Rebuild or Roster ALMOST there...

maxta

First Grader
Looking at the Manly team to start the season on paper, begs the question of how far off to REALLY compete with say Roosters, Storm or the best team early - Souths ??
Last weeks game against an ordinary Tigers side was hard to judge, as the attitude was good, defensive solid till they scored a lucky try and really should have been up 8-14 points which may well have changed the outcome.
Fact remains it was not a team to compete with the 3 above and a few more tbh.....
Thing is there were new players which takes time, strike weapon Tom T out with injury, a few more with potential like the growing Paseka, Waddell to come back and Fainu, who I believe is a massive talent and will show this in 2019...plus a few maybes in Cust, Anderson, Metcalfe.
Then we look further down the nest and the potential of young Hoppa, Schuster, young Trjbovic who really need preservation and could well set the platform of a VERY competitive side for years to come, with Hoppa the only 1 of these 3 to maybe debut in 2019...
Is it a rebuild when the talent is already in the system??
In a way it is, because they are not ready today, however even at full strength today when including those unavailable, add some time to gel as a team and take in Des structures that looked great where it counts last week - defensively....and it is not so bleak.
My point being at full strength, with top shelf youngsters who WILL make an impact before long, IF we landed a leader in the forwards with a sprinkle of the BK or dare I say it Watmough,maybe a (Rapana or Oates to create momentum) and add another X factor....this Manly team has plenty we can look forward to.
Only a few IFs....we RETAIN the young stars, Acquire that LEADER, stop walking under ladders with these injuries.....
What's the thoughts Silvertails....do we have the bones to build upon already in place, or is the Massive cleanout start again needed ??
 
As I stated in the other thread, I think we are two GOOD players away from competing with the best of them. Therefore, I think Des has no excuses this year, really. He has the staffing, resources, and has a very flexible cap band next season. One forward, one back:

Next season, a team like the below would be competitive (and affordable):

2020
01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Albert Hopoate
03. Euan Aitken (rumours abound)
04. Dylan Walker
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Kane Elgey
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Marty Taupau
09. Apisai Koroisou
10. Addin Fonua-Blake
11. Corey Oates
12. Curtis Sironen
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Manase Fainu
15. Kelepi Tanginoa
16. Taniela Paseka
17. Corey Waddell

Acquisitions:
+ Euan Aitken
+ Corey Oates

Extensions:
+ Lachlan Croker
+ Brendan Elliott
+ Manase Fainu
+ Tevita Funa
+ Reuben Garrick
+ Jack Gosiewski
+ Albert Hopoate
+ Lloyd Perrett
+ Toafofoa Sipley
+ Moses Suli
+ Corey Waddell
+ Dylan Walker

Released / Unsigned
+ Trent Hodkinson
+ Semisi Kioa
+ Brad Parker
+ Jorge Taufua
+ Joel Thompson

Depth
18. Cade Cust (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
19. Brendan Elliott (Utility Back)
20. Tevita Funa (Full Back / Wing / Centre)
21. Jack Gosiewski (Backrow)
22. Lloyd Perrett (Prop)
23. Lachlan Croker (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
24. Abbas Miski (Wing / Centre)
25. Luke Metcalf (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
26. Toafofoa Sipley (Prop)
27. Andy Saunders (Prop)
28. Sean Keppie (Prop / Backrow)
29. Joshua Schuster (Five Eight / Backrow)
30. Moses Suli (Wing / Centre / Utility Forward)
31. Jade Anderson (Full Back / Wing / Centre)

Other
+ Various development squad players.
 
