Jamie Lyon....where does he rate for all time centres?

[Lord Eagleton]

In what game?

 

[TWO DOGS]

Walker was the better centre in that game and Lyon was very quiet.

Two dogs, you should add the Black Pearl to that list.

Fluffy, I agree.

 

[Technical Coach]

I don't think the rep games argument carries much weight. The international arena is inferior in class to the week to week grind of the NRL anyway, and Killer has played in winning Origin teams in the early to mid 2000's.

Also, SOO is very much a horses for courses type selection strategy. Most years Snake gets overlooked because of an apparent lack of bulk, but no one is going to tell me that there is a better fullback in the game, even at this stage of his career. If Inglis or Hayne had have broken the game wide open like Snake did against Canterbury last week, it would have been all over the back page of the Telegraph. This is getting off topic now, but my point is, i've seen some lousy players play SOO, and some very good one's miss out.

Ok I wont waste time and tell you there are better fullbacks in the game at the moment.

 

[bob dylan]

I don't think the rep games argument carries much weight. The international arena is inferior in class to the week to week grind of the NRL anyway, and Killer has played in winning Origin teams in the early to mid 2000's.

Also, SOO is very much a horses for courses type selection strategy. Most years Snake gets overlooked because of an apparent lack of bulk, but no one is going to tell me that there is a better fullback in the game, even at this stage of his career. If Inglis or Hayne had have broken the game wide open like Snake did against Canterbury last week, it would have been all over the back page of the Telegraph. This is getting off topic now, but my point is, i've seen some lousy players play SOO, and some very good one's miss out.

Ok I wont waste time and tell you there are better fullbacks in the game at the moment.

I don't think anyone doubts that, 2 maybe 3 in the year 2014, other years 1 maybe 2. But Brett is the best fullback for Manly I am pretty sure of that.

 

[Technical Coach]

I don't think the rep games argument carries much weight. The international arena is inferior in class to the week to week grind of the NRL anyway, and Killer has played in winning Origin teams in the early to mid 2000's.

Also, SOO is very much a horses for courses type selection strategy. Most years Snake gets overlooked because of an apparent lack of bulk, but no one is going to tell me that there is a better fullback in the game, even at this stage of his career. If Inglis or Hayne had have broken the game wide open like Snake did against Canterbury last week, it would have been all over the back page of the Telegraph. This is getting off topic now, but my point is, i've seen some lousy players play SOO, and some very good one's miss out.

Ok I wont waste time and tell you there are better fullbacks in the game at the moment.

I don't think anyone doubts that, 2 maybe 3 in the year 2014, other years 1 maybe 2. But Brett is the best fullback for Manly I am pretty sure of that.

No doubt best Manly Fullback by a long way.

 

[Snake]

I don't think the rep games argument carries much weight. The international arena is inferior in class to the week to week grind of the NRL anyway, and Killer has played in winning Origin teams in the early to mid 2000's.

Also, SOO is very much a horses for courses type selection strategy. Most years Snake gets overlooked because of an apparent lack of bulk, but no one is going to tell me that there is a better fullback in the game, even at this stage of his career. If Inglis or Hayne had have broken the game wide open like Snake did against Canterbury last week, it would have been all over the back page of the Telegraph. This is getting off topic now, but my point is, i've seen some lousy players play SOO, and some very good one's miss out.

Ok I wont waste time and tell you there are better fullbacks in the game at the moment.

I made it pretty clear that the crux of my argument is that many good players miss out on rep teams, and occasionally some make it that probably shouldn't. But since you mention it, Slater, Inglis, Hayne, and Moylan, are all outstanding fullbacks, but I don't think they're better than Snake, just different. Snake is not perfect, but Slater can be suspect under the high ball, Inglis can be lazy and go missing in big games, ditto Hayne, and Moylan is still learning his craft. I make my own mind up as to a players worth, independent of the opinions of the media. They take a marketable product and run with it, influencing the majority of rugby league fans; how do think DCE won halfback of the year this season?!

Snake might not be the flashiest 1 in the game anymore, post injury, but he made some of the most astonishing cover tackles I have ever seen this year, was second to JT in try assists, scored some fine solo tries himself (one at Brookie against the Dogs, and one in the finals to break the game wide open), and cleaned up a lot of tricky situations. I respect your difference opinion, but I stand by my initial assertion.

 

[Technical Coach]

I was only replying to your line about no one will tell you or convince you that there is a better fullback around so I did not try and convince you.

In my opinion at Brett's peak he was close to the best but in terms of the present he is in the top 4-5 even though he has a more rounded skill level now.

This does not mean he has gone backwards in performance either, I rate him better now than the past.

 

[Snake]

I was only replying to your line about no one will tell you or convince you that there is a better fullback around so I did not try and convince you.

In my opinion at Brett's peak he was close to the best but in terms of the present he is in the top 4-5 even though he has a more rounded skill level now.

This does not mean he has gone backwards in performance either, I rate him better now than the past.

He certainly has more strings to his bow nowadays.

I'd be interested to know just out of curiosity who you rate as the best in the business these days?

I think Hayne can be exceptional, but he suffers from inconsistency, and at times appears to be reading from his own play book, not the teams.

