Hillsborough

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

Vid you have to have a following of football & love Liverpool to understand about hillsborough.Apart from a small minority on this forum most wouldn't even know what hillsborough is so i don't know why you'd waste your time on a thread like this.Walk on Liverpool in your heart & all those that died in that fa cup tie.

 

[The Wheel]

The doco is on tomorrow night (Thursday) at 9:30 pm if anyone is interested.

I read the reports on the internet site Vid included - I wonder if the police chief sleeps well at night?

 

[vidmar]

Tookey - much appreciated
All good - thanks

Pontian - Take your point but posts like this (I feel) are important in raising awareness of what happened and hopefully will ensure we'll never have such a tragedy again. JFT96

Wheel - Correct, I'm normally very supportive of the police force who do a very difficult job under difficult conditions. The gross incompetance shown that day is only overshadowed by the criminal cover up and apportion of blame that followed. The doco will really make you think and knowing you it will certainly make you reflect for a moment.....

 

[Volley]

Tookey, thanks for getting back.
Yes, tragedies occur every day to every day people.
My post was as a mark of respect to those who died and those who to this day still suffer.
I agree that humour can help in desperate times BUT there is a time and a place and your post was in poor taste, ill judged and not in keeping with the thread no matter how well intentioned it was.
God forbid that any of us or our families or friends have to go through what thousands of people went through 20 years ago today.
Volley - don't know what prompted you to get involved but no high horses over here....just sadness, basic human decency and a show of respect for the men, women and children that died because they went to see a game of footy.

Good to see you're still up there.

Yeah it was sh*t, but sh*t things happen every day. I'd rather come on here and read some funny sh*t, than some depressing sh*t that happened 20 years ago.

What this has to do with Manly is something else I'm wondering.

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

Not sure you can blame the police that day,they were simply outnumbered by Liverpool supporters rioting outside wanting to get in.The groundsmen had no choice but to open the gates to which that goal end where the Liverpool supporters were gathered was allready filled.The crowd outside then ran in pushing forward those allready inside & stampeding on everyone killing all those that died.Ps vid we need united to drop points the next few weeks. 

 

[mwsneagle]

Sorrow cannot express the sadness these families must be feeling, at the time and always.

Mr & Mrs Hicks are at the very least stoic, as were all the other victims families and the injured, the strength to be interviewed was incredible and the way they both carried themselves .... I don't think I could have done it - even after 20 years.

I can certainly understand the anger they feel not only towards some of the police but most definitely the "Sun" reporting (I read up this morning - think of the worst swear words possible for that publication).

Thank you for posting this may all the victims Rest In Peace, may their families and the collateral victims from this disaster also find pease and may the 96 PLEASE find justice.

 

[mwsneagle]

Vidmar - forgot to say you owe me a box of tissues.....

 

[The Wheel]

Cannot believe the simple decision not to close the gate to the tunnell to the end cage when it was already overcrowded cost 96 lives. 

Also some of the events afterwards were beyond belief, inparticular Mrs Hicks (who lost both her daughters) was not allowed to see the body to say goodbye because it was now the property of the coroner...

 

[nita]

does anyone know if is there a repeat of this at some point?

 

[The Wheel]

http://www.historychannel.com.au/tv-guide/default.aspx

1:30 PM today on the history channel

 

[vidmar]

Not sure you can blame the police that day,they were simply outnumbered by Liverpool supporters rioting outside wanting to get in.The groundsmen had no choice but to open the gates to which that goal end where the Liverpool supporters were gathered was allready filled.The crowd outside then ran in pushing forward those allready inside & stampeding on everyone killing all those that died.Ps vid we need united to drop points the next few weeks. 

Sorry Pontian but you are wrong on your point.
Not sure if you saw the doco last night or have read the links that I posted (The independant report into the tragedy (The Taylor report) places the blame squarlely on the loss of control by the police....

"THE TAYLOR REPORTS (source http://www.liv.ac.uk/footballindustry/hborough.html)

The failure to close or block the tunnel leading into the already full pens three and four once the police had ordered Gate C to be opened was the immediate cause of the disaster, but the public inquiries set up by the Thatcher Government under Lord Justice Peter Taylor found, more generally, that football had simply not learned anything from the numerous disasters in its past, that it and the police were so
obsessed with the threat of violence that they were unable to spot people in genuine danger of their lives, that police fundamentally lost control of the situation, and did not demonstrate the leadership expected of senior officers, that safety procedures were inadequate, that the ground was badly maintained and dangerous, that fans were routinely treated with contempt by football, and that fans had been the victims
rather the guilty party. His reports, published in August 1989 and January 1990, dismissed the allegations against Liverpool supporters for the disaster, and called instead for a total rethink in the industry's attitudes towards fans, and on the issue of safety. It also highlighted the failures by local authorities to check safety certificates for stadia (Sheffield Wednesday had redeveloped parts of the ground without obtaining a new safety certificate, or telling the emergency services: the result was that the safety certificate was outdated and useless, and that plans Sheffield Wednesday had developed with the local emergency services could not be put into practice, as the layout of the ground had changed).

