Best halfback

[Ranga]

In the thread about Snake, where much more knowledgeable folk than I were debating and comparing the virtues of Wombat v Snake, I think it was @Bearfax who said the greatness of Snake made people forget how awesome Wombat really was (I hope I’ve got that paraphrase correctly). He then went on to say that Johnny Gibbs was a gun and it is only because of Toovey that we forget about how good he was.

I am 35 y/o so have seen halves Toovey, Ox and DCE. On this forum, Toovey is rightfully a legend as he epitomises everything Manly is. However, if I was to rate Toovey and DCE side by side, DCE enters the discussion for Manly’s best ever half. Both won one premiership and the number of representative games for both is pretty equal.

So, if he is not there yet, what do you think DCE needs to do to be regarded as Manly’s greatest ever half or do you think it is a position he will never hold?

 

[manlyfan76]

Craig Field had killer attack.

 

[Nice Beaver]

I think given the big deal he is on, he needs to win at least another premiership.

I rate the bloke. If it wasn't for his polarising personality (which I personally don't mind at all) then he would be held in far higher regard already.

But one....hopefully two...more premierships to be up top.

In my opinion.

 

[brad]

Toovey would have gone down as one , if not the greatest ever halfbacks if he possessed a kicking game . He only ever started to throw the odd grubber in late in his career ( 1996) gf. Still pound for pound the toughest 7s I've seen . Dce has the complete game ( nothing against Tooves) , he's tough , can kick , organize the complete half in my opinion. Its a tough one , tooves had a great 6 inside him most of his career as well without to many interuptions . Dce by a NECK...

 

[Ranga]

There is no doubt that much is expected of DCE given his contract value and rightfully so. There is also what I will call the “personality tax” that he has to pay for some (not for me, I really like the bloke although he does say “certainly” too much). But if you remove the contract value expectation and “personality tax”, I think it is arguable that he is already our best ever.

 

[Ranga]

Toovey would have gone down as one , if not the greatest ever halfbacks if he possessed a kicking game . He only ever started to throw the odd grubber in late in his career ( 1996) gf. Still pound for pound the toughest 7s I've seen . Dce has the complete game ( nothing against Tooves) , he's tough , can kick , organize the complete half in my opinion. Its a tough one , tooves had a great 6 inside him most of his career as well without to many interuptions . Dce by a NECK...

I didn’t think about Toovey’s lack of kicking game. I used to think he was better as a hooker too.
DCE by a neck - love it!!!

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Toovey would have gone down as one , if not the greatest ever halfbacks if he possessed a kicking game . He only ever started to throw the odd grubber in late in his career ( 1996) gf. Still pound for pound the toughest 7s I've seen . Dce has the complete game ( nothing against Tooves) , he's tough , can kick , organize the complete half in my opinion. Its a tough one , tooves had a great 6 inside him most of his career as well without to many interuptions . Dce by a NECK...

I know who I want want leading Manly into the fray from halfback and it isn't DCE.

 

[KNUCKLES]

Toovey would have gone down as one , if not the greatest ever halfbacks if he possessed a kicking game . He only ever started to throw the odd grubber in late in his career ( 1996) gf. Still pound for pound the toughest 7s I've seen . Dce has the complete game ( nothing against Tooves) , he's tough , can kick , organize the complete half in my opinion. Its a tough one , tooves had a great 6 inside him most of his career as well without to many interuptions . Dce by a NECK...

A longneck, in DCEs case is quite the margin. Or lengthy unit of measurement. Toovey isn't that far off is he??

 

[Shoe1]

In my memory period, say 1975 to today it is quite interesting that we don’t have a halfback that was the best over a long period. Ward and Junee didn’t stand out for me, but rather Alan Thomson was the constant creative spark in the halves throughout the 70s.

Gibbs and Blake are unmatched for attacking brilliance in my mind. Steve martin played for Australia but I’d call him solid rather than brilliant.

Des was really good in the mid 80s. Tooves had an amazing competitive spirit, great defence and good passing. The sort of half who touched the ball 6 times in every set of six.

Ox was solid.

Dce has it all and I’d probably say he is the best all around manly halfback in the past 40 years.

 

[EaglesDontTweet]

So I thought I'd just find and throw in a clip of a Johnny Gibbs classic chip and chase then pass to Gartner or Eadie so I googled it and up popped this one by Ron Gibbs in 1987.......great try by the second rower..........

 

[Stuey Davis’s Socks]

Terrific try, very similar to the much more well known Steve Gearin classic from the 1980 GF. Noticed one of our best ever wingers first in there congratulating Rambo too, great stuff.

 

[Simonmyers11]

DCE for me. Watched both play there entire careers. DCE has had to deal with a lot of off field drama over the past for years and i think we are yet to see his best. A very complete player and just as competitive as Tooves. Definitely more gifted.

