2007 Grand Final

[Nuttybott]

Just wanted to get some thoughts on this.

Does the 2007 GF actually count as a "loss" against our club record? I know that we physically "lost" the game on the night (I was there 🙁), but as the Melbourne Storm won the game with a team that was later declared illegal after the salary cap rorting scandal, and the resultant Premiership was stripped from their record, my understanding is that the GF result was declared null and void.

So does the 2007 GF count when totalling up our "win/loss" Premiership record? I realise that the Premiership for that year was not awarded to us by default (nor to Parramatta in 2009), but my point is that although we didn't actually WIN that GF, technically (and officially) we didn't LOSE it either.

Thoughts...?

 

[ads]

I actually thought they stripped them of the premiership rather than affecting the 'result' of the match. Not sure though but guessing it still counts as a loss.

 

[Nuttybott]

I actually thought they stripped them of the premiership rather than affecting the 'result' of the match. Not sure though but guessing it still counts as a loss.

Yeah, you could be right. But I was just wondering whether the fact that Melbourne Storm fielded an illegal team might nullify the result.

But then, I suppose if it did it might also nullify the result of the 2008 Grand Final, because they fielded an illegal team in THAT one too! :-/

 

[Mals]

Yeah, you could be right. But I was just wondering whether the fact that Melbourne Storm fielded an illegal team might nullify the result.

But then, I suppose if it did it might also nullify the result of the 2008 Grand Final, because they fielded an illegal team in THAT one too! :-/

Cam Smith not playing may have brought them under the cap ;-)

 

[Nuttybott]

Yeah, you could be right. But I was just wondering whether the fact that Melbourne Storm fielded an illegal team might nullify the result.

But then, I suppose if it did it might also nullify the result of the 2008 Grand Final, because they fielded an illegal team in THAT one too! :-/

Cam Smith not playing may have brought them under the cap ;-)

LOL! Yeah, that's right.

But re 2007, I just think it is unfair that we are still considered to have "lost" that game when we weren't really given a fair chance to win it, as the other team was cheating. Why should they be credited with having "won" it at all? :huh:

 

[manlyfan76]

And 14 other teams didn't lose it either as they were cheated by the storm also?

 

[Ingleburn SeaEagles]

Should be classed as a 'no contest'.
A team or individual using illegal tactics to gain advantage, or something like that.

 

[Hamster Huey]

We lost. Nobody won. Let's move on.

 

[Nuttybott]

Should be classed as a 'no contest'.
A team or individual using illegal tactics to gain advantage, or something like that.

I agree with this...

We lost. Nobody won. Let's move on.

...but not this. In order to say we "lost", somebody else has to have "won". The Melbourne Storm had the 2007 Premiership stripped from them...so they are now not recognised as having "won" it at all. So it is grossly unfair to say that we "lost", in a contest that everyone assumed at the time was being played according to the rules, but was later proven to have not been contested fairly.

So I think a "no contest" should be the result recorded in the record books...

 

[clontaago]

But there was a contest, which we lost.

 

[MissKate]

According to all the Manly haters - we lost

To all the deluded scum team and their supporters - they still think they won the premiership

Quote from inglis interview "I would like to win a premiership with souffs as well"............. as well as what/where/when??

 

[Ingleburn SeaEagles]

But there was a contest, which we lost.

Maybe we can class it as a exhibition match? : )

 

[Brookie Brawler]

This thread illustrates the type of uncertainty and angst that will continue to fester regarding the years affected by the storm's cheating.

What a mess they made! Then to a man they refused to apologise while the NRL basically stood by and allowed Waldron and the board to take the fall while letting everyone else off scott free so they could continue to play the victim and twist the knife with comments like "we still know that we won those grand finals".

Yes "CONTROL-FREAK-COACH-WHO-KNEW-ABSOLUTELY-NOTHING-ABOUT-THE-CONTRACTS-OF-HIS-STAR-PLAYERS", "STAR-PLAYERS-WHO-INNOCENTLY-SIGNED-MULTIPLE-CONTRACTS" and "HARD-DONE-BY-PLAYER-AGENTS-WHO-DREW-UP-MULTIPLE-CONTRACTS-AND-GOT-PUNISHED-WITH-UM-...-NOTHING" I'm talking about you!

Did any player have to give back their Premiership rings ala olympic gold medals being confiscated retrospectively due to cheating? NO!

Maybe they should have had their rings taken back as well as any premiers tattoos removed or amended to include the word CHEATS.

No matter what the bulldogs or any other club get up to I will always reserve my most severe hatred for the purple cheats, at least while those involved remain free to go about their business virtually unpunished.

Sorry got a bit sidetracked there. In my mind we lost the 07 GF the same as the dragons, eels & broncos lost Preliminary Finals against them in that period.

 

[globaleagle]

Don't know the official win/loss line.

