like to do, is become a member of WHATEVER group, that helps me support the team that entertains me week in, week out. That's the guys on the footy field, the great coaching staff we have, and management - i.e. The CEO etc. I want to support my MANLY Warringah Sea Eagles.

But, the truth be told, the whole, be a member of this, be a member of that confuses me still (and I appreciate your great efforts to provide information) - but like I say - I'm basic.

Can The Leagues Club, The Football Club, The Football team as a united group release ONE statement that basically suggests this:-
"To support your team, our preference would be for you to XYZ".

That's all, and I would do it. List all the benefits together. Maybe a brochure that highlights all that.

All this stuff with Kirsch is really disturbing already. I already lost one League team - losing Manly to another demographic would be unbearable.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the info Vidmar.  It is good to have this information as I am sure that there are quite a few people who like me don't fully understand all the workings of the FC and sea eagles. 

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

As to getting upset at different peoples views. not at all after all that's what makes the world go round, especially if they are informed views with contructive alternatives then go for it BUT I do get upset when people just sit on the sidelines and take "pot shots" at people who have just been having a go.

You don't like them, then do something about it, stand for the board, attempt to make change (or improve communications such as Vidmar is trying to do) but sitting in the background, hidden behind a computer screen and stabbing people in the back IS (in my opionion) just showing how weak someone really is!!

And we all know that "strong in words does not make the person strong in character"!!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

5. Why join the Football Club

. . . Additionally, (And VERY importantly) Through a strong member based equity partnership it will allow supporters a greater say in club matters

Vidmar I was pleased to meet you briefly before the Titans game.

If what you can say on this topic is not as an official spokesman, I take it that progress is a little sluggish on the transparency/accountability fronts?

 

[Matabele]

As to getting upset at different peoples views. not at all after all that's what makes the world go round, especially if they are informed views with contructive alternatives then go for it BUT I do get upset when people just sit on the sidelines and take \"pot shots\" at people who have just been having a go.

You don't like them, then do something about it, stand for the board, attempt to make change (or improve communications such as Vidmar is trying to do) but sitting in the background, hidden behind a computer screen and stabbing people in the back IS (in my opionion) just showing how weak someone really is!!

And we all know that \"strong in words does not make the person strong in character\"!!

I find quite ludicrous the assumption that one must stand for the board and attend every game before one is allowed to have an opinion.  As said elsewhere, not everyone is at a station of life where this is possible, but it should not diminish their opinion or perspective.

Your continual snide remarks and personal attacks do not disguise the fact that you're not prepared to answer hard questions of your own perspectives of the veracity or otherwise of the FC, and their contribution to the current factionalism.

So once more for the road, perhaps as you have such a high opinion of the current regime, you could explain to us why Screaming Eagles has managed to gather ten times more members in half the time, for a greater package price?

 

[Fluffy]

Give it up mata and support your team

 

[Canteen Worker]

I don't want to get involved in any debate. I have been a member of both groups since the membership and then Screaming Eagles were open to supporters to join.

I am not on the inside of either group and nor do I have 'inside' info. I have been interested though that Screaming Eagle support is less than other teams such as Souths and co but at least it is growing. We did have over 60k supporters at the GF so there are a lot of fans out there that do not join for one reason or another.

As a member of the football club, apart from an opportunity to vote for the two directors, should I actually go to a meeting miles from home, there has been very little forthcoming in any way. There was some controversy when the Football Club appointed directors did not endorse either the coach and then the General manager, siding with the Delmege faction, though I am not sure what their reasons were or whether they accepted the BS that Max was quoted as agreeing with in the paper.  I did receive a few (in my view) misleading letters about keeping Manly at Brookie, when it was later revealed that they voted for two rather than one game at Northpower and it was never clear why Mayer was not supported. Being a member gave me no say in what happened and apart from some calls for an extraordinary General meeting, nothing was ever forthcoming. I reeked of the 'old guard' with their nose out of joint, when I could not see any danger to anyone changing our colours, moving away from Brookie or changing our team name.

I pay to support the club but no information to my knowledge has been given about pay back of shares - though there may be some finanacial statements accessible somewhere.