 

[DVS Matt]

I watched it last night. I wasn't aware of the incident myself before this thread came up.

It was quite moving listening to the parents of kids that were killed in the crush.

I have been in the thick of a crush before (not as serious as that) but it is damn frightening when you don't have any control of what is happening and you're at the mercy of others.

I reckon it would of been damn near impossible to close of the gate to the main pen once they realised it was becoming overcrowded. The police literally couldn't move through the crowd and would of been next to no hope of closing those giant swinging doors.

It went wrong from the moment they decided not to separate people to different pens like they had done in previous matches. I'm not sure what the rationale was behind that, but it was ultimately the beginning of a sequal of events that cost 96 people their lives.

I was hoping the doco was going to delve a bit more into the police actions of the day - but they left it mainly untouched and focussed on the victims families and the players.

All in all - very insightful

 

[vidmar]

I know there will be some who are wondering what this has to do with them or why it is in this forum and I apologise if it detracts from the enjoyment of the excellent website that Dan makes available to us – If that’s the case…sorry, just move on and there’s no need to read any further on this thread?.

BUT….and yes a big but…incidents like Hillsboro and the learnings as a result of the series of small but significant incidents are important to all sports fans who ever go to a stadium for an event (Case in point the antiquated facilities and condition of our own ground….) so please humour me and Dan many thanks for allowing this to remain in this forum where it will get best exposure.

Also thanks to the numerous people who have emailed me messages of support or called me to thank me for posting this.

Thanks DVS and the others who have posted on this and glad that some of you were able to watch the documentary and/or have been made aware of what happened in Sheffield 20 years ago.

As mentioned in a previous post, I've been to many of these games and in my youth stood on the famous Spion Kop which although a great atmosphere could be a scary place with a mass of bodies swaying and tumbling down the terraces where you literally had no choice on where your body was taken.

I've been to Hillsborough a number of times (it was common for that ground to be chosen as a "neutral" venue for FA cup semi finals as was usually the case) and can remember a cordon was usually set up where you had to shown your ticket before you could get to the turnstile (A bit like the bag checking that we now get at games here) to avoid people "bunking in" (Jumping the turnstiles) - this didn't happen at this game.

There were requests by the Liverpool officials asking for the kick off to be delayed due to large numbers of traveling fans being delayed by road works and a car accident on the motorway heading to Sheffield - this was denied which of course was just one more piece in the jigsaw that saw large numbers of fans all arriving at the same time and rushing to get in to the game.

One of the last time I was at Anfield was with my father not long before he died around 9 years ago and I remember we visited the Hillsboro monument at the corner of the Anfield Rd end before we played Leeds United.

As we stood there quietly just looking at the names on the board and the flowers, scarves and other things that had been placed on it by family, friends and everyday people a guy in his early twenties approached the monument.

This guy was a big hard looking lad and somebody you wouldn't want to argue with but he stepped forward, gently touched a name on the board and we heard him whisper "I'll see you in there mate...." he then stood for a moment, wiped his eyes and then went on his way.

It was then when we lost it and hugged each other sobbing...so so sad.

People like the Hicks family, Anne Williams and many, many others have suffered terribly and posts like this help educate people on what happened that day and ensure that their fight for justice continues to this day.

I was talking to a person yesterday who posts on here regularly and he mentioned that one of his work colleagues was from Liverpool and had a neighbour who died at the game and I explained that there were very few from the city or who supported the team who weren't touched personally in some way by the tragedy (myself included) which is why it is still so fresh in the minds of people some 20 years later.

And don't get me started about the rag of newspaper or that c**t Mackenzie .....
http://www.lfclondon.co.uk/history/Boycott_The_Sun_Newspaper.aspx

 

[Volley]

Also thanks to the numerous people who have emailed me messages of support or called me to thank me for posting this.

That's a gee up right?

 

[vidmar]

[quote author=vidmar link=topic=180115.msg219558#msg219558 date=1239928178]
Also thanks to the numerous people who have emailed me messages of support or called me to thank me for posting this.

That's a gee up right?


[/quote]

"I know there will be some who are wondering what this has to do with them or why it is in this forum and I apologise if it detracts from the enjoyment of the excellent website that Dan makes available to us – If that’s the case…sorry, just move on and there’s no need to read any further on this thread?."

Don't know who you are Volley, what particular axe you have to grind or why you feel the need to get involved in this - and to be honest don't really care....Just go away or you and me are going to fall out?

Alternatively - If you have an issue with me or my posts please feel free to IM me so we can take this off the public forum?

 

[Volley]

I don't have a problem with you. I just find it hard to believe people actually rang you up and thanked you for posting on a forum.

Carry on.