pt73
Bencher
I guess it's no big surprise.
Best of luck getting anything useful from Annesley.
www.smh.com.au
Des Hasler can’t make sense of it.
At a time when there is a growing perception that the top teams are receiving preferential treatment from match officials, the Manly coach can’t understand why his side - considered one of the genuine contenders - is ranked last for discipline this year.
“It doesn’t make sense,” Hasler said. “We are so mindful of our discipline and work so hard on it.
“We have really good interaction with NRL referee coordinator Jared Maxwell and chief of football Graham Annesley.
“We are always mindful and respectful of our [relationships with match officials].
“This doesn’t make sense. This is not right. Please explain.”
The Herald commissioned statistics provider Champion Data to rank the 16 NRL teams on discipline based on penalties given away, set restarts conceded, number of players sin-binned and sent off and the number of players placed on report.
Unsurprisingly, six of the sides currently in the top eight were also ranked in the top half of the competition for discipline.
Competition heavyweights Melbourne came out on top with a combined score of 13, generated when the key indices (ie, the differences between penalties awarded and conceded, etc) are factored in.
Given the Storm’s reputation and standing in the game, their first-placed result isn’t a surprise. However, there appear to be a couple of anomalies in the findings. Penrith, the reigning premiers, are ranked 10th, a surprisingly low standing given their consistent performances over recent seasons.
However, the biggest surprise is the Sea Eagles coming in at last place with a discipline score of negative-17. When informed of the development, Hasler said he was keen to take up the matter with Annesley.
“It can’t be that big a difference,” Hasler said. “We are always incredibly respectful, we are mindful of having key performance indicators around how we avoid that. It doesn’t make sense.”
So is it a case of the chicken or the egg? Does it follow that the most disciplined teams are generally those who perform the best, or do the best teams get the rub of the green?
Several coaches and officials have gone public, despite the threat of incurring a fine for suggesting everyone isn’t being treated equally, to suggest the latter. It began when Gold Coast coach Justin Holbrook - whose side is ranked the third-worst for discipline - made the point after the opening-round loss to Parramatta. Pointing to the 7-1 penalty count against his team, Holbrook said: “I’m not here to take anything away from Parramatta, it’s about us not being one of the big clubs and not getting anything.”
Perhaps emboldened after Holbrook escaped without a fine, other influential figures have made similar public statements.
A few weeks later, after witnessing three of his players get sent to the sin bin against the Roosters, Cowboys coach Todd Payten said: “There were some calls tonight, 50-50 calls that went against us. The Titans’ head coach a couple of weeks ago made a comment, and I agree with him.
“Teams that have been up the pointy end of the competition for a while now, or have high-profile players get the benefit of the doubt too often, and that’s frustrating. That’s my opinion over watching footy for a long time.”
The comments from Payten, who coaches the most penalised player in the competition in Jeremiah Nanai (nine penalties from seven games), have been echoed recently.
In the aftermath of the Anzac Day victory over the Roosters - in which Daniel Tupou was controversially allowed to remain on the field despite a high tackle - Dragons chairman Craig Young was asked whether certain clubs receive preferential treatment.
“You could perceive that to be right,” Young told News Corp.
Annesley came out in support of his match officials.
“There needs to be great care taken in any analysis of cherry-picked statistics which in isolation can paint a completely misleading picture of the overall contributing factors that determine the outcome of games, or the context in which incidents are adjudicated,” Annesley said.
“Statistics can tell any story you want them to. In this particular analysis it is ambiguous to use the total of discretionary calls by the referee for penalties and set restarts, combined with the number of sin-bins and reportable incidents of foul play which are completely within the control of players to avoid.
“Other aspects of the game not included in this statistical snapshot also have an impact on the number of penalties and restarts. Factors such as time in possession, field position, player errors, and team tactics cannot simply be ignored to suit a particular argument.
