League v Union

[Shnorky]

Hi guys, I need some words of advice, as this is a rugby league forum I guess I can openly discuss my disapproval of other codes.

My youngest boy plays both league and union, loves league, tolerates union, but loves the football in his hands. My oldest tried union for one season but hated it. I’ve never watched a proper game of union and never will, however I don’t get the attraction to union. There are 4 teams in his age group at the union club and only 2 in his league, the parents think the union is just terrific, the game they play in heaven so they say.

So I watched his game yesterday as I do and will always support whatever he wants to play, but after watching very little actual football in the 1st half, I thought I’d time the amount of football played in 2nd half. So within a 25 minute half – there was 7 minutes and 13 seconds of football played, that’s 28% of the game is actual football, as opposed to at least 80% in their league games. I wanted to leave but hung in there.

So am I one eyed or stubborn, or is this code actually laughable, I don’t get the attraction, however there must be some truth to my disapproval as union gets very little publicity and their senior competition is basically non-existent. Sorry if I’ve offended some supporters of this code

 

[bob dylan]

Pretty sure I heard Ray Hadley say once he had called over 100 rugby union games and never seen a good one.

 

[globaleagle]

About 10-15 years ago (can't remember) they brought in a rule change which limited the number of penalties that you could attempt to kick a penalty goal for (wow written badly.)

It was an awesome change that promoted running rugby. Points for tries had been increased to 5 points to promote more attack and these 'short arm' penalties added to that. It was good to watch.

But:

Problem: Northern Hemisphere rugby is dull.

The southern hemisphere teams (Aust, NZ, SA, ARG) loved the changes but the Northern Hemisphere didn't...as they like slow sluggish grinding play with the hope of getting a penalty, leading to a kick for a penalty goal.

So when the changes were voted on by the IRB to become permanent, the NTH Hem boards voted against it and so we reverted back to being able to kick for a penalty in all penalties.

The result: Once again boring rugby.

If a game is decided 9 points to 3 and all points are penalty points, a northern hemisphere fan will think this is awesome! Southern H fans will hate it.

Add to that there's about 100 rules in rucks/scrums/mauls which continually change makes it harder to keep track of and each of those 100 infractions leads to the option of kicking a penalty goal.... then you get this boring brand of rugby.

Now, with kickers being able to slot goals from 55+ metres...it's a game of wait to see if the team makes a mistake then kick a penalty goal.

I think at the last world cup they timed games and I believe the average was about 44% of the game actually being 'in play.'

It's boring, rubbish, and as an ex fullback (of limited talent) I hate it.


I used to love watching the tests and knew all the players but ...(and maybe being away from it a bit more in Canada) now I hardly know anyone and I can take it or leave it.

If I was a kiwi, I'd probably still love it as the all blacks are awesome.

tldr: you missed out....go and read it!

 

[mosto]

I played both codes over a number of years. League only until about 20 years old, then both for a few years, then mainly union. When I started union, I was an outside back and hated it. We had a fly half who did nothing but kick. As the weight increased and speed decreased, I moved into the forwards...loved it! Completely different game as a forward.

However, it's not the greatest spectacle to watch at times. I've often said I'd prefer to watch league and play union. Not sure how you timed the 7 minutes 13 seconds of actual play, but in my experience that's incredibly low. Is that the amount of time the ball was actually in play, or the amount of time you thought something was happening, ie just because the ball was stuck in a ruck, maul or scrum doesn't mean nothings happening.

Interestingly enough, I think the best rugby is played a couple of rungs below top level. Test rugby is terribly over refereed, mainly due to northern hemisphere refs and their pedantic interpretations. Super Rugby is a bit more free flowing, however could and should be better. First grade club rugby, I find, is the best too watch as teams seem more willing to throw the ball around and refs more likely to keep the whistle in their pocket, for whatever reason.

At a local, park footy level, I just found the general atmosphere around rugby better. My wife, who was a dyed in the wool league girl when we met, says the same thing. For whatever reason, league seems to attract dickheads and blokes who think they're better players than what they are.

So basically, I prefer league, at the elite level, but certainly enjoy rugby. AFL however, there's one game I just can't get into!

 

[Fluffy]

I played both in the forwards at a low level.

Rugby forwards don't need to be athletes, they need strength and skill and there is a lot that goes on in the scrums, rucks and mauls but the cardio side when continuously running up and back 10 metres so this suited me more.

 

[Shnorky]

I played both codes over a number of years. League only until about 20 years old, then both for a few years, then mainly union. When I started union, I was an outside back and hated it. We had a fly half who did nothing but kick. As the weight increased and speed decreased, I moved into the forwards...loved it! Completely different game as a forward.

