more COVID discussion

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I'm probably crazy for sticking my head up and I'll start by saying that I am fully vaccinated as are all the members of my family. We all wear masks where required and scan in and display our passports as required. I'm no one's idea of a rebel

BUT

Haven't we got this arse around. Posters on here (and governments) seem to be concerned that they will contract Covid from unvaccinated people but think they're safe around vaccinated people.

Publicly available scientific evidence suggests that vaccination reduces the adverse health impacts of Covid on the vaccinated person but does little to stop that person getting infected or carrying the disease. The only thing that stops you from contracting and carrying Covid is to contract the disease and then recover. A very extensive study in Israel determined that people who recover are 16 times more resistant to Covid than the vaccinated. If you're at the football standing next to a vaccinated person on one side and an unvaccinated person on the other they are both as likely to be carrying the disease. The unvaccinated person is more likely to get sick from it though.
Absolutely correct. It's all about lowering the spike once Delta takes hold. Every single person will eventually get this disease. It may take months or years but you will get it. How sick you get depends on you. If you think Delta variant is bad just wait for the Kylie variant. You should be so lucky.
 
Anyhow I am more concerned about our health system,I have a friend who is a paramedic and she and her colleagues are at the breaking point when it comes to stress at the moment and that is before opening up.
A neighbour who is a nurse at RPA has been in quarantine 3 times due to be being a close contact at the hospital. Her and her family have done 3 lots of 2 week home isolations over this year. They have almost gone crazy. Many health staff are in the same boat and hospitals are short of staff because of the number who are in isolation.
 
Unfortunately the reason viruses survive is mutation,we are already seeing people contracting and having issues at a younger age than first thought.
My wife and I are both double vaccinated and at the 6 month interval will get the booster shot.
I am worried for people who have medical issues that will be at higher risk,I believe the mortality rate for influenza is about 0.1%(I may have misheard).
Anyhow I am more concerned about our health system,I have a friend who is a paramedic and she and her colleagues are at the breaking point when it comes to stress at the moment and that is before opening up.
I have many work colleagues who are vocal anti-vaxers and the best line I have for them is that they can choose to not be vaccinated,but if they or their immediate family contract covid and need emergency help then they can just sit at home and ride it out.If they live so be it,if they die so be it,they have made their choice.....
Influenza is normally put at about 0.3% but the experience of last year suggests we don't give it enough credit. According to ABS date around 800 people died of the flue in 2019 but in 2020 we cancelled the flu season by locking down the nursing homes, wearing masks, washing our hands regularly etc and the result was 28 thousand fewer deaths and 17 thousand fewer deaths from respiratory conditions.
 
Do you mean bauxite rather than metallurgic coal? Or steel rather than aluminium?
Aluminium. A lot of Chinese power plants are geared up to burn Australian coal and they can't use Chinese domestic coal. Hence the rolling blackouts in China and reduced Aluminium production. Hence the Chinese government plans to build new coal powered stations and demands for increased domestic coal production. China produces about 58% of the world's aluminium. Xi Jinping is under pressure from other senior members of the CCP which may be why he's unwilling to leave the country at the moment. The power shortages are unlikely to be helping his hold on power. This may be one reason why Xi has been rattling sabres toward Taiwan and America recently. We may survive Covid but perish in the resultant world war. I find that scenario very unlikely. We're better off than 20 million people in Africa facing starvation because they can't get insecticides as a result of the restrictions we've put in place to save ourselves from Covid.
 
One of the strange things (and perhaps it’s an ongoing part of the ‘dumbing down’ of the populace) about all this is that we all live in a world where smallpox was eradicated years ago (albeit the odd potential outbreak) and polio is almost gone. Imagine if social media had existed from the late 1950s onwards when the work of Salk and Sabin started the process of eradicating polio? The 1960s equivalents of Winterstein’s wife or wannabe Trumpians like Craig Kelly, or Christensen of the Philippines, would be out there spruiking their noxious disinformation - instead of having an audience little bigger than that at the nightly dining table.

Meanwhile these same fools will presumably accept the need to have a driver’s/motorcycle licence and your vehicle must be registered and insured; that they have to stop at a red light; or that they have to vote; that their children must attend school; that they should not litter streets and public places; that they should not defecate or urinate in public. I could go on.
Lets hope these dropkicks don't start trying this stuff on:


Only in the USA hopefully.
 
A neighbour who is a nurse at RPA has been in quarantine 3 times due to be being a close contact at the hospital. Her and her family have done 3 lots of 2 week home isolations over this year. They have almost gone crazy. Many health staff are in the same boat and hospitals are short of staff because of the number who are in isolation.
Yeah,many moons ago I contemplated being a paramedic as a career choice,right now I don't know if I could do it without losing it or losing my **** at some of the public....
 
I don’t believe pneumonia is contagious, unlike C19
It can be a bacterial infection in the lungs,it can be contagious,the nurses and doctors wear full PPE every time visiting the room of a pneumonia patient so as to not pass it on,particularly so in paediatric wards.....
 