“Anyone can pick and choose isolated statistics to support their case, however there is one over-ridding and unavoidable factor that cannot be denied. That is, in any statistical analysis of teams in any sporting code anywhere in the world, there will always be a team at the top of the stats, a team at the bottom, with all others filling the spaces in between.
“Game results and positions on the NRL competition ladder simply indicate that as to be expected we have a wide variety of players, talent, compliance, and tactics that all have an impact on the statistical outcome. If anyone is suggesting the NRL should somehow artificially engineer a much closer variation than these numbers, that would indeed be a scandal worth talking about.”
The Herald spoke to a number of coaches and officials, some who didn’t want to go on the record. Several stated their belief that there was an unconscious bias from referees, whereby the borderline decisions tend to favour the fancied teams.
“It’s silly to suggest referees aren’t human because they are, and they make mistakes, just like everyone else,” said one of the game’s longest-serving administrators, Raiders CEO Don Furner.
“They are also influenced like other people are, that’s life. Without a doubt, home-crowds baying at you, high-profile captains coming up and talking to you has an impact. Certain people are more influential than others.”
Is Cameron Smith a case in point? The former Storm skipper earned a reputation as one of the great manipulators of referees, a point even referee Matt Cecchin acknowledged after his own retirement.
“He was really engaging, not in a nasty, ‘You stuffed that up’ way, but he would say, ‘Cech, I agree with that penalty, but can you keep an eye on this guy? He always seems to get caught in there and we’re not really locking it in,’” Cecchin told SEN last September.
“Your mind starts to go, ‘Maybe he’s right?’ He was very, very, engaging and very clever with how he did things.
“Off the field, you’d speak to him about the game, he just knew it in such complexity, it was incredible.”
As one observer noted, Smith would likely hold more sway over a referee than, for instance, if an official was approached by one of the Wests Tigers’ five current co-captains.
When it was suggested to one long-time clipboard-holder that, over the course of time, the favourable and unfavourable decisions evened themselves out, he replied: “It never comes out in the wash.”
Best of luck getting anything useful from Annesley.
‘Please explain’: Hasler stunned by Manly’s rap sheet
It started off as a whisper but has become a roar; do the better teams get the rub of the green from the referees? The figures make for interesting reading.
Des Hasler can’t make sense of it.
At a time when there is a growing perception that the top teams are receiving preferential treatment from match officials, the Manly coach can’t understand why his side - considered one of the genuine contenders - is ranked last for discipline this year.
“It doesn’t make sense,” Hasler said. “We are so mindful of our discipline and work so hard on it.
“We have really good interaction with NRL referee coordinator Jared Maxwell and chief of football Graham Annesley.
“We are always mindful and respectful of our [relationships with match officials].
“This doesn’t make sense. This is not right. Please explain.”
The Herald commissioned statistics provider Champion Data to rank the 16 NRL teams on discipline based on penalties given away, set restarts conceded, number of players sin-binned and sent off and the number of players placed on report.
Unsurprisingly, six of the sides currently in the top eight were also ranked in the top half of the competition for discipline.
Competition heavyweights Melbourne came out on top with a combined score of 13, generated when the key indices (ie, the differences between penalties awarded and conceded, etc) are factored in.
Given the Storm’s reputation and standing in the game, their first-placed result isn’t a surprise. However, there appear to be a couple of anomalies in the findings. Penrith, the reigning premiers, are ranked 10th, a surprisingly low standing given their consistent performances over recent seasons.
However, the biggest surprise is the Sea Eagles coming in at last place with a discipline score of negative-17. When informed of the development, Hasler said he was keen to take up the matter with Annesley.
“It can’t be that big a difference,” Hasler said. “We are always incredibly respectful, we are mindful of having key performance indicators around how we avoid that. It doesn’t make sense.”
So is it a case of the chicken or the egg? Does it follow that the most disciplined teams are generally those who perform the best, or do the best teams get the rub of the green?