 

[niccipops]

We're comparing different generations so it's very difficult. DCE has talent to boot but what Tooves contributed to Manly is legendary. Just my opinion. Maybe I'll think about DCE in that way some day. Hopefully so.

 

[MadMarcus]

Toovey would have gone down as one , if not the greatest ever halfbacks if he possessed a kicking game . He only ever started to throw the odd grubber in late in his career ( 1996) gf. Still pound for pound the toughest 7s I've seen . Dce has the complete game ( nothing against Tooves) , he's tough , can kick , organize the complete half in my opinion. Its a tough one , tooves had a great 6 inside him most of his career as well without to many interuptions . Dce by a NECK...

I’m sure I remember the chip and chase being a part of Toovey’s game when he came into grade... but I was pretty young, am I imagining that? He never has a long kicking game though.

 

[double hoops]

DCE may have more strings to his bow. But does that really mean he is entitled to stand in 2vs shadow just yet?

One captained his side to a GF victory.
One has not.

One immediately just invokes tough tougher nope the toughest.
The other hmmmm hmmmm not so much.

One at what about 16 years age. single handedly destroyed the might of the entire touring English test team.
Not sure the other has ever single handledly beat England.

For one, size wasn't an obstacle. How others thought about size is what made them weak. So he just didn't think like that. I cant help but think back to when David met Galioth. Toovey was up against Paul Huff at his prime. The Australian fullbacks Daddy Long Long legs just left everyone in his wake. Everyone but this little terrier who parted the seas to tackle Galioth that is. Toovs just chopping him in half at the ankles and the Giant come crashing down. Time after time. In Game after Game after Game.

Chez is a big body and saying he is close to if not the best defensive half in the game at the moment, probably isn't too far off. But I'd hardly say Chez plays above his weigh or uses his solid frame that well. He runs and tackles his heart out I'll give him that.

But I'd still argue Chez right now isn't half the defender 2v was. And I'm not being disrespectful to Chez's defence.

One is just a leader. I don't think too many people alive have the Aura that just makes you want to follow them, like Geoff does. He just makes you want to go to war for him.

Chez is captain. I still think Chez can be an Australian Captain one day. But I don't sense a natural leader all the same.

In my mind there running games in attack are on par.

For DCE to even be considered in the ball park with Geoff I want to see a captain leading his team to grand final glory, playing that organising, kicking, steering role. Steering his men.

I think DCE is only just getting comfortable as an organiser. He has been lost between wanting to be an ad lib runner or steering half for way too long.

Let's hope DCE adds to his case for best.

 

[HappilyManly]

I’m sure I remember the chip and chase being a part of Toovey’s game when he came into grade... but I was pretty young, am I imagining that? He never has a long kicking game though.

I don't recall 2v kicking but lament Manly's inability to reproduce his many scrum base tries

Chez has all the talent but his results are diminished by the last 3 years in a weakened roster.

2v was always playing in a strong Manly team.

People forget that in the 90s Manly had a stacked Club of Internationals much like the Rorters have now (but no spending limits back then)

Both put in 100% on the field and their workrate is commendable

 

[Woodsie]

Old story of different eras diffrent style of players .. both outstanding .. DCE more talented but 2V a competitor and warrior .... you would pay to have DCE at half and 2V at hooker

Best ever ? .... Johnny Mayes would have to get a mention ..... 3 premierships in 3 years '73, '74' '75 ......

 

[manly al]

Totally relevant point with the different era and playing style and attributes aspect . D C E does offer the better all round range of skills and talent but Tooves and even Des Hasler were every bit as important with their respective playing ability and value to their sides in their specific eras . John Mayes played in some pretty hot sides at the time and certainly did look impressive with his support play and finishing but personally would not place him ahead of D C E , Tooves or Hasler . D C E just with his more complete range of skills and undoubted playing ability would probably get the nod . [ regardless of neck considerations as well ]

 

[mozgrame]

DCE vs Tooves. Reminds me of our backline a few years ago.

The tough no nonsense working side - Foran, Matai, Jorge.

The flash skilly side - DCE, Lyon, Wolfie.

Tough choice and one I can't make.

The best number 7 I have ever seen was Matty Smith. Tough, fast, hard defender, excellent organiser and great goal/general play kicker.

 

[manly al]

DCE vs Tooves. Reminds me of our backline a few years ago.

The tough no nonsense working side - Foran, Matai, Jorge.

The flash skilly side - DCE, Lyon, Wolfie.

Tough choice and one I can't make.

The best number 7 I have ever seen was Matty Smith. Tough, fast, hard defender, excellent organiser and great goal/general play kicker.

Was he the guy playing for Brisbane Norths some seasons ago ?