As I stated in the other thread, I think we are two GOOD players away from competing with the best of them. Therefore, I think Des has no excuses this year, really. He has the staffing, resources, and has a very flexible cap band next season. One forward, one back:

Next season, a team like the below would be competitive (and affordable):

2020
01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Albert Hopoate
03. Euan Aitken (rumours abound)
04. Dylan Walker
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Kane Elgey
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Marty Taupau
09. Apisai Koroisou
10. Addin Fonua-Blake
11. Corey Oates
12. Curtis Sironen
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Manase Fainu
15. Kelepi Tanginoa
16. Taniela Paseka
17. Corey Waddell

Acquisitions:
+ Euan Aitken
+ Corey Oates

Extensions:
+ Lachlan Croker
+ Brendan Elliott
+ Manase Fainu
+ Tevita Funa
+ Reuben Garrick
+ Jack Gosiewski
+ Albert Hopoate
+ Lloyd Perrett
+ Toafofoa Sipley
+ Moses Suli
+ Corey Waddell
+ Dylan Walker

Released / Unsigned
+ Trent Hodkinson
+ Semisi Kioa
+ Brad Parker
+ Jorge Taufua
+ Joel Thompson

Depth
18. Cade Cust (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
19. Brendan Elliott (Utility Back)
20. Tevita Funa (Full Back / Wing / Centre)
21. Jack Gosiewski (Backrow)
22. Lloyd Perrett (Prop)
23. Lachlan Croker (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
24. Abbas Miski (Wing / Centre)
25. Luke Metcalf (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
26. Toafofoa Sipley (Prop)
27. Andy Saunders (Prop)
28. Sean Keppie (Prop / Backrow)
29. Joshua Schuster (Five Eight / Backrow)
30. Moses Suli (Wing / Centre / Utility Forward)
31. Jade Anderson (Full Back / Wing / Centre)

Other
+ Various development squad players.
I don't think an Aitken type player comes if walker remains
 
What concerns me with our current set-up with Blacktown is how do the 13 NRL Sea Eagles that are not selected in the starting 17 get a game? Take out those injured, but there are 7-10 players each week who should be playing Reserve Grade (laughingly called the Manly Workers). But that doesn't seem to happen.
Blacktown selects its 17 and seems to ignore the left-over Sea Eagles.
Is this association with Blacktown working? Results for both Blacktown and the Sea Eagles would suggest 'NO".
How long is there an arrangement with Blacktown?
 
2 quality outside backs.
Our forward pack is strong, maybe an organising 5/8, but let's give Elgey a chance.
But 2 quality outside backs at the least would get us into the 8 imo...
 
I think we have a lot of potential in the roster and some players there who are already top class. We should theoretically be good enough to challenge if one or two guys emerge this season.

That said, I do believe Api and Marty are highly over-rated. Api's service out of dummy half is just not up to NRL standard in my view. His passes go behind the playmakers too often when we are looking to get on the front foot. Our players catch the ball flat footed too often. He also struggled to draw in the markers to allow the forwards to get a roll on and target the second defenders. He is a bit of an unpredictable enigma which is great for the highlight reels but complicates things for those around him.

Marty is good at gaining metres and popping offloads but I don't know if that's the style of football that's going to win games these days. The better teams are focused on completed sets and fast play the balls with props taught to get to the ground on the bellies and play the ball quickly. Teams like Parramatta (traditionally) and the Warriors would suit Marty more where they like to risk offloads and sacrifice consistency for hot and cold streaks. Sometimes Marty can be guilty of being lazy and cumbersome in defence as well. Having Marty and AFB headlining the same pack is a little redundant and the props they rotate with are reserve grade material. In my view one of these two needs to move to the bench for middle of the game impact and we need to insert another Jake like solid prop with a good workrate and defence.
 
