Tom is a Myth

[Dion Johnson]

Tom must accept that his best years as our superstar fullback are behind him. He is no longer that guy. It's time he moved into centre and played a roving role similar to Manu. I think he would be absolutely sensational in that role.

Koula, on the other hand, should be our long-term fullback. He is becoming everything that Tom no longer is, in terms of defence, speed and his ability to cut through from the backfield. I also think we need to go back to Garrick on the left wing, with Tom playing inside him. Talau goes to right centre, and our back five looks like this:

Koula
Garrick
Turbo
Talau
Saab

I share the sentiment on Garrick, very good winger and the attack on the left edge has suffered without his speed there.

Turbo his effort plays in attacking the ball have been below expectation this season, letting bombs bounce rather than go for the ball hasn’t been in his game over the years.

Turbo doesn’t appear to be switched on for the full 80 minutes, origin selection could be a good thing for the team in unleashing the strengths of Koula in one on one situations, Koula hasn’t been utilised this season with the attacking structures, something needs to happen with the left side attack as it’s very readable for the opposition to read, another left edge backrower is needed ASAP.

 

[SeaEagleSI1]

People are bagging Tom.
If you look at why he has been out of position in defense, it’s because his defending in the front line.
Maybe if the others did their job in defense he could be that extra step or two back and be in better position.
Tom on the field is better then no Tom.

Go the eagles

 

[Not Paul Kent]

Tom is a fuking myth,

cannot play origin at all on current form

• he is in slow motion all game
• out of position comstantly
• won’t jump for high balls
• drops balls in open space
• lame 4th tackle hit ups only
• won’t run hard in a back line movement and succumbs or passes way to early to Koula

he has been utter trash, and tonight v raiders he cost us the game being out of position many times and made to look like a complete fool

That’s it Soup! Meet me out the front of Totti’s Rozelle!

 

[DanielTurbo888]

I'm still waiting, hoping and expecting him to hit top form soon. Hopefully this is the week. It's his error rate that is killing us. Most of his 18 errors have been unforced. Just cold drops of the ball.

 

[Disco]

Case in point in why players shouldn't feel loyalty to the "fans". Many will turn on you in an instant.

Sure Tom my not be playing at 21 levels but in the team he is

Equal 1st for tries scored
Equal 2nd for try assists
1st for total runs
1st for run metres
2nd for line breaks
3rd for line break assists
2nd for tackle busts
1st for offloads
1st for effective offloads

Now admittedly he is 2nd for errors, but it goes DCE, Turbo, Brooks, no suprise your players trying to create lead the way.

Now yes yes, stats don't tell the entire story but neither does over emotional reations.

Fact is Tom has been a little down on his best, down to a combination of some tentatively from previous injuries and being guilty of trying a bit too hard.

The fact also is that Tom has been one of our best this season, is a walk up for NSW (on merit) and there isn't a ciach in the NRL who wouldn't love to have him.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Case in point in why players shouldn't feel loyalty to the "fans". Many will turn on you in an instant.

Sure Tom my not be playing at 21 levels but in the team he is

Equal 1st for tries scored
Equal 2nd for try assists
1st for total runs
1st for run metres
2nd for line breaks
3rd for line break assists
2nd for tackle busts
1st for offloads
1st for effective offloads

Now admittedly he is 2nd for errors, but it goes DCE, Turbo, Brooks, no suprise your players trying to create lead the way.

Now yes yes, stats don't tell the entire story but neither does over emotional reations.

Fact is Tom has been a little down on his best, down to a combination of some tentatively from previous injuries and being guilty of trying a bit too hard.

The fact also is that Tom has been one of our best this season, is a walk up for NSW (on merit) and there isn't a ciach in the NRL who wouldn't love to have him.

Well, let’s put some of that in perspective…

Tries scored means little outside quaint category stats at the end of each year. If it was tries scored on the back of individual brilliance then it may carry more weight. How often is he on the end of moves backing up as he should to run and fall over the line unopposed?

Try assists are more impressive, but being in a creative spine position in the team I would expect that.

Total runs and run meters… well, Gallon did well in those categories. Demanding the ball to bash it up for a run every set 4th tackle pads out that stat somewhat, and is not always great for the team.

Line breaks, line break assists, and tackle busts are to be expected. He’s a fullback and often running the ball back from kicks or on the back of expansive backline sweep plays… SO, he has more opportunity than any other position to break the line, break tackles, and/or assist others to do so.

Many of those stats reflect his position and expectations of his role. They do not necessarily reflect stunning performance.

How many tries has he saved with his last line defence? How many kicks has he been out of position for? How many bombs has he let bounce? How many attacking bombs has he leaped above the defender to catch and score, or defending bombs defused? How many UNFORCED ERRORS? How much effort and enthusiasm running the ball back? How well does he help settle DCE under pressure when DCE starts going into headless chook mode?