Several coaches and officials have gone public, despite the threat of incurring a fine for suggesting everyone isn’t being treated equally, to suggest the latter. It began when Gold Coast coach Justin Holbrook - whose side is ranked the third-worst for discipline - made the point after the opening-round loss to Parramatta. Pointing to the 7-1 penalty count against his team, Holbrook said: “I’m not here to take anything away from Parramatta, it’s about us not being one of the big clubs and not getting anything.”
Perhaps emboldened after Holbrook escaped without a fine, other influential figures have made similar public statements.
A few weeks later, after witnessing three of his players get sent to the sin bin against the Roosters, Cowboys coach Todd Payten said: “There were some calls tonight, 50-50 calls that went against us. The Titans’ head coach a couple of weeks ago made a comment, and I agree with him.
“Teams that have been up the pointy end of the competition for a while now, or have high-profile players get the benefit of the doubt too often, and that’s frustrating. That’s my opinion over watching footy for a long time.”
The comments from Payten, who coaches the most penalised player in the competition in Jeremiah Nanai (nine penalties from seven games), have been echoed recently.
In the aftermath of the Anzac Day victory over the Roosters - in which Daniel Tupou was controversially allowed to remain on the field despite a high tackle - Dragons chairman Craig Young was asked whether certain clubs receive preferential treatment.
“You could perceive that to be right,” Young told News Corp.
Annesley came out in support of his match officials.
“There needs to be great care taken in any analysis of cherry-picked statistics which in isolation can paint a completely misleading picture of the overall contributing factors that determine the outcome of games, or the context in which incidents are adjudicated,” Annesley said.
“Statistics can tell any story you want them to. In this particular analysis it is ambiguous to use the total of discretionary calls by the referee for penalties and set restarts, combined with the number of sin-bins and reportable incidents of foul play which are completely within the control of players to avoid.
“Other aspects of the game not included in this statistical snapshot also have an impact on the number of penalties and restarts. Factors such as time in possession, field position, player errors, and team tactics cannot simply be ignored to suit a particular argument.
“Anyone can pick and choose isolated statistics to support their case, however there is one over-ridding and unavoidable factor that cannot be denied. That is, in any statistical analysis of teams in any sporting code anywhere in the world, there will always be a team at the top of the stats, a team at the bottom, with all others filling the spaces in between.
“Game results and positions on the NRL competition ladder simply indicate that as to be expected we have a wide variety of players, talent, compliance, and tactics that all have an impact on the statistical outcome. If anyone is suggesting the NRL should somehow artificially engineer a much closer variation than these numbers, that would indeed be a scandal worth talking about.”
The Herald spoke to a number of coaches and officials, some who didn’t want to go on the record. Several stated their belief that there was an unconscious bias from referees, whereby the borderline decisions tend to favour the fancied teams.
“It’s silly to suggest referees aren’t human because they are, and they make mistakes, just like everyone else,” said one of the game’s longest-serving administrators, Raiders CEO Don Furner.
“They are also influenced like other people are, that’s life. Without a doubt, home-crowds baying at you, high-profile captains coming up and talking to you has an impact. Certain people are more influential than others.”
Is Cameron Smith a case in point? The former Storm skipper earned a reputation as one of the great manipulators of referees, a point even referee Matt Cecchin acknowledged after his own retirement.
“He was really engaging, not in a nasty, ‘You stuffed that up’ way, but he would say, ‘Cech, I agree with that penalty, but can you keep an eye on this guy? He always seems to get caught in there and we’re not really locking it in,’” Cecchin told SEN last September.
“Your mind starts to go, ‘Maybe he’s right?’ He was very, very, engaging and very clever with how he did things.
“Off the field, you’d speak to him about the game, he just knew it in such complexity, it was incredible.”
As one observer noted, Smith would likely hold more sway over a referee than, for instance, if an official was approached by one of the Wests Tigers’ five current co-captains.
When it was suggested to one long-time clipboard-holder that, over the course of time, the favourable and unfavourable decisions evened themselves out, he replied: “It never comes out in the wash.”