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What concerns me with our current set-up with Blacktown is how do the 13 NRL Sea Eagles that are not selected in the starting 17 get a game? Take out those injured, but there are 7-10 players each week who should be playing Reserve Grade (laughingly called the Manly Workers). But that doesn't seem to happen.
Blacktown selects its 17 and seems to ignore the left-over Sea Eagles.
Is this association with Blacktown working? Results for both Blacktown and the Sea Eagles would suggest 'NO".
How long is there an arrangement with Blacktown?
We need Manly to explain how reserve grade works now 🙄

@The Wheel please clarify this at the next Members Council
 
As I stated in the other thread, I think we are two GOOD players away from competing with the best of them. Therefore, I think Des has no excuses this year, really. He has the staffing, resources, and has a very flexible cap band next season. One forward, one back:

Next season, a team like the below would be competitive (and affordable):

2020
01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Albert Hopoate
03. Euan Aitken (rumours abound)
04. Dylan Walker
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Kane Elgey
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Marty Taupau
09. Apisai Koroisou
10. Addin Fonua-Blake
11. Corey Oates
12. Curtis Sironen
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Manase Fainu
15. Kelepi Tanginoa
16. Taniela Paseka
17. Corey Waddell

Acquisitions:
+ Euan Aitken
+ Corey Oates

Extensions:
+ Lachlan Croker
+ Brendan Elliott
+ Manase Fainu
+ Tevita Funa
+ Reuben Garrick
+ Jack Gosiewski
+ Albert Hopoate
+ Lloyd Perrett
+ Toafofoa Sipley
+ Moses Suli
+ Corey Waddell
+ Dylan Walker

Released / Unsigned
+ Trent Hodkinson
+ Semisi Kioa
+ Brad Parker
+ Jorge Taufua
+ Joel Thompson

Depth
18. Cade Cust (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
19. Brendan Elliott (Utility Back)
20. Tevita Funa (Full Back / Wing / Centre)
21. Jack Gosiewski (Backrow)
22. Lloyd Perrett (Prop)
23. Lachlan Croker (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
24. Abbas Miski (Wing / Centre)
25. Luke Metcalf (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
26. Toafofoa Sipley (Prop)
27. Andy Saunders (Prop)
28. Sean Keppie (Prop / Backrow)
29. Joshua Schuster (Five Eight / Backrow)
30. Moses Suli (Wing / Centre / Utility Forward)
31. Jade Anderson (Full Back / Wing / Centre)

Other
+ Various development squad players.
As I stated in the other thread, I think we are two GOOD players away from competing with the best of them. Therefore, I think Des has no excuses this year, really. He has the staffing, resources, and has a very flexible cap band next season. One forward, one back:

Next season, a team like the below would be competitive (and affordable):

2020
01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Albert Hopoate
03. Euan Aitken (rumours abound)
04. Dylan Walker
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Kane Elgey
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Marty Taupau
09. Apisai Koroisou
10. Addin Fonua-Blake
11. Corey Oates
12. Curtis Sironen
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Manase Fainu
15. Kelepi Tanginoa
16. Taniela Paseka
17. Corey Waddell

Acquisitions:
+ Euan Aitken
+ Corey Oates

Extensions:
+ Lachlan Croker
+ Brendan Elliott
+ Manase Fainu
+ Tevita Funa
+ Reuben Garrick
+ Jack Gosiewski
+ Albert Hopoate
+ Lloyd Perrett
+ Toafofoa Sipley
+ Moses Suli
+ Corey Waddell
+ Dylan Walker

Released / Unsigned
+ Trent Hodkinson
+ Semisi Kioa
+ Brad Parker
+ Jorge Taufua
+ Joel Thompson

Depth
18. Cade Cust (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
19. Brendan Elliott (Utility Back)
20. Tevita Funa (Full Back / Wing / Centre)
21. Jack Gosiewski (Backrow)
22. Lloyd Perrett (Prop)
23. Lachlan Croker (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
24. Abbas Miski (Wing / Centre)
25. Luke Metcalf (Half Back / Five Eight / Hooker)
26. Toafofoa Sipley (Prop)
27. Andy Saunders (Prop)
28. Sean Keppie (Prop / Backrow)
29. Joshua Schuster (Five Eight / Backrow)
30. Moses Suli (Wing / Centre / Utility Forward)
31. Jade Anderson (Full Back / Wing / Centre)

