Number 9 - when will they learn.

[susan]

Last night playing a team decimated in the forwards who then lost their best forward in the first minute.
I’m not a stats man but into the second half Dross commented we had not had a single run from Croker or his understudy( or DCE for that matter). Not a single run !

I cannot remember a run out of dummy half or even any engagement with the defence over 80 minutes other than Sips try( which should have maybe given them a hint lol)

5 years without a hooker who attracts defenders or who has any real guile and it doesn’t even seem like they think it’s an issue. It’s so obvious yet …,

This is a team with a plenty of talent that needs a very good 9, elite left side edge and quality prop yet in the last three years other than rumours of Flegler and a Hail Mary for Creightin ,which was dismissed out of hand , there seems little recognition of the problem.
Surely we can’t go into next season with these same forwards yet it seems almost a certainty we will.
2027 will be a nightmare chasing gun forwards with the Bears on the prowl.

 

[JakeyB789]

Croker 2 runs for 8 metres, Simpkin zero runs in his 34 minute stint. Insanely low numbers considering we were actually winning the forward battle for once against a team that already had no middles, and then lost Frizell after 5 minutes.

No surprise with Croker but I've had high hopes for Simpkin and if that's what he's going to dish up, when his role was literally to come off the bench and provide spark then that is not going to cut it. The problem is last night showed we need to carry a back on the bench but then it's hard to play a second hooker too. Jazz can fill in there but we are a way better team with him at lock. God we are such an unbalanced team.

 

[CRPSI eagle]

Croker 2 runs for 8 metres, Simpkin zero runs in his 34 minute stint. Insanely low numbers considering we were actually winning the forward battle for once against a team that already had no middles, and then lost Frizell after 5 minutes.

No surprise with Croker but I've had high hopes for Simpkin and if that's what he's going to dish up, when his role was literally to come off the bench and provide spark then that is not going to cut it. The problem is last night showed we need to carry a back on the bench but then it's hard to play a second hooker too. Jazz can fill in there but we are a way better team with him at lock. God we are such an unbalanced team.

Simpkin did not look happy on sideline warming up for so long.

 

[Frogz]

Why do we always need another hooker on the bench??? Can't they play 80 minutes, like others do?

 

[Ohgeez]

Why do we always need another hooker on the bench??? Can't they play 80 minutes, like others do?

If we have 1 hooker there is always Jazz that can fill in for 10-15 minutes a game if needed as well

 

[Brookie1973]

Why do we always need another hooker on the bench??? Can't they play 80 minutes, like others do?

Ask SuperCoach

 

[JBW]

But running from dummy half would have ruined the second half game plan of taking one off the ruck for 6 tackles straight...

 

[Rackets]

Time to make a play for Liddle. He's the perfect 9 to get our attack humming like it should. Seibold keeps talking about our "weapons" but can't get any spark out of dummy half.

 

[1967 eagle croc]

Why do we always need another hooker on the bench??? Can't they play 80 minutes, like others do?

even our two useless hookers don't make one reasonable hooker. why cant we use some of the reggies in our forward pack gotta be better than the bludgers we have now.

 

[andyeagle]

Remember the club did target Bateman (not that he's anything to get excited about unless it's 2019), so I assume they can see there is a weakness / hole in the squad. Maybe they were hoping for more from Chee Kam, or that Asatasi James might finally step up. Duck and Burbo are great depth players. Hopefully we can strengthen up in this area for 2026

 

[wombatgc]

In contrast I thought once Newcastle replaced the poodle with Brailey, he came into the game with a lot of energy, bringing blokes onto the ball, building momentum. So if he’s off to the Raiders next year they’ve got Starling, Brailey, and in my humble opinion, a star in the making with Owen Pattie.
Maybe Fogarty can get in the ear of the young bloke and get him to Brookvale?
(I don’t even look at their contract terms anymore . A pointless exercise these days).

 

[Stewbojevic]

In contrast I thought once Newcastle replaced the poodle with Brailey, he came into the game with a lot of energy, bringing blokes onto the ball, building momentum. So if he’s off to the Raiders next year they’ve got Starling, Brailey, and in my humble opinion, a star in the making with Owen Pattie.
Maybe Fogarty can get in the ear of the young bloke and get him to Brookvale?
(I don’t even look at their contract terms anymore . A pointless exercise these days).

The Raiders signing Brailey and then re-signing Starling makes no sense with Pattie also there. Something has to give.

We were rumoured to be in the market for Starling so I don’t think they are oblivious to the issue

 

[bob dylan]

Croker 2 runs for 8 metres, Simpkin zero runs in his 34 minute stint. Insanely low numbers considering we were actually winning the forward battle for once against a team that already had no middles, and then lost Frizell after 5 minutes.

No surprise with Croker but I've had high hopes for Simpkin and if that's what he's going to dish up, when his role was literally to come off the bench and provide spark then that is not going to cut it. The problem is last night showed we need to carry a back on the bench but then it's hard to play a second hooker too. Jazz can fill in there but we are a way better team with him at lock. God we are such an unbalanced team.

I suggest it's being coached not left to the player's discretion.

 

[manly al]

Interesting balance trying to get the best outcomes with the current 9 options .
Froggy [ starting ] and Simpkin complementing after that, may offer the most value .
Jazz can certainly manage a worthwhile role there as well but given the also open question who can offer the most helpful input at 13 , Jazz looks like the best option starting there in the present circumstances
Jake starting as a prop then the