What disturbs me most is the insinuation somehow is that the two groups are opposed or feuding, when really Manly should be working together on the same song sheet. It reeks of power struggle - I thought that all ended when Grant Mayer departed the building or is there more to all this than fans are being told??

It would be nice to have one transparent body rather than this current set-up but that might be asking too much.

 

[ManlyBacker]

I think you summed up my understanding very well CW!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

. . . is there more to all this than fans are being told??

I sure hope so. 

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

"Give it up mata and support your team!!!!"

Hear hear...couldn't agree more!!

 

[missing_something]

\"Give it up mata and support your team!!!!\"

Hear hear...couldn't agree more!!

That S**t where you try and shame someone into your point of view is ridiculous, it won’t work to improve membership and it won’t help unite supporters.

I think you should have a disclaimer at the end of your post mark that states you have a financial interest in towing a certain line of support and that your opinions can help your commercial interests.

 

[Matabele]

I'll be interested to see if CW will get a considered and non-partisan response.  He's on the money for mine.

 

[vidmar]

So we see why it is so difficult to make any progress in building bridges and creating unity?

I take the time to try to answer as best I can a range of questions and correct some misconceptions as factually as I could and there are attempts to yet again turn it in to a “slag fest”

Dead set....one of the reasons I have refused to stand for the board in the past is the simple fact that it can be a thankless task as there will always be people who will take a poke and try to belittle any or all efforts to contribute.
I don’t have the time to play political bull**** and people politics...you guys read the threads so make up your own minds or feel free to ask questions and I’ll do what I can to give answers?

If anyone feels that any part of my post above in subjective or incorrect then please feel free to highlight it and correct me with facts and we will all be happy to accept that and become better educated as a result.

To answer some other points above...re games away from Gosford...yes there was a contract in place that the club had to play 2 games at Gosford (I believe it was part of the deal set up as part of the Northern Eagles Debacle – so prior to private ownership – Not because of the Football Club or the Penn or Delmege family)

That contract has now expired and as Cliffy rightly says the MWSE board (The Sea Eagles board) make the decision as to whether to take 2 of the 12 home games away from Brookie (as posted above any more than 2 games must be passed by the FC board.)

That said...as it is well publicised that there is more money to be made by playing away from Brookvale for some games and that the Sea Eagles get game day receipts (not the Football Club) then I will leave it to you to ponder who pushes hardest for those games to happen?

Re a clearer message to be published to fans regarding what memberships to purchase, I agree this is important and needs to happen.

I know that this has been a point of discussion between Bob Reilly and Scott Penn and we can all hope that the two of them can make this happen...

CW – you raise some very good points and I too was left in some state of wonder as to what was going on hence me wanting to get involved to find out more and to address some of the concerns that I (and it would appear many others) had.

I have attended 2 meetings of the FC board now the first including me tabling a list of questions and statements letting the board know some of the criticism and concern that I had and am hearing from supporters of the club and existing Football Club members.

Some of the points amazed them, some they didn’t like hearing (but to their credit they listened and have taken on board) and some they agreed with but explained mitigating circumstances (It’s fair to say there was a certain amount of battening down of hatches when the fan was hit early in the season and also for whatever reason there were times when it was thought best to keep quiet even when un-found criticism was levelled to avoid inflaming an already volatile situation for the club)

I attended a second meeting last week and a number of the points I’ve raised were addressed and strategy discussed to remediate – I’m hoping to hear the results of those discussions this week so will let you all know.

Regarding transparency and more accountability...There have been some positive steps taken already with members of the Football Club board travelling to attend a number of functions at the away games, making themselves available after home games at the Leagues Club and I know that Bob Reilly has taken it upon himself to personally call a number of fans asking them for their thoughts and answering questions.

There was also the Football Club members function at the Leagues Club prior to the Titans game and Sea Eagle Rock8 you may have seen members of the Football Club board such as Damian Smith, Bob Reilly and Peter Bryant deep in conversation with many of the people who were there.

These initiatives will continue and there will also be a concerted effort commencing this week with a range of plans to allow the wider community a better understanding of whom the Football Club is, who the board members are and what it is trying to do.

So hopefully these initiatives will allow people the opportunity to ask questions, put forward their points of view so help answer some of the questions above, address the concerns of the wider community and ensure that we all work together for the greater good of the club.

