"Defence" - What defence ??

[maxta]

IF Manly are somehow going to compete in 2021, the defence needs to improve big time.
The oldest theory in Rugby league is defence wins games, though with the sprinkling of touch footy in the modern game it is becoming - Outscore the opposition ....
1 thing that rings true is the defence will definately show a teams Attitude and energy levels, which sadly for Manly has shown them up.
Yes we keep on raving about key players out, which is no doubt very true....but teams like a spare parts Warriors side or jaded Titans side, are pushing through and competing every play on will to win and guts....the area Manly used to thrive on.
Add Tom and Schu just for a start will offer far more points to Manly in attack, but unless the defence improves dramatically, will have to win shootouts like 36-32 every week, as those teams not willing to dig deep and commit defensively are caught out in the frantic speed of the modern game...and once some momentum kicks in, like yesterdays game...the opposition will put on 3 - 4 or 5 tries in quick succession, to blow the game apart.
Maybe get Tooves in to teach these blokes a bit more about tackling and defence, if he borrowed his heart and attitude yesterday would have won that game by 30....who is the defensive coach...I heard Cartwrong was a part of this which would explain a few things, but though it had to be some sort of stitch up.

 

[BOZO]

IF Manly are somehow going to compete in 2021, the defence needs to improve big time.
The oldest theory in Rugby league is defence wins games, though with the sprinkling of touch footy in the modern game it is becoming - Outscore the opposition ....
1 thing that rings true is the defence will definately show a teams Attitude and energy levels, which sadly for Manly has shown them up.
Yes we keep on raving about key players out, which is no doubt very true....but teams like a spare parts Warriors side or jaded Titans side, are pushing through and competing every play on will to win and guts....the area Manly used to thrive on.
Add Tom and Schu just for a start will offer far more points to Manly in attack, but unless the defence improves dramatically, will have to win shootouts like 36-32 every week, as those teams not willing to dig deep and commit defensively are caught out in the frantic speed of the modern game...and once some momentum kicks in, like yesterdays game...the opposition will put on 3 - 4 or 5 tries in quick succession, to blow the game apart.
Maybe get Tooves in to teach these blokes a bit more about tackling and defence, if he borrowed his heart and attitude yesterday would have won that game by 30....who is the defensive coach...I heard Cartwrong was a part of this which would explain a few things, but though it had to be some sort of stitch up.

Yes feathered friend . The games is becoming like touch footy and you know what happens in a game of touch footy dont you ?
The side that has the fastest kids win

 

[Tomay]

I’d like to see us get back to just hitting hard and forgetting about wrestling. The best manly teams I remember all hit so hard the opposition didn’t want to run against us. I’d also like to see us slide sometimes rather than just going overboard with the up and in.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Our defensive systems are inept and clearly don’t work in the modern game. Big change in our defensive systems are required. If we don’t change we will be competing for the wooden spoon next year.

 

[mickqld]

My fear is Des will concentrate over summer on defense but the game's rules have shifted to an all out attack mentallity base. We don't have any speed /power to compete on that front.

 

[BOZO]

Our defensive systems are inept and clearly don’t work in the modern game. Big change in our defensive systems are required. If we don’t change we will be competing for the wooden spoon next year.

Without resilient defensive players no defensive system works

 

[ricardo]

Last four games we scored 32, 32, 24 & 28 and only won one game. The season looks like that with a few exceptions. Can't blame injuries and 6 again rules for that.

 

[Woodsie]

5 things Max .. more interested in your assessment than my own preconceived view ..

1 .. Is it mainly our defensive structure at fault ?
2 .. Is it an inability by the team to implement a good structure ?
3 .. Is it a lack of individual player's ability/willingness to read the attack and tackle ?
4 .. Has the modern game highlighted the flaws in the up and in ... the speed makes it easier to catch a defensive mis-read, slow markers or shortage on numbers .. ?
5 .. They say, correctly, that defence starts with attitude ... but can attitude defend a 4 on 2 play 5 metres out ?

 

[bSw]

I’d like to see us get back to just hitting hard and forgetting about wrestling. The best manly teams I remember all hit so hard the opposition didn’t want to run against us. I’d also like to see us slide sometimes rather than just going overboard with the up and in.

Without guys like choc and skivvy (right) and gifty and killer (left) aggressively owning their edges, up and in style is utterly redundant. I agree, with the players we have, a fast sliding defence would be far more effective. And absolutely, first contact so crucial - a big reason why I'm a huge Saddler fan. Bring Tooves back for defence, and unless Donny can dramatically change his programme, I would also say bring in a more modern-type trainer. Foz' attitude will do wonders for the younger ones, and Jake needs a massive off season to get strength and mobility like last season. Des has his work cut out, if it weren't for Seibold royally screwing up the broncos, we would have come real close to the spoon. I'm still in disbelief that a Hasler coached side ran out in 2020

 

[bSw]

5 things Max .. more interested in your assessment than my own preconceived view ..

1 .. Is it mainly our defensive structure at fault ?
2 .. Is it an inability by the team to implement a good structure ?
3 .. Is it a lack of individual player's ability/willingness to read the attack and tackle ?
4 .. Has the modern game highlighted the flaws in the up and in ... the speed makes it easier to catch a defensive mis-read, slow markers or shortage on numbers .. ?
5 .. They say, correctly, that defence starts with attitude ... but can attitude defend a 4 on 2 play 5 metres out ?