Other
+ Various development squad players.
I agree with most but i don't think perrett will be here and sipley needs game time to see if he is worth re signing. Other than that it looks really strong.
Release perrett sipley parker taufua Thompson and Walker.
Buy the best forward we can, add aitken and some smart buys to replace the others and we look good
 
I agree with most but i don't think perrett will be here and sipley needs game time to see if he is worth re signing. Other than that it looks really strong.
Release perrett sipley parker taufua Thompson and Walker.
Buy the best forward we can, add aitken and some smart buys to replace the others and we look good
I like it - Very sharp analysis there Robbo - sums it up perfectly, my other addition of Hodgko to be released....if that's possible ??
 
I think you nailed it Maxta. The young talent is there. It’s what you do with them that matters.

I just cannot see any reason to keep picking guys with zero upside like Hodko , Parker , Perret , JetSki etc. Thry are either past it or not first graders( Perret has the talent but ????).

I like the fact Des has put Waddell and Fainu straight into team this week. Shows he knows he has to experiment.

We are going to lose a lot of games this year so you may as well get some value out of it. Garrick should take Parker’s spot soon, Anderson in on the wing later in the year, Fainu to start at 9. Api is not a 9 who can run a young side around the field. He can hit and produce a bit of brilliance so use him at the back end of halves off the bench.
I like the look of Sipley.He needs minutes as does Tangles.Hoppa is the wildcard. If he’s as good as people say he solves a lot of problems.

Recruit a try scoring edge backrower, a modern big fast winger who can catch and an elite centre and we can mix it with big guys.
 
I think you nailed it Maxta. The young talent is there. It’s what you do with them that matters.

I just cannot see any reason to keep picking guys with zero upside like Hodko , Parker , Perret , JetSki etc. Thry are either past it or not first graders( Perret has the talent but ????).

I like the fact Des has put Waddell and Fainu straight into team this week. Shows he knows he has to experiment.

We are going to lose a lot of games this year so you may as well get some value out of it. Garrick should take Parker’s spot soon, Anderson in on the wing later in the year, Fainu to start at 9. Api is not a 9 who can run a young side around the field. He can hit and produce a bit of brilliance so use him at the back end of halves off the bench.
I like the look of Sipley.He needs minutes as does Tangles.Hoppa is the wildcard. If he’s as good as people say he solves a lot of problems.

Recruit a try scoring edge backrower, a modern big fast winger who can catch and an elite centre and we can mix it with big guys.
From what I can make out Hoppa Jrn and Anderson have yet to play a match this season. If they are injured how come they are not listed on the official website among our casualties?
 
We do have great talent coming through but with an already young squad as is. Can we really expect all these young kids to be 1st grade standard week in week out straight away? How many players 22 years old and under can run on the field with?
 
Anderson, Hopoate , Miski are not in our top 30 .

Top 29 squad

Daly Cherry-Evans, Cade Cust, Kane Elgey, Brendan Elliot, Manase Fainu, Addin Fonua-Blake, Tevita Funa, Reuben Garrick, Jack Gosiewski, Trent Hodkinson, *Albert Hopoate*, Brian Kelly, Semisi Kioa, Api Koroisau, Brad Parker, Taniela Paseka, Lloyd Perrett, Toafofoa Sipley, Curtis Sironen, Moses Suli, Kelepi Tanginoa, Jorge Taufua, Martin Taupau, Joel Thompson, Jake Trbojevic, Tom Trbojevic, Corey Waddell, Dylan Walker, Frank Winterstein

Development players

*Jade Anderson*, Lachlan Croker, Sean Keppie, Luke Metcalf, Haumole Olakau'atu

Obviously Kelly and Winterstein are no longer in the 29 so we have two vacancies for that group. My understanding of the rules is that development players can be selected in first grade later in the year (clarification needed)
 

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