Premiership should have been awarded to Manly ala Olympic style.

Nice to have 2008 and 2011 though isn't it? 🙂

I just tell people we have won 3 in 5 years.

 

[StuBoot]

Move on people please.
Storm got caught rorting the cap - at that stage nobody knew so play on - We lost, runners up.
We beat them 40 blot when they were still rorting the cap - nobody knew - We won , legends, unprecedented margin, forever bragging rights.
Move on, we've got one of the best records ( if not the best ) of GF wins / appearances for the last 40 years so why quibble over sh!t.
There'll always be people that think Snake is guilty, nothing happened with the Doggies at Coffs, Benji jobbed someone at Maccas and Greg Inglis bought his boat!
It aint worth the heartache!
Look people in the eye and tell them you're a Sea Eagles supporter and everything else pales into insignifigance.

 

[Nuttybott]

This thread illustrates the type of uncertainty and angst that will continue to fester regarding the years affected by the storm's cheating.

What a mess they made! Then to a man they refused to apologise while the NRL basically stood by and allowed Waldron and the board to take the fall while letting everyone else off scott free so they could continue to play the victim and twist the knife with comments like "we still know that we won those grand finals".

Yes "CONTROL-FREAK-COACH-WHO-KNEW-ABSOLUTELY-NOTHING-ABOUT-THE-CONTRACTS-OF-HIS-STAR-PLAYERS", "STAR-PLAYERS-WHO-INNOCENTLY-SIGNED-MULTIPLE-CONTRACTS" and "HARD-DONE-BY-PLAYER-AGENTS-WHO-DREW-UP-MULTIPLE-CONTRACTS-AND-GOT-PUNISHED-WITH-UM-...-NOTHING" I'm talking about you!

Did any player have to give back their Premiership rings ala olympic gold medals being confiscated retrospectively due to cheating? NO!

Maybe they should have had their rings taken back as well as any premiers tattoos removed or amended to include the word CHEATS.

No matter what the bulldogs or any other club get up to I will always reserve my most severe hatred for the purple cheats, at least while those involved remain free to go about their business virtually unpunished.

Yes, despite all of the NRL's posturing about coming down hard on the Storm, in actual fact they let them off quite lightly. Really, the Storm should have been expelled from the NRL altogether and the club closed down over that scandal...and had they not been the NRL's pet club - owned by News Ltd - I have no doubt they would have been.

But your Olympic analogy is quite apt...the Storm's 2007 and 2009 Premiership rings should be taken back from the players, and no evidence of those "wins" allowed to remain. In fact, the entire 2007 and 2009 seasons should be declared void and recorded as "no result".

Whatever anyone says, we were not in a fair fight in the 2007 GF...and the record books should reflect this.

Move on, we've got one of the best records ( if not the best ) of GF wins / appearances for the last 40 years so why quibble over sh!t.

We have an even better one if we don't have to count 2007 as a "loss".

And I never quibble over swear words with an exclamation mark replacing one of the letters to get it past the Forum Rules! 😀

 

[Canteen Worker]

If it means that Parra have not won a comp since 1986 I am happy to not have the 2007 premiership counted as ours. 🙂

 

[Cameron]

If it means that Parra have not won a comp since 1986 I am happy to not have the 2007 premiership counted as ours. 🙂

See I think the final series of 2007 and 2009 should be deemed null and void making both years first past the post there for
2007 premiers are manly
2009 premiers st George Illawarra mean both clubs went back to back

 

[Mals]

See I think the final series of 2007 and 2009 should be deemed null and void making both years first past the post there for
2007 premiers are manly
2009 premiers st George Illawarra mean both clubs went back to back

At the very least Manly should both be awarded the minor premiership in 2007.

 

[Hamster Huey]

Should be classed as a 'no contest'.
A team or individual using illegal tactics to gain advantage, or something like that.

I agree with this...

We lost. Nobody won. Let's move on.

...but not this. In order to say we "lost", somebody else has to have "won". The Melbourne Storm had the 2007 Premiership stripped from them...so they are now not recognised as having "won" it at all. So it is grossly unfair to say that we "lost", in a contest that everyone assumed at the time was being played according to the rules, but was later proven to have not been contested fairly.

So I think a "no contest" should be the result recorded in the record books...

The same team cheated in 2007 as did in 2008. Do we distinguish a difference just because we happened to win one of those contests? What of those teams knocked out of the finals by the Storm, that were denied a genuine shot at us in 2008 or 2007?

Even talk of MPs doesn't sit well with me. 15 other clubs suffered results against them from the Storm, and to suggest we would definitely have won a MP, ignores almost two dozen other rounds that had ongoing affects on the table and opposition teams.

What's done is done. The NRL decided not to touch results in years that Melbourne didn't win a GF, so we should be happy with that stance, and move on.