However, it's not the greatest spectacle to watch at times. I've often said I'd prefer to watch league and play union. Not sure how you timed the 7 minutes 13 seconds of actual play, but in my experience that's incredibly low. Is that the amount of time the ball was actually in play, or the amount of time you thought something was happening, ie just because the ball was stuck in a ruck, maul or scrum doesn't mean nothings happening.

Interestingly enough, I think the best rugby is played a couple of rungs below top level. Test rugby is terribly over refereed, mainly due to northern hemisphere refs and their pedantic interpretations. Super Rugby is a bit more free flowing, however could and should be better. First grade club rugby, I find, is the best too watch as teams seem more willing to throw the ball around and refs more likely to keep the whistle in their pocket, for whatever reason.

At a local, park footy level, I just found the general atmosphere around rugby better. My wife, who was a dyed in the wool league girl when we met, says the same thing. For whatever reason, league seems to attract dickheads and blokes who think they're better players than what they are.

So basically, I prefer league, at the elite level, but certainly enjoy rugby. AFL however, there's one game I just can't get into!

Thanks for input guys, it was 7 minutes of play from whistle to whistle, scrums were taking up the time and the ref never allowed advantage play, I thought it may have been more fun to go and slam my penis in a car door but I don't think my son would have been happy to hear that

 

[Captain Moondog]

When I started union, I was an outside back and hated it. We had a fly half who did nothing but kick.

Same here. I played union at school, sometimes I felt like a spectator stuck out on the wing. I knew there was a ball out there somewhere but I rarely saw it.

 

[Harvies elbow]

Hi guys, I need some words of advice, as this is a rugby league forum I guess I can openly discuss my disapproval of other codes.

My youngest boy plays both league and union, loves league, tolerates union, but loves the football in his hands. My oldest tried union for one season but hated it. I’ve never watched a proper game of union and never will, however I don’t get the attraction to union. There are 4 teams in his age group at the union club and only 2 in his league, the parents think the union is just terrific, the game they play in heaven so they say.

So I watched his game yesterday as I do and will always support whatever he wants to play, but after watching very little actual football in the 1st half, I thought I’d time the amount of football played in 2nd half. So within a 25 minute half – there was 7 minutes and 13 seconds of football played, that’s 28% of the game is actual football, as opposed to at least 80% in their league games. I wanted to leave but hung in there.

So am I one eyed or stubborn, or is this code actually laughable, I don’t get the attraction, however there must be some truth to my disapproval as union gets very little publicity and their senior competition is basically non-existent. Sorry if I’ve offended some supporters of this code

I can be of absolutely no assistance whatsoever as I wholeheartedly concur.
Don't mind watching a bit of club rugby, it can be a bit ruff n tuff and some good tries but that international rubbish leaves me cold.

 

[wombatgc]

Hi guys, I need some words of advice, as this is a rugby league forum I guess I can openly discuss my disapproval of other codes.

My youngest boy plays both league and union, loves league, tolerates union, but loves the football in his hands. My oldest tried union for one season but hated it. I’ve never watched a proper game of union and never will, however I don’t get the attraction to union. There are 4 teams in his age group at the union club and only 2 in his league, the parents think the union is just terrific, the game they play in heaven so they say.

So I watched his game yesterday as I do and will always support whatever he wants to play, but after watching very little actual football in the 1st half, I thought I’d time the amount of football played in 2nd half. So within a 25 minute half – there was 7 minutes and 13 seconds of football played, that’s 28% of the game is actual football, as opposed to at least 80% in their league games. I wanted to leave but hung in there.

So am I one eyed or stubborn, or is this code actually laughable, I don’t get the attraction, however there must be some truth to my disapproval as union gets very little publicity and their senior competition is basically non-existent. Sorry if I’ve offended some supporters of this code

Funny you bring this up. I was just down in Sydney. My nephew plays for the Hills in rugby. I have tried since he was a toddler to convert him to a Manly supporter (junior memberships for his Birthday, Manly gear.), hoping he would make the switch, but to no avail.
So I agreed to go and watch him last week with my brotherv-in-law. On the way there he stops at a coffee shop. Orders triple shots for both of us, and says you'll need it, it's the only way you'll stay awake watching his game!
And he was right. Stop, start, fumble, penalties galore. The thing is the nephews a big unit ( think Blocker as a kid, but smarter!) and he would kill it in league. I don't get the attraction.
Will agree about the crowd behavior that @mosto mentioned. I coached Junior league for six years, and god their was some feral parents. Then again I'm not sure whether the Union parents were better behaved, or just struggling to stay awake!

 

[mjb136]

Played flanker at high school (union playing school). Loved playing but rule changes have made the game so boring to watch. League is a far better game to watch.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I enjoyed playing union much more than I enjoyed league (neither at anything more than school and suburban level) and I was predominantly a back. But that is going back a few years now. I was playing Union in the amateur era, so it really had that tight knit club and the "in it for the enjoyment of sport" feel. Not sure if that is the case today, but socially Union was miles ahead of the mungos.

The thing I like about Union is that it requires speciality players and body types, not like league where they are all just "athlete" clones virtually. Union is a far more tactical game than league, mostly because of the philosphy that the ball is never "dead" in a tackle. League is more structured than Union and I find that a tad boring I must admit. But having said all that, if you asked me if I wanted to watch the current Wallabies side or Manly in an NRL match, I would take Manly every day of the week. Despite making the last RWC final, Aussie Rugby is in a poor state and it's hard to love at the moment. Until we can win back the Bledisloe Cup the code is going to struggle for support.

 

[The Who]

I played union as a back and enjoyed the space, the depth of the attack and the options for set plays from a scrum win. That was pre-1980s. I played a little league where the tackling was better because the backs were flat-footed.
Today, union is OK to watch at schoolboy and grade level.
When it gets to Super Rugby it starts to get too technical, and at international level it is a defensive kick-fest.
It's a shame that kicking goals has become the scoring weapon of choice at high-level rugby. I wouldn't mind seeing lineouts introduced to league; that would be a hoot!

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Played both at one stage, union was too boring and had far to many rules. When I got back into just playing league I found I was much happier playing, a lot more space and as you mentioned a lot more football actually being played! League is tougher which I love and feels more professional.

 

[Fluffy]

I don't mind women's union. Though I've never played, have often wished I could.

A trip to Thailand could fix that

 

[Woodsie]

@Shnorky went through the same thing with my son a few years back. School played league but all his mates played rugby on the weekend. I adopted the attitude that sport first and foremost should be enjoyed and playing with your mates the most important part, so I suffered the corduroy jackets with patched elbows in silence and was supportive. My son was a handy player and just enjoyed having a go regardless of union or league.

One thing that was an issue though was tackling technique was not high on the agenda of the chadonnay crowd and had to give him training for his league.

What is important to him now is he remembers I never missed a game.

 

[eagle66]

About 12-15 years, I was taken to a Wallabies v Springbock test at Homebush. Only went because it was a Gold Membership ticket. Well, when both coaches come out the next day and say it was the worst game they have ever been a part of, it says a lot. The first half had 40 kicks.

 

[brad]

I played a fair bit of league and had a year in Union and ill tell you what , mum loved it because she did have to wash the Guernsey after a match.

 

[The '47ers]

My simple input is:
Prefer playing Union
Prefer to watch League
ps: I'm fairly soft though I'm told

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

I don't want to get involved in an online political debate (not on this forum, not anywhere), but the distinction, at least in Australia, is class based. Without private schools and a clique of loudmouthed dickheads like Peter Fitzsimons pushing rugby, the sport would no longer exist here. Rugby league is a working class game; union is not.
That aside, by any merits-based analysis, rugby league is just a better game. Better to watch, better to play at pretty much every level. In fact the only way to make rugby union better is to reduce the number of players from 15 to 13, get rid of line-outs and rucks and introduce a play the ball. Which makes it rugby league. Problem solved!

 

[The Who]

I believe there are some aspects of union that league could consider:
1. Short-arm penalties. This is for trivial infringements (as most league penalties are) and doesn't include a kick into touch; just a tap-and-go. League penalties change the outcomes of too many matches.
2. Try adjudication. When the union ref is in doubt he just asks "Try or no try?" He doesn't have to give an opinion at that stage - only if the video ref doesn't have a definitive answer. If a league ref calls for the video it's obvious he is in doubt, so why does he have to make an initial decision?
3. Knock ons. I get frustrated in every RL game whenever a player drops the ball it is invariable called a knock on, when many are knock backs and play on. Union refs are more 'forgiving'.
4. Scrums. Leagues' are a disgrace. Rugby's are a technical borefest. However, a sensible mix of the two should be adopted. Imagine, a league hooker who actually does something resembling the name of his position?
5. Line outs. These to me are a great sight and one of the more interesting aspects of union. Why not league? I'd love to see Kapow lifting Penny into the stratasphere to catch a throw from Api!