I think Inglis is a freak at times, but is grossly overrated. He can go AWOL many times during a season, and then BAM he will barge through the defensive line, but I rarely see him do much more than that. His is a power game, with little variety. He falls over the line quite a bit (as Johnny on the spot) and the commentators go ballistic, and the paper give him a spread the next day. His performance in the preliminary final last year against us, as opposed to Snake, was chalk and cheese; GI went missing big time.

For me personally, if it's not Snake, I think Slater is the pick of the bunch.

 

[bob dylan]

I think we can safely say Dally Messenger was better than Lyon.

Although DM's defence may not be as good, cetainly his 27th tackle option was better than Jamies, and by a long way.

 

[EagleFromMay1967]

There have been some great centres over the years. Not so many at Manly of Killer's stature.
Bozo, maybe Snoz, Frog Eyes, Terry Hill for a while. Do not talk to me about R Branigan, i think you know where i stand with that one.
Throughout the other clubs, those whom i have 'seen live': Steve Rogers (the original Prince of Centres), Mick Cronin, Brett Kenny, Steve Ella, Mark Harris, Steve Renouf. Even Matt Cooper on his day. I never saw Reg Gasnier live. Old video replays of him show that he was the best on the park, in amongst illustrious company.

Clearly, Jamie is up with most of these guys. Long may he reign.

Its impossible to put them in a definitive order of greatest of all time.

 

[Snake]

There have been some great centres over the years. Not so many at Manly of Killer's stature.
Bozo, maybe Snoz, Frog Eyes, Terry Hill for a while. Do not talk to me about R Branigan, i think you know where i stand with that one.
Throughout the other clubs, those whom i have 'seen live': Steve Rogers (the original Prince of Centres), Mick Cronin, Brett Kenny, Steve Ella, Mark Harris, Steve Renouf. Even Matt Cooper on his day. I never saw Reg Gasnier live. Old video replays of him show that he was the best on the park, in amongst illustrious company.

Clearly, Jamie is up with most of these guys. Long may he reign.

Its impossible to put them in a definitive order of greatest of all time.

You didn't mention Mark Gasnier (and probably for good reason) who I think is just about the most gifted athlete I have ever seen, but was never good at the little things and appeared disinterested at times; the polar opposite of Jamie Lyon who I think is so much more valuable.

Gaz had lightening speed, was big and strong, had a wonderful flick pass, one of the best steps you'll ever see on a football field, and an almighty long pass, but he lacked heart.

Lyon on the other hand, had good speed, a reasonable step, a reasonable pass, and a great fend, before mentioning the biggest ticker, the best football brain, and did all the little things with 110% effort. He is a class above Gasnier, without being anywhere near the same athlete.

 

[Ryan]

Lyon is consistently the best centre I have ever seen in all facets of his game. With him in the team, we are always a chance of winning.

Yup, id root him, and I aint even gay. Who was it that used to claim theyd root him?

 

[EagleRock40]

Top 3 that I've seen in no particular order -

Killer
Steve Rogers
Meninga

He's right up there!!

 

[Snake]

There was a period there from about 2010-2012 where many said he was the best player in the game, not just the best centre, and from memory I have to agree. He was just in the game ALL the time. It was quite amazing to watch how competitive he was; his desperation used to jag us so many tries.

 

[The Who]

Bozo is definitely the best I've seen in 50+ years of watching RL. He was so dominant and could influence a game just as much as half-backs Joey Johns and Jonathan Thurston.
Meninga was big and strong. Cronin was consistent. Both kicked goals.
For all-round speed and skill it would be the three Steves - Zip-Zip Man, Steve Ella, Steve Renouf and Steve Rogers. (I never saw Gasnier live)
Jamie 'reads' the game as well as any of them and has elements of all. He's just a talented all-rounder who I fear is under-rated by all bar Manly supporters.

 

[Killer03]

I didn't have the privilege of seeing Bozo, so I'm really looking at it from about the mid 80s to now.

Meninga was such a different player, he reminds me today a bit of what Inglis is. Yes there's certainly skill, but he was just so powerful. Then there is Kenny, again to me he was mainly a 5/8, sure he was shunted out to the centres quite a bit so an aussie team could accommodate him and wally.
Personally I think Kenny is the only one in the last 30 years with a similar game to Killers, and I think that's because they both have that 5/8 ability about them.

Killer's best attributes is that he doesn't have one weakness in his game. His kicking game (and passing game) was certainly enhanced by his stint at 5/8 and this has really turned him into the classic modern day centre. What I agree with is when Warren Ryan, Gus Gould types just call him a 'footballer'. And I think that's true (and that sums up a lot of Manly players). He's not just an athlete who runs fast but his skill is lacking. Killer reads the game beautifully, and he really plays what's in front of him. I don't believe too many teams have (or have had) a centre who can have such a bearing on the games result.

As for the comments about Dylan Walker etc. I think (although he seems like a complete knob) he has plenty of potential and has played really well this year, but he needs to do that for the next 8-10years. It's no coincidence that from 07 to now we have been the most dominant team in the NRL. Now that's not all about Killer, but in that period he has been simply awesome. So when Keary, Walker and all those little smart a%%%es at Souths stand up for the next 8 years, I'll hail them as greats. Until then King Killer (the 9th immortal) rules!