Some perspective needed

[Mark from Brisbane]

Righto, before I get shot down in flames, yes I was disappointed in yesterdays result as well, my third trip (at some expense) to Brookvale for 2010 and not one win amongst them.

BUT, am I "gutted", not going to be a member in 2011, never going to support the boys again....hell no.

We have had "the year from hell" as far as injuries go and add to that more suspensions than usual (perhaps as a result of frustrations) AND many refs decisions that have not gone our way (many that were game changing), so it probably just "hasn't been our year".

We were "behind the eight ball" as soon as Brett was injured in the first game, which added to the Wolfman already being gone for the season before touching a ball....our two most potent weapons not available for an entire year.

Add to that two brand new (and very young) halves and it was always going to be a tough year.

I for one have never really expected much more (from this year) than we got, so unlike many I think making the 8 (just) has been an achievement (considering all things)

We have had some great wins (Dragons / Storm at their home / Warriors in NZ to name a few) and the MWTS have had a ball all year (win or lose), oh sure plenty of miserable losses as well but that's football.

There's plenty on here "wanting answers", "calling for Des's head", "wanting to sack Bailey" and the list goes on and on and on.

Yes it's fair to rant and rave BUT do NOT lose perspective, you cannot win every year, and to be 100% honest we have had some pretty bloody good years in the last 5, and you just can't compare 2007-2008 when the team that Crusher/Des "built" to win a Grand Final were at their zenith.

And let's face it, it could be far far worse, you could be supporting the Sharks or North Queensland and THEN you'd really have something to complain about.

So vent if you wish BUT at the end of the week this team still needs our support and after all you are still Manly fans!!

 

[Ralphie]

Mark, I quite agree with your sentiments and I haven't heard anyone say they won't be supporting the club.

What people are really asking is how it is that we have declined so much in such a short time. Our big name players (Jamie excepted) have on average performed well below their best throughout 2009 & 2010. With the squad largely unchanged next year, probably weaker if anything, all people can see is another year of mediocrity.

Blind Freddy can see that we are short on speed and short on a good quality prop and it is more than a little frustrating to see other clubs able to continue building their squads whilst we seem to be on a steady slide.

 

[WAMF]

Well said Mark.
The team does still need our support.
That doesn't excuse the 40-50 minute performances we have seen from our team week in, week out this year.
It's ok to use injuries as an excuse ( to a point) but for those players that do take the field, they should be going for the full 80 or how ever long they are out on the paddock for. We have not seen this in 2010.
I think we as members and supporters have every to right to feel disappointed by the 'on' and 'off' field performances.

I personally blame Chris Bailey

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I don't disagree with the above sentiments, but as I say you do need to add perspective.

The trouble we have is we had such a fantastic 2007-2008 and that's where the bar is, and whilst the aim is for us to reach these standards again I am not sure it can happen every year.

And as for Bailey, I thought apart from one dumb pass that he played quite well yesterday, the pass he through to Jamie to score in the corner (which was right in front of where I was sitting) was a ripper. But I agree he's been poor for most of the season.

 

[MPC75]

If we were at full strenght like most in the 8, we would be in the top 4, simple as that. I am excited about our future, we have blooded a few young guys this year and hopefully we will see a fit Snake and Wolfman return next year.

It could be worse, you could be a Parra supporter. Weren't they tipped to win the comp this year?

 

[Liueli of Brookvale]

You can't win every game.. But you can have a bloody good go. Some players, I feel, haven't given 100% and this is what disappoints me the most.

And on a side note. Manly should try and recruit more players with young families. We need to attract another BK, Beaver, Steve Price, or Civoniceva type of player. A Born leader.

Don't get me wrong, JL is doing a fine job, but I feel he could do with some help.. And I don't rate JK.

 

[The Who]

Mark, you are right on many grounds.
My 'beef' is about the selection policy. Des picked the same team every week when it was obvious we needed to make changes. The definition of madness is expecting a different outcome when you repeat the same experiment.
It was also obvious that we were playing in a boring, conservative way hoping for opposition mistakes, and we were fading in almost every second half. We all knew the problem, but nothing different was tried to rectify the situation.
We lost several matches after being dominant. That was disappointing. Also the way T-Rex - our X-factor - refused to get involved. I don;t think Bailey is a first-grader, but I must say he had a crack, unlike T-Rex who wouldn't go looking for the ball. We needed him to get involved because I do think he could have turned plenty of matches by showing some passion.
Anyway, that's the way it goes.
I'm also mystified that all other teams seem to be able to buy players yet we are told we have reached our cap. That doesn't ring true to me.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Barry, could it be we don't have any money to actually buy players??

No major sponsor in 2011
Attendances down
Merchandise sales down (my assumption with this)

I would hesitate a guess (absolutely zero inside knowledge here) that financially we wouldn't be too dissimilar to the Sharks.

 

[Utility Player]

We have had \"the year from hell\" as far as injuries go and add to that more suspensions than usual (perhaps as a result of frustrations) AND many refs decisions that have not gone our way (many that were game changing), so it probably just \"hasn't been our year\".

I agree totally Mark, If you look at 2008 & 2009 our 3 most potent attacking weapons were Snake, Killer and Ox. In 2009 we lost Snake for most of the year and and finished 5th, in 2010 we only had Lyon & finished 8th.

You just can't conjure up a replacement for marquee players, and it takes time to develop new ones. If you look at the competition over the last 12 years or so,  no team (the cheats were the only ones to come close) have been able to win consecutive titles.

 

[The Who]

Barry, could it be we don't have any money to actually buy players??

No major sponsor in 2011
Attendances down
Merchandise sales down (my assumption with this)

I would hesitate a guess (absolutely zero inside knowledge here) that financially we wouldn't be too dissimilar to the Sharks.