Finally, is he tentative or trying too hard? They kind of contradict each other?

We all love Tom, and we all want to see him be the amazing player we know and have seen… but this year has been underwhelming and many fans feel disappointed… Fans are just venting.

 

[Disco]

Well, let’s put some of that in perspective…

Tries scored means little outside quaint category stats at the end of each year. If it was tries scored on the back of individual brilliance then it may carry more weight. How often is he on the end of moves backing up as he should to run and fall over the line unopposed?

Try assists are more impressive, but being in a creative spine position in the team I would expect that.

Total runs and run meters… well, Gallon did well in those categories. Demanding the ball to bash it up for a run every set 4th tackle pads out that stat somewhat, and is not always great for the team.

Line breaks, line break assists, and tackle busts are to be expected. He’s a fullback and often running the ball from kicks or on the back of expansive backline sweep plays… SO, he has more opportunity than any other position to break the line, break tackles, and/or assist others to do so.

Many of those stats reflect his position and expectations of his role. They do not necessarily reflect stunning performance.

How many tries has he saved with his last line defence? How many kicks has he been out of position for? How many bombs has he let bounce? How many attacking bombs has he leaped above the defender to catch and score, or defending bombs defused? How many UNFORCED ERRORS? How much effort and enthusiasm running the ball back? How well does he help settle DCE under pressure when DCE starts going into headless chook mode?

Finally, is he tentative or trying too hard? They kind of contradict each other?

We all love Tom, and we all want to see him be the amazing player we know and have seen… but this year has been underwhelming and many fans feel disappointed… Fans are just venting.

Fans are overly emotional after a frustrating loss.

I get it but I find the lack of objectivity tiresome.

 

[Disco]

Finally, is he tentative or trying too hard? They kind of contradict each other?

Not at all

You can be tentative in contact or to stretch out due to injury and you can over play your hand in attack by pushing passes or offloads etc.

 

[Disco]

Line breaks, line break assists, and tackle busts are to be expected. He’s a fullback and often running the ball from kicks or on the back of expansive backline sweep plays… SO, he has more opportunity than any other position to break the line, break tackles, and/or assist others to do so.

Many of those stats reflect his position and expectations of his role. They do not necessarily reflect stunning performance.

Sorry should have responded to these all in one.

Okay, so....to be expected from a fullback I guess, so lets compare fullbacks.

5th for tries
2nd for try assists
1st for runs
2nd for run metres
2nd for line breaks
3rd for line break assists
5th for tackle busts
1st for offloads

Again for fairness 3rd for errors behind Walsh and Drinkwater....the same Walsh that has missed a few and people froth over.

 

[HK_Eagle]

And given our expectations and all the plaudits he is given as an exceptional generational talent, you are happy with those stats? Personally, I’m not impressed. To me it smacks of excuses and justification.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Quite frankly, I’d prefer Turbo the myth transform into Turbo the Sith master. There’s too much goody goody Skywalker in those brothers. Embrace the Bellamy dark arts if you want to be winners.

 

[Disco]

And given our expectations and all the plaudits he is given as an exceptional generational talent, you are happy with those stats? Personally, I’m not impressed. To me it smacks of excuses and justification.

I think he definitely has more gears and he needs to tighten defense and his errors but seriously, that state of this thread.

To paraphrase

• a myth
• looks like he doesnt give a **** about Manly
• Disinterested
• Should move to centre
• Show pony
• Only cares about Origin
• Worst on field
• Drop him to Blacktown

Hyperbolic and petulant nonsense the majority of it.

 

[HK_Eagle]

I think he definitely has more gears and he needs to tighten defense and his errors but seriously, that state of this thread.

To paraphrase

• a myth
• looks like he doesnt give a **** about Manly
• Disinterested
• Should move to centre
• Show pony
• Only cares about Origin
• Worst on field
• Drop him to Blacktown

Hyperbolic and petulant nonsense the majority of it.

I’m not so interested in the hyperbole and exact phrasing. Bottom line is he has underperformed and we have looked horrible at times on the back of some of his poorer performances… it is the thrust of the frustration and calling out his less than stellar performances that is behind this thread, and I can’t disagree or dispute that thrust (regardless of the colourful language and phrasing used).

 

[HK_Eagle]

And I should add, combined with DCE’s headless chook performances under pressure coinciding with Turbo underwhelming is a double whammy. So much cap tied up in those two, reflecting our investment and belief in them to lead this club to achievement… ouch!

 

[HK_Eagle]

Just to wrap up my thoughts on this thread… as somebody mentioned elsewhere, Turbo fails to rise to the big occasions. When things are not going our way he disappears… the definition of flat track bully. He does not instil me with confidence when the grit and grind comes on. He tantalises and excites me, but they are two very different states. One is more likely lead to team and club success.

