The real issue

[susan]

I personally couldn't care less about the anti Manly stuff in the media and the usual concocted outrage from the Manly haters.Our club has thrived on this rubbish for years.

What it has done though is taken the attention off the real issue for us and that is our strategy in these big games.It is great to revel in skivvy and fozs hardness(you've got to love it) but in a football sense it matters little if we lose our game plan.If Fridays game and last years Bulldogs clash haven't shown that we need a different approach I don't know what will.Look at the stats-when we played footy against the Bunnies we created numerous chances-the only way they could possibly have won that game given the stats is through our indiscipline.

We simply played dumb.Faoso and Bretts actions were stupid and Stevie must know he has little leeway anymore.He is a lynchpin of our side and he just has to calm down a little.Even though his hit in my view was legal if he misses by a few inches with that it will be 12 weeks and to put it bluntly that would be it for us as we have zero depth out wide.We just have to tone it down,not for any politically correct reason, but for the reason that it does not help us win footy games.

To be brutally honest once the biff started our play looked totally haphazard, dangerous definitely but not the sort of footy that will win a tough prelim final at the scums house which will probably be required to win a title.

And finally this game in the big picture is not really relevant.We showed that we can beat this mob when required.What is relevant is the fact that these needless likely suspensions and the injuries to Joe and King in my view will cost us valuable premiership points,.Next week should have been 2 premiership points but now I seriously doubt we will beat them in what is a a massive hoodoo game anyway. With Roosters and Storm after that it will make running first or second (which given the Storm huge home ground semi final advantage, will be required) a very tough task indeed.

Even if we get lucky at the judiciary this game should be a wake up call for us to be more clinical and we have the football nouse in our key positions to do it easily.

As TC said time to play a bit smarter boys.

 

[mickqld]

Yes indeed. We just don't seem to learn from past mistakes in these sort of games. Trying to prove we are tougher than them when we should be playing football to win the game. It was a dumb performance and as usual the same suspects are going to come out of it with suspensions. Well we are going to have to dig deep to fix up our own stupid mistakes.

 

[KOMORI]

Agreed.... Someone in another thread mentioned the game versus the Dogs and how emotion overruled the head in THAT game, and appeared to do so against the Wabbits.

I remember a quote from a favourite book of mine (it's related to boxing but definately applies to rugby league):

"First with the head, then with the heart"

 

[dowdz]

Yes, our aggression in big games can cost us 2 points but I love it. If you look at it, we were losing 2 nil at half time. I blame that on not been patient in attack and some good defense from souths. We just need to learn to control the aggression and be patient nest the line

 

[Darren]

As TC said time to play a bit smarter boys.

Excellent post Susan and many online wondered why we seemed so wrapped up in belting them and as you mentioned, as soon as we started playing our footy again we got back in the match. Well done Susan on a post that is well thought and lacking of over the top emotional comments about blaming the ref, Souffs and stats that mean nothing at full time!

 

[sheridanstand78]

Manly were guilty of letting the red mist take over their game on Friday night. The statistics dont lie, 6 line breaks to 2.

We were too frantic and took too many hail Mary options instead of grinding the vermin down, not one goal line drop out to me is an indicator, there was a lack of composure to complete our sets.

To give up cheap penalties consistently got them off the hook and on the front foot.

There was not enough go forward, to much side to side and the vermin defence read it easily all night. As soon as we were more direct it produced results.

There is nothing wrong with playing a tough game but there needs to be a balance, I think Stevie adds so much to our aggression and I think his tackle was great and hopefully the authorites see that the arm came up off the ball. Stewie should know better and Richie truly has to look at his tackling techique.

A lot to take out of this game, the moral of the story is you have to take your chances when they are presented to you.