That has to be the case. The club keeps saying we at at cap level, but I posed this question to 'Lowie' when his column first started and it has never been answered. I could understand if the club was broke and simply said... we are not at the cap limit but we are at the limit of what we can spend.

If that's the case then we better batten down for some grim seasons ahead.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

People need to understand that if (for example) you took the following players out of St Choke then how good would they have been in 2010.

No Boyd and no Morris (makes up for Snake and Wolfie)

They then lose Creagh for the finals (through suspension)

And lose Soward through injury.

I rest my case!!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

[quote author=Mark from Brisbane link=topic=185109.msg291088#msg291088 date=1283736737]
Barry, could it be we don't have any money to actually buy players??

No major sponsor in 2011
Attendances down
Merchandise sales down (my assumption with this)

I would hesitate a guess (absolutely zero inside knowledge here) that financially we wouldn't be too dissimilar to the Sharks.

That has to be the case. The club keeps saying we at at cap level, but I posed this question to 'Lowie' when his column first started and it has never been answered. I could understand if the club was broke and simply said... we are not at the cap limit but we are at the limit of what we can spend.

If that's the case then we better batten down for some grim seasons ahead.
[/quote]

Yes but don't forget this was what it was like in 2001-2-3-4, we then started building again in 2005 and made the finals (although eliminated first week) in 2006.

I think these things happen in cycles, St George have been building and have a side that "should" win this year, and possibly could still be at the top in 2011.....but watch them come apart following this as the cap strikes.

I think it's just the new way things happen, like it or not.

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Barry Hyland link=topic=185109.msg291099#msg291099 date=1283737240]
[quote author=Mark from Brisbane link=topic=185109.msg291088#msg291088 date=1283736737]
Barry, could it be we don't have any money to actually buy players??

No major sponsor in 2011
Attendances down
Merchandise sales down (my assumption with this)

I would hesitate a guess (absolutely zero inside knowledge here) that financially we wouldn't be too dissimilar to the Sharks.

That has to be the case. The club keeps saying we at at cap level, but I posed this question to 'Lowie' when his column first started and it has never been answered. I could understand if the club was broke and simply said... we are not at the cap limit but we are at the limit of what we can spend.

If that's the case then we better batten down for some grim seasons ahead.
[/quote]

Yes but don't forget this was what it was like in 2001-2-3-4, we then started building again in 2005 and made the finals (although eliminated first week) in 2006.

I think these things happen in cycles, St George have been building and have a side that "should" win this year, and possibly could still be at the top in 2011.....but watch them come apart following this as the cap strikes.

I think it's just the new way things happen, like it or not.
[/quote]

Results may be the same but the situation is very different

in 2001 - 2004 etc we had barely spend anywhere near the cap. We had barely any players of note (barring 1 or two) and we had only a few players with reps.

At that stage we were building on an empty roster with case to spare.

This time we have spent the cap, with no money to spare and therefore very little chance to start making strategic buys to build the team and club.

We need to take a bigger fall and shed some more players before we get back to the "rebuild"

we are stuck like this until a few contracts end

 

[susan]

mark

they had 5 out last night including both halves and won easy.best depth of any club.when you can throw in an ex nz halfback and a kid with the potential of stanley into the 7 and 6 the club obviously has very good roster.

the blokes they bring in seem to fit seamlessly into the side which is the sign of a good coach.the ex broncos centre, nick emmet, they play in every position on the field is a classic example.

of course they would struggle to win a comp with those you mentioned out but they have many more first graders than we do.next year outside our top 15 or 16 we may struggle badly,particularly in the forwards.lets hope for a better year with injuries.

i think it will come back to the obvious.b.stewart back to his best and no other injuries to topliners then top 6.he fails in his comeback and it will be a long year.

 

[Cameron]

u would think bailey n williams being off contract in 12 months would free up cash

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Susan

I agree that have bought well (including the best coach in the game), but as I say just see how they go in 2012, including no Bennett (rumoured to be considering the Cowboys as per Courier Mail today).

A question I could ask is this.

Same player roster....replace Hasler with Bennett....would we be any better??

 

[Dan]

Susan

I agree that have bought well (including the best coach in the game), but as I say just see how they go in 2012, including no Bennett (rumoured to be considering the Cowboys as per Courier Mail today).

A question I could ask is this.

Same player roster....replace Hasler with Bennett....would we be any better??

If bennett were our coach?

no we wouldn't be any better.

 

[Shoe1]

I agree Mark - a forgettable year for injuries & suspensions. Also the hangover from last year's off-field dramas with players and administration lingers.

The challenge for the club is to manage this and turn things around for next year - the team showed they are capable of performing to top 4 standard, and can do so again in 2011 all things being equal.

 

[susan]

im not comparing the 2 coaches at all.they are both very good and bennet probably would not have done better.

my point is that they have depth and we don't.they have a coach who has confidence in his second stringers and we don't.with all our problems we have used less players than anyone for a reason.our coach doesnt rate them.if we have 5 or 6 out we are gone.simple as that.

this is not a manly problem ; the main point I am making is that depth always becomes a problem after success and we  are suffering from it like everyone else except the cheats.

look at this last decade.newcastle,roosters,tigers,bulldogs,panthers and broncos havent done much after winning comps.that is the way it is.but it is a worry for a club like ours that is not a financially stable as some in tough times and are struggling with crowds and sponsorship.

i definitely dont worry about hating saints and all that garbage.it is a given i hate them all equally.but i dont ignore what i see in front of me.a very good side who i think will win the comp easily because they have not had to pay up for past success,have recruited well and frankly deserve to win.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

They probably do deserve to win Susan BUT will they??

I am not convinced we won't see them crumble....there will be little seeds of doubt in their minds.....first team to really put it to them will benefit from that.