Compare that to Eddie and that finals run in 1978.

 

[Eagles4Life]

Fans are overly emotional after a frustrating loss.

I get it but I find the lack of objectivity tiresome.

That goes both ways @Disco

 

[Dion Johnson]

Case in point in why players shouldn't feel loyalty to the "fans". Many will turn on you in an instant.

Sure Tom my not be playing at 21 levels but in the team he is

Equal 1st for tries scored
Equal 2nd for try assists
1st for total runs
1st for run metres
2nd for line breaks
3rd for line break assists
2nd for tackle busts
1st for offloads
1st for effective offloads

Now admittedly he is 2nd for errors, but it goes DCE, Turbo, Brooks, no suprise your players trying to create lead the way.

Now yes yes, stats don't tell the entire story but neither does over emotional reations.

Fact is Tom has been a little down on his best, down to a combination of some tentatively from previous injuries and being guilty of trying a bit too hard.

The fact also is that Tom has been one of our best this season, is a walk up for NSW (on merit) and there isn't a ciach in the NRL who wouldn't love to have him.

I think Tommy is playing origin, watching him in the nine games this season he doesn’t look to be switched on for the full 80 minutes, I don’t know if that’s injury or self doubt due to previous injuries.

From the nine games played this season the spine hasn’t unlocked Koula, the thing that I have noticed in Toms game on the left the cut out ball to the winger in particular has been shelved and the ball that Koula does get it’s at the line.

There needs to be improvement in getting Koula into one on one situations with early ball, I look forward to Tom getting picked for origin as he will play 100% in origin and that’s beneficial to Manly when he comes back along with Koula getting a go at the back and bringing him into the game.

 

[TokyoEagle]

While I can appreciate both sides of this argument, I think some are being a bit harsh on Tom.

I agree that not taking the kick in goal on the full and expecting it to bounce was a significant error. But you know what? We all make mistakes, especially when fatigue sets in. That's part of what makes this game so thrilling to watch.

Defensive strategies have evolved significantly since Tom began his career. Nowadays, fullbacks are often required to defend in the line against any team close to the try line, which can make their cover defense less effective. If they've already been involved in a tackle in the preceding play, their ability to cover becomes even more challenging. Long gone are the days of a fullback standing behind the defensive line and tracking the ball. Attack is much more structured these days with multiple players in motion in any given play.

For one, I wouldn't trade Tom for any other player in the league, especially in his position. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his efforts and on-field conduct. Let's not forget, he's a big lad, standing at 6'5" if I'm not mistaken. And if memory serves me right, many of those taller, lankier boys growing up tended to carry themselves a little differently, and that is without the scrutiny of the camera.

 

[HK_Eagle]

While I can appreciate both sides of this argument, I think some are being a bit harsh on Tom.

I agree that not taking the kick in goal on the full and expecting it to bounce was a significant error. But you know what? We all make mistakes, especially when fatigue sets in. That's part of what makes this game so thrilling to watch.

Defensive strategies have evolved significantly since Tom began his career. Nowadays, fullbacks are often required to defend in the line against any team close to the try line, which can make their cover defense less effective. If they've already been involved in a tackle in the preceding play, their ability to cover becomes even more challenging. Long gone are the days of a fullback standing behind the defensive line and tracking the ball. Attack is much more structured these days with multiple players in motion in any given play.

For one, I wouldn't trade Tom for any other player in the league, especially in his position. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his efforts and on-field conduct. Let's not forget, he's a big lad, standing at 6'5" if I'm not mistaken. And if memory serves me right, many of those taller, lankier boys growing up tended to carry themselves a little differently, and that is without the scrutiny of the camera.

6”5… and how many bombs has he actually caught this season (defensive or offensive)? He had a midget jump over him in one of our previous games.

So, remind me what Tom is being paid big bucks for? If the game has evolved, why are we paying Turbo big bucks for a game that is no longer relevant?

Defending in the line… no need to cover anymore? Explain to me Turbo’s value of investment in this new world.

 

[TokyoEagle]

6”5… and how many bombs has he actually caught this season (defensive or offensive)? He had a midget jump over him in one of our previous games.

So, remind me what Tom is being paid big bucks for? If the game has evolved, why are we paying Turbo big bucks for a game that is no longer relevant?

Defending in the line… no need to cover anymore? Explain to me Turbo’s value of investment in this new world.

Midgets jump over many people. Being agile is one of the benefits to being smaller in stature.

Tom is being paid the big bucks to be one of the best in the game in his current position and a player of influence. If you don't mind, I will go back to my first post and ask you what players currently playing the game at fullback you are going to trade Turbo for?