 

[torana355]

Great post!! If we concentrate on just playing footy we can beat any team. I think the loss to Souths is a good thing in hindsight, im sure Toovey will crack down on the things we are not doing so well and we will be better for it. One thing we need to do is learn patience when attacking, we try to score every time we are in the attacking zone when some times a few repeat sets may be the better option to apply pressure and allow the opposition team make a mistake.

 

[Fluffy]

Yep, this was the exact same move we played against the Melbourne Scum in 2011 and look where that got us, worst year on record, absolute failure....

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

We can keep pointing to games where the aggressive tackling style has led to losses, but let's provide some balance here, there have been many games won by using the exact same methods, some of them big games also

If we want 3 examples from last year

The 1st game against the Dogs, plenty of really hard hits, tight game, Glenn comes out of the line and smashes a Dogs forward, Payne from memory. He spills the ball and not too long later we score the match winner

Late season v Souths last season, they were on a real roll running into the finals, we got them up at Gosford from memory, and from minute 1 we ripped into them and they couldn't handle it, and we won comfortably

Semis v Cowboys, a big forward pack, and we came out and rattled them and dominated the game

The aggression wasn't our issue the other night, execution was.
In that Storm finals match last season, again aggression wasn't our issue, we spilt the pill about 18-20 times

Sometimes we can search a bit hard for answers after a loss, the thing with this comp is that if you are slightly off you game and the other team is on, you will lose. I'd say Souths were at around 90-95% and we were at around 80-85% and we saw our result

There will always be areas of the game to tweak and work on to improve, but we will be right in amongst every game we play this season

I have no doubt that if we played like we did on Friday, and played any of the 4 teams that were on display last night, we towel them up by 20pts, the top 4 sides look a mile ahead of the rest

 

[Darren]

Some good points there Kiwi. A lot for Tooves to look over.

 

[torana355]

The games we have won we controlled our aggression and emotions, in the Dogs loss last year and the game against the Rabbits loss we were clearly trying to bash them into submission. Im sorry but it just doesn't work and is unnecessary with the talent with have in our team. Play smart!!!

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

But I just offered examples of where the physical play did win the day ? A lot of teams have struggled with it, including the ones you have mentioned as beating us

Let's look at it another way then, do you think that it was defensively that we lost Friday nights game ? Because that is the only area where you are looking to bash the opposition.

In the 7 games we have played this season, was that style of defence much different on Friday night to the previous 6 efforts ? Not really

You and most others were more critical of the attack and Stewarts play as the main factor in the loss, nothing to do with the aggressive defence

 

[torana355]

But I just offered examples of where the physical play did win the day ? A lot of teams have struggled with it, including the ones you have mentioned as beating us

Let's look at it another way then, do you think that it was defensively that we lost Friday nights game ? Because that is the only area where you are looking to bash the opposition.

In the 7 games we have played this season, was that style of defence much different on Friday night to the previous 6 efforts ? Not really

You and most others were more critical of the attack and Stewarts play as the main factor in the loss, nothing to do with the aggressive defence

Yes but in your examples we used controlled aggression and did not let it take over the fact we were playing rugby league. We lost the game due to being to "excited" in both defense and attack, everything was rushed, a few repeat sets would have done wonders. Also its fine to put on big hits but not at the expense of getting suspended for 6+ weeks. The reason we got so frustrated had alot to do with our right side attack being cramped by Gift not running straight enough, also Goodwin defended very well.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Ok then, so what parts changed it from controlled aggression to uncontrolled aggression ?

I really didn't see any difference

Matai is not going to be suspended for 6+ weeks for his hit. Fa'aosos issues were technique rather than aggression

 

[Rex]

There's a balance. Obviously penalties hurt. Not to mention suspensions. Playing smart includes minimising them. So yes we do need to play smarter.

And the game is a full-on physical confrontation. Lose the intensity of emotion and you risk being physically overwhelmed. There is no-one more intensely emotional than Bellamy. It's how we combine emotion with reason that counts.

Manly lost the game but by no means lost the physical confrontation. Against the biggest pack in the comp. That knowledge and confidence will stand them in good stead at the back end of the season.

