Mals said:
Harmless27 said:
Thank you TC - interesting stuff.
Your mention of Cliffy putting Beaver into holes is a very interesting comparison.
Again - I'm so far removed from being an 'expert' that its not funny - but you mentioned that Cliffy would come from the Open side to the Blind side during the play of the ball. Do you feel that Foran often plays his hand too early in committing to one side or the other (and thus giving the defensive line a better read on what to expect?) Or do you feel that our halves manage to 'keep them guessing' better than some of the other half combinations in the comp?
Or - option 3 - it makes stuff all difference and I am simply trying too hard to impress? lol
Just my opinion but these quick open side to blind side runs rarely work these days unless the defence is also in disarray due to a line break. Defences are now much better organised & players know which channel they are defending (Parra excepted).
I'm not suggesting we should use these plays or play like Cliffy just giving a nice look back to the past.
Cliffy would struggle in the modern game defences are better structured and he lacked any real sharpness to take the line on. Cliffy's ball skills will still create holes but he would lack the time to orchestrate them and a little too slow in the same way as G.Stewart is not worrying the defence line due to a lack of speed.(Cliffy also struggled against the Doggies up and in defence at times in his career)
Combine Cliffy and Foran into the one package now that would re-write the records for most ball playing try assists.
I recall when Lyons made his comeback or around this period I think he started the season a month or two in and by the end of the regular season Cliffy had the same amount of try assists as A.Johns with less games and probably only playing 40-60mins on average.(considering 98% of Lyons assists were limited to ballplaying while Johns had a vast array of options just shows how effective Lyons ballplaying was)
Even Warren Ryan commented on these stats stating "Manly fans know something others don't" or something along those lines.
This year Manly have resorted to using more of the Doggies deeper second man plays allowing the halves more time while also playing more central.(and hiding themselves behind the line) The risk is we start to play too deep but the advantages are more time and seeing Foran play more central on both sides.
DCE is not really comfortable at all this year and playing second fiddle, he just needs to show and go play straight with short options off each hip, he is not totally comfortable playing deep off a second man play.
I really enjoyed the G.Rose interview on Sunday and how he admitted we are using the double block/ two decoy runner play the Roosters use on top of the video work in defence they have done on it. I'm not confident Manly have worked out how to defend against it I was not convinced with his reply did not seem confident to me.
When Manly executes this play the decoys are way too close and they seem to be running in line with each other----it is more effective to have a lead runner and the other decoy a touch back.(watch the Storm execution of this play against the Raiders to see what I mean)
Having one decoy a touch ahead allows the ballplayer to use him as a face ball decoy or a double pump, or conversely having the outer decoy in front you can hold the ball back for the inside block/decoy runner. Many times I just see two players running side by side and it limits it's effectiveness.
What I find annoying with todays ball playing is the one eyed blinkered approach of running left passing left running right passing right. Ball players should always have an inside option and outside option when they take the line on. So often I see Foran burst left and you just know he is going to pass left and many times his right hip is devoid of runners and there are holes available.
Manly still lack that simple power play up the middle that can break the shackles in a tight game(in the red zone), front rowers these days have to do more than just be go forward men. You will see in the last few years and more so over the next 3-4yrs of more tries through Front Rowers in the redzone getting one on one or between defenders off a shallow flat play especially after a clean quick play the ball.
I don't rate Souths attacking structures but if the game is in a grind they have the ability to score this way along with the Roosters, Dogs and a few others. Manly very rarely score tries up the middle and it is one area we need to address this year and coming years.