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Influenza is normally put at about 0.3% but the experience of last year suggests we don't give it enough credit. According to ABS date around 800 people died of the flue in 2019 but in 2020 we cancelled the flu season by locking down the nursing homes, wearing masks, washing our hands regularly etc and the result was 28 thousand fewer deaths and 17 thousand fewer deaths from respiratory conditions.
So it would be logical to assume that the covid deaths might be under represented too?
Is every death tested for covid in the person who has deceased?(to see if it has contributed in some way or as an underlying factor)
 
Aluminium. A lot of Chinese power plants are geared up to burn Australian coal and they can't use Chinese domestic coal. Hence the rolling blackouts in China and reduced Aluminium production. Hence the Chinese government plans to build new coal powered stations and demands for increased domestic coal production. China produces about 58% of the world's aluminium. Xi Jinping is under pressure from other senior members of the CCP which may be why he's unwilling to leave the country at the moment. The power shortages are unlikely to be helping his hold on power. This may be one reason why Xi has been rattling sabres toward Taiwan and America recently. We may survive Covid but perish in the resultant world war. I find that scenario very unlikely. We're better off than 20 million people in Africa facing starvation because they can't get insecticides as a result of the restrictions we've put in place to save ourselves from Covid.
I thought there was a lot of noise recently about China using less coal and steel to reduce their emissions to be more compliant?Maybe it is a smokescreen for the real reason why they want to import less steel and therefore coal.....
 
So it would be logical to assume that the covid deaths might be under represented too?
Is every death tested for covid in the person who has deceased?(to see if it has contributed in some way or as an underlying factor)
No, Covid deaths appear to be well documented. If you listen to the case details given in the daily briefings a number of people have been found to be Covid positive after dying of other causes. They still get counted as Covid deaths. The government has gone over to referring to "deaths with Covid". Early on a number of people contracted Covid while in palliative care wards. They were still counted as Covid deaths. I think we can safely assume that Covid deaths aren't undercounted.
 
No, Covid deaths appear to be well documented. If you listen to the case details given in the daily briefings a number of people have been found to be Covid positive after dying of other causes. They still get counted as Covid deaths. The government has gone over to referring to "deaths with Covid". Early on a number of people contracted Covid while in palliative care wards. They were still counted as Covid deaths. I think we can safely assume that Covid deaths aren't undercounted.
I believe that recent studies show that many Central/Southern American and middle eastern/balkan states have been exposed as reporting 2-3 times less the number of deaths and Russia at 4 times.
Can you be sure that all countries(African nations as an example) have accurate reporting figures?
Going off US/European/Pacific figures might be misleading....
 
At the end of the day it is his choice. However, he has to accept that due to his choice there are consequences. One of which is him potentially putting the club in breach of public health orders. Not sure if this could then lead to a work cover investigation if they were to breach it, as the footy field is a work site as they are professionals.
Therefore he may only be eligible for play 40-50% of games. He has to accept that by his choice his value has dropped that much and accept a reduced wage, he can't expect to keep his job at current conditions when by his choice he himself has changed the working conditions.

Also, studies show that vaccinations do reduce transmission by half as well as reduce the time they are infectious. I'm sure arguments around a safe workplace could be made.

But again at the end of the day it is their choice. They just have to remember it is other peoples choice if they want to associate with em. Can't cry foul about the choices of others and be a hypocrite after exercising your own choice
 
And then there’s stuff like this, you would hope the authorities can track down every one he issued and have the all cancelled.


A doctor from the NSW Central Coast who allegedly issued hundreds of exemptions from COVID-19 vaccinations has been suspended by the Medical Council of NSW.

A spokesperson for the Medical Council confirmed it had suspended the medical registration of Lake Macquarie practitioner Anthony John Evans on October 28.

“The decision took effect immediately. The council has taken this regulatory action in order to protect the health and safety of the public and to maintain confidence in the medical profession.

The council has written to the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency, which has recorded the suspension on the online public register of practitioners,” the spokesperson said.

Dr Evans was interviewed by police earlier this month, and was referred to the state’s Health Care Complaints Commission, after telling police he had issued 400 vaccine exemptions, with another 300 to be written.

When the Herald attempted to contact Dr Evans, a voicemail recording said exemptions were no longer being issued.

“We are no longer answering the phone as we are recovering from the ordeal of the last month,” the voice message, in a woman’s voice, said.

“If you are calling about an exemption from vaccines, we are no longer able to provide these.”

The 84 year-old recently came back to the workforce and was registered as part of the “temporary pandemic response sub-register”, which fast-tracked the return of experienced health practitioners to provide a surge capacity.

Dr Evans’ alleged exemptions first came to light on 2GB radio earlier in the month, after locals called in to the station saying some at Kempsey Adventist School were advocating for people not to get vaccinated.

They said a sheet of paper was sent out to the school community with details about Dr Evans to issue exemptions.

The school was forced to shut between October 20 and 27 after a number of people in the community tested positive for COVID-19.

The school has been contacted for comment. It previously told 2GB it supported vaccinations.