You are of course encouraged to contact Bob Reilly directly via the leagues club if you want to discuss things one on one with him (Send me a private message and I’ll be happy to pass on his contact details?)

Finally, re the question as to why the Screaming Eagles membership is larger than the Football Club from Matabele...

No side step mate and you have my details you could have called me any time to ask?

I and several others have worked on a number of initiatives with Aaron Markie the Sea Eagles membership manager to assist in process, promote the “Brand” and grow the Sea Eagles membership and the away supporters tours group (Which also helps with “member get member” initiatives).

A lot of work has gone in to it and there has been significant backing from the NRL and collectively, with the tremendous work done by the Sea Eagles back office team we have indeed seen the numbers grow significantly so thanks for pointing that out (Incidentally, although the member numbers are not the highest in the NRL the profitability and financial return for the money expended are way better than many which is a key factor – of note is that we don’t have a whole heap of “product” (seats in particular) to offer when compared with teams that have home games at Homebush for example?

I once queried why the club didn’t make all seats available for sale for season ticket sales and it was explained that doing that may give you a big cash injection pre-season but in reality we would be selling our “premium” product at a vastly reduced price so ideally the mix is a good sell of some of the seats to season ticket holders (at discount price) and then a regular income from “full fee” payers during the season.

As such Sea Eagles (Screaming Eagles) membership has been a key focus especially selling the available seats as it provides much needed revenue for the day to day running of the club and the premiership assisted enormously in the promotion of Sea Eagle membership and helped with cash flow.

The main difference between the Sea Eagles and the Football Club is that the Football Club is run by volunteers and has no permanent or dedicated membership department (Yes, other people have lives outside of a Football Club as well Matas).

Each member of the board is without exception employed in some senior executive role or directorship and their time is limited when work and family commitments are to be considered which is why I have agreed to become involved (to lend an extra pair of hands) and am actively seeking other like minded people to assist and I’m pleased to say that there are a number of people who are willing to accept the challenge of growing the FC numbers and helping their club so that is a start and from small acorns...

If you are also keen to get involved please email me at [email protected]  - I’d love to hear from you?
Cheers
Vidmar

 

[Cameron]

vid the problem i have at the moment and its not really a footy club issue its MWSE as whole is WHERE AND WHY HASNT THERE BEEN A NOISE MADE about what you have posted over here and at MSWE about the councils motions.

I dont wanna bring up the whole CEO and GM debate but one thing he was good at was manuiplating the media, imagine if someone from within the organisation came out this week and said to the tele or the daily the council is being unreasonable were off to the SFS fulltime. Imagine the emotional that would of stired up amongst fans.

I dont even think 50% of manly fans visit MWSE or here combined how are those fans gonna know about this.

Bob we would of know sweet fa if you hadnt of posted it and your not on any board or an employee of the club. My question is wheres the leadership at the moment???? It shouldnt be left up to a passionate volunter like you.

As ive posted somewhere else hopefully ill see you there tuesday night

 

[Canteen Worker]

Wasn't meant to start a slag-fest but merely to get answers to genuine questions I have. Will read your response when I get a chance and am happy to ask for answers in a more appropriate forum.

However, I think there are many of us who are asking similar type questions - so thanks Vid for you post. Response to come!!!

 

[Chip and Chase]

My situation mirrors CW's exactly and he has nailed all the concerns I have with the current membership setup. Some very good points raised there that need addressing.

However I agree wholeheartedly with Vidmar when he says

"...in a nutshell a strong Football Club membership base which can contribute financially by buying shares, removing the need to rely upon the financial support of the 2 private owners and providing funds through grants/sponsorship will give supporters a chance to support their team financially both now and for the future..."

The FC membership is the first thing that any fan who is concerned about the long term future of Manly Sea Eagles should be signing up to. The more FC members we have the more pressure the fans as a group can exert on both the FC and the Private entity. A passionate, well informed, formidably numerous FC membership base would be hard to deny. Let's face it $30.00 is hardly a budget breaking investment for something that the return on is priceless really, a financially viable Manly Sea Eagles, in which you have a share of. I'll be signing up again next year, and if you want to get the team heading in the right direction you should get on board as well.