All 5... but definitely Cartwright had a great time destroying our culture from within

 

[Damien2812]

Yes feathered friend . The games is becoming like touch footy and you know what happens in a game of touch footy dont you ?
The side that has the fastest kids win

Very true that statement. The game is getting hard to watch now..

 

[BOZO]

Very true that statement. The game is getting hard to watch now..

I am enjoying the game more as it is a game for the fastest and fittest athletes
Skill and power is there as well !

 

[BOZO]

Defence ?......... WTF ?...... What Defence ?

Its catch me if you Can !

Welcome back to the Centres 2021 Dylan

 

[BOZO]

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Bring Tooves back for defence, and unless Donny can dramatically change his programme, I would also say bring in a more modern-type trainer.

I'm not really convinced we are lacking in physical fitness, rather it is the mental side, including confidence, desire and just knowing where to be.
I am reminded of everyone saying how that bearded guy from the Titans didn't get our guys fit when he was here in the Barrett years. Well he's back up there again and they looked fit enough when winning their last 5 games.
As for Donny, his knowledge of physical fitness won't ever go out of date. However he's also been a big motivator in the past, so maybe that is the area we need help, rather than just physical training?

 

[pjayz]

Personally I would be recruiting Brent Kite for a defensive coaching position. The guy was a strong defender, hard worker, has coaching credentials in lower grades and would have the respect of the Polynesian youngsters as he knows many of the trials they have faced growing up and he was able to use them to forge a successful career. He was an awesome representative of our club on and off the field.

 

[maxta]

5 things Max .. more interested in your assessment than my own preconceived view ..

1 .. Is it mainly our defensive structure at fault ?
2 .. Is it an inability by the team to implement a good structure ?
3 .. Is it a lack of individual player's ability/willingness to read the attack and tackle ?
4 .. Has the modern game highlighted the flaws in the up and in ... the speed makes it easier to catch a defensive mis-read, slow markers or shortage on numbers .. ?
5 .. They say, correctly, that defence starts with attitude ... but can attitude defend a 4 on 2 play 5 metres out ?

Hey Woodsie my good man...
Structures appear to predictably be up and in, regardless of the situation and against a team who can switch or plays with depth like Rabbits...will lead to big scores.
The individual side is really important, as it leads into your point 5....the contacts are pretty soft allowing the opposition attack to offload and bend the line at will and create those numbers - 4 on 2 ect, where our outside backs already under pressure are missing many 1 on 1 tackles....but truth be known, it starts in the middle and we are losing the collisions and allowing the quick plays, blowing up the middle, which then open up the numbers out wide.
The modern game has 100% opened up the deficiencies Manly have in relation to confidence and attitude well off....the best teams who compete hard in the finals will actually defend their mistakes, penalties or copping a bad call, whereas the mentally weaker teams will be punished in the modern game and the flood gates will open.

 

[sheridanstand78]

The last 8 weeks in particular have shown how often we lose the field position battle as we do not get many goaline drop outs or look threatening from attacking kicks yet we concede try and try from kicks and concede resets and our overworked defence is just not up to it.

Also our ball security is a major issue, you will not win many games while conceding 25 percent of your possession through unforced errors.

This is a game about discipline and we conceded the most set resets and gave teams too many easy outs when we had them pinned.

Over the offseason there needs to be a big focus on getting the basics right. We need more territory in games, more resilience when we have heat on us and need to be able to counter attack, look how devastating the Titans are in that regard. Quick turnovers change games and we rarely run the full length of the field to score these days.

Lots to work on for 2021!

 

[bSw]

Without resilient defensive players no defensive system works

I'm not really convinced we are lacking in physical fitness, rather it is the mental side, including confidence, desire and just knowing where to be.
I am reminded of everyone saying how that bearded guy from the Titans didn't get our guys fit when he was here in the Barrett years. Well he's back up there again and they looked fit enough when winning their last 5 games.
As for Donny, his knowledge of physical fitness won't ever go out of date. However he's also been a big motivator in the past, so maybe that is the area we need help, rather than just physical training?

Agree that the mental side is just as, if not more, important... This would fall more under Des' job description. Still think Donny's programme is based on power with longer rests between sets. Before the rule change, this worked well as the team needed power for 6 tackles, and if there was a penalty or repeat set for the opposition, we would re-oxygenate (and re-set our line). Unfortunately, manly was the only team who literally couldn't adapt to continuous sets. This is definitely a cardiovascular issue too, as well as a structural issue (defense). I remember in 2010, manly limped into the 8, and got belted first week by dragons. Immediately, des and donny modified their conditioning program, and the boys came out fitter and lighter in 2011. We definitely need a similar change

 

[bSw]

Personally I would be recruiting Brent Kite for a defensive coaching position. The guy was a strong defender, hard worker, has coaching credentials in lower grades and would have the respect of the Polynesian youngsters as he knows many of the trials they have faced growing up and he was able to use them to forge a successful career. He was an awesome representative of our club on and off the field.

Apparently he's a pretty decent coach too