 

[torana355]

Ok then, so what parts changed it from controlled aggression to uncontrolled aggression ?

The part where we got penalized. Like Rex said there is a balance, if you get that balance right you don't get penalized or suspended but still make a good impact. When you start getting penalized the aggression has gone too far.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Then we need to look into what those penalties were, and were try due to extra aggro ?

The Matai one you could make a case for in that area. Stewart's stupidity you could definitely say yes. 2 for Richie, poor technique rather than how we were playing. A couple of hold downs I wouldn't attribute it too, and a couple of offsides, again probably not down to that

Most of them definitely fit into a play smarter category, but put it down to an aggressive approach solely ? Debatable for me

 

[torana355]

Then we need to look into what those penalties were, and were try due to extra aggro ?

The Matai one you could make a case for in that area. Stewart's stupidity you could definitely say yes. 2 for Richie, poor technique rather than how we were playing. A couple of hold downs I wouldn't attribute it too, and a couple of offsides, again probably not down to that

Most of them definitely fit into a play smarter category, but put it down to an aggressive approach solely ? Debatable for me

The aggressiveness was not the only reason we lost. I have to admit Goodwins defensive effort on Lyon was superb all night. I still think Gift needs to run straighter, Symonds has shown how effective we can be going though the middle rather then going to the edges all the time.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Goodwin was awesome

Even though we lost, this round I have only seen Souths and Roosters play better footy than us, Melbourne were fairly ordinary but still managed to get home

 

[Technical Coach]

We can keep pointing to games where the aggressive tackling style has led to losses, but let's provide some balance here, there have been many games won by using the exact same methods, some of them big games also

If we want 3 examples from last year

The 1st game against the Dogs, plenty of really hard hits, tight game, Glenn comes out of the line and smashes a Dogs forward, Payne from memory. He spills the ball and not too long later we score the match winner

Late season v Souths last season, they were on a real roll running into the finals, we got them up at Gosford from memory, and from minute 1 we ripped into them and they couldn't handle it, and we won comfortably

Semis v Cowboys, a big forward pack, and we came out and rattled them and dominated the game

The aggression wasn't our issue the other night, execution was.
In that Storm finals match last season, again aggression wasn't our issue, we spilt the pill about 18-20 times

Sometimes we can search a bit hard for answers after a loss, the thing with this comp is that if you are slightly off you game and the other team is on, you will lose. I'd say Souths were at around 90-95% and we were at around 80-85% and we saw our result

There will always be areas of the game to tweak and work on to improve, but we will be right in amongst every game we play this season

I have no doubt that if we played like we did on Friday, and played any of the 4 teams that were on display last night, we towel them up by 20pts, the top 4 sides look a mile ahead of the rest

The point is that our high intensity aggression year by year is becoming less effective at separating us from the pack as much as it used to be and becoming harder to sustain. More injuries at crucial points of the season and suspensions plus the high risk of tanking at the money end will "eventually" result.

The Doggies game this year was a more composed aggression very machine like but still lacking clinical execution to round out the performance enough to my liking.

To be honest our aggression during the Souths game picked up when we got behind to force more drop ball as we needed the pill so in a way i understand and accept it needed to happen. The real problem is our lack of clinical execution and sustained composed well thought out attack to generate points in the first half which by not doing so increases our frustration levels leading to more aggression and ill discipline.

Time and time again you see if we don't put on a try within 20 mins our frustration levels become evident we start risking more offloads we start dropping more of the pill and we start to give away penalties by the bucket load. Then the old constant whinge to the ref after every penalty kicks in partly out of frustration and to slow down the play for a breather the same thing happened in the first half during this game.

It is not about stopping our aggression as it is has won us plenty of games but tone it down a touch and adding a more clinical smart composed way of playing to compliment the aggression--- we need to take advantage of our dominant periods with points to get out of this grind.