“The council will also be referring the practitioner to the NSW Health Care Complaints Commission for investigation as is required by law. The council cannot release any further details about this decision, including the reasons or any details about the complaints that have prompted this regulatory action,” the council said.
 
And then there’s stuff like this, you would hope the authorities can track down every one he issued and have the all cancelled.


A doctor from the NSW Central Coast who allegedly issued hundreds of exemptions from COVID-19 vaccinations has been suspended by the Medical Council of NSW.

A spokesperson for the Medical Council confirmed it had suspended the medical registration of Lake Macquarie practitioner Anthony John Evans on October 28.

“The decision took effect immediately. The council has taken this regulatory action in order to protect the health and safety of the public and to maintain confidence in the medical profession.

The council has written to the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency, which has recorded the suspension on the online public register of practitioners,” the spokesperson said.

Dr Evans was interviewed by police earlier this month, and was referred to the state’s Health Care Complaints Commission, after telling police he had issued 400 vaccine exemptions, with another 300 to be written.

When the Herald attempted to contact Dr Evans, a voicemail recording said exemptions were no longer being issued.

“We are no longer answering the phone as we are recovering from the ordeal of the last month,” the voice message, in a woman’s voice, said.

“If you are calling about an exemption from vaccines, we are no longer able to provide these.”

The 84 year-old recently came back to the workforce and was registered as part of the “temporary pandemic response sub-register”, which fast-tracked the return of experienced health practitioners to provide a surge capacity.

Dr Evans’ alleged exemptions first came to light on 2GB radio earlier in the month, after locals called in to the station saying some at Kempsey Adventist School were advocating for people not to get vaccinated.

They said a sheet of paper was sent out to the school community with details about Dr Evans to issue exemptions.

The school was forced to shut between October 20 and 27 after a number of people in the community tested positive for COVID-19.

The school has been contacted for comment. It previously told 2GB it supported vaccinations.

“The council will also be referring the practitioner to the NSW Health Care Complaints Commission for investigation as is required by law. The council cannot release any further details about this decision, including the reasons or any details about the complaints that have prompted this regulatory action,” the council said.
We have one up here , a Chinese lady who claimed to be a Dr and was selling exemptions for $160!!

Apparently she did several thousand.

Not bad money hey !!!
 
So it would be logical to assume that the covid deaths might be under represented too?
Is every death tested for covid in the person who has deceased?(to see if it has contributed in some way or as an underlying factor)
Anyone who dies with covid, or after having covid in the last 30 days is attributed as a covid death. That is a fact, and easy to check if a person is interested in doing so. It's why so many deaths are reported as - "five people have died with covid overnight." As opposed to - "five people have died from covid." You will hear it tomorrow if you want to listen.

I'm not a covid denier or an anti vax merchant. I've had my first shot and it will either work or it won't. But that doesn't mean I'm swallowing the narrative being pushed hook, line and sinker. There should always be room for discussion, irrespective of whether the subject invokes strong emotional responses.

I hope your son is doing well.
 
I believe that recent studies show that many Central/Southern American and middle eastern/balkan states have been exposed as reporting 2-3 times less the number of deaths and Russia at 4 times.
Can you be sure that all countries(African nations as an example) have accurate reporting figures?
Going off US/European/Pacific figures might be misleading....
I don't have that data but I've seen a few similar news reports. I'm suspicious of all claims that come out of those areas. Veracity always seems to take a back seat to politics and propaganda. I can only work on data from Australia and to a lesser degree America, England and Western Europe.

Some of the info even from those generally reliable areas can be confusing. The Americans - for example - claim they had 2.85 million deaths in 2019 and 3 million in 2020. There are 330 million people in America and the average life expectancy is 79 years. A couple of minutes with a pad and pencil suggests there should be over 4 million deaths each year. Did we see an actual increase in 2020 or just better data collection. In saying that though, I don't doubt for a minute that Covid killed a lot of people in America. Many US States were very slow to lock down the nursing homes and take steps to protect vulnerable people.


I believe that recent studies show that many Central/Southern American and middle eastern/balkan states have been exposed as reporting 2-3 times less the number of deaths and Russia at 4 times.
Can you be sure that all countries(African nations as an example) have accurate reporting figures?
Going off US/European/Pacific figures might be misleading....
 
What I can't understand is why a vaccinated person gives a hoot about someone who is unvaccinated. If the efficacy of the vaccine doesn't protect a person from catching Covid - then wtf are we all getting jabbed for?

The chicken Pox vaccine works, as does the Polio vaccine and the Measles vaccine. They work really well. I think I'm gonna need a couple of glasses of Clayton's to prepare me for my second shot. The vaccine you have when you're not having a vaccine.

Much like the flu vaccine isn't a rock solid guarantee you won't catch the flu, so is the Covid vaccine. Both will just reduce the severity of the symptoms which is especially crucial in the case of Covid.

And even though I probably won't end up hospitalised if I happen to get it, I'd rather not get it at all. Statistically, an unvaccinated person is far more likely to spread it so I would rather the double vax rate was 100%. Even though I know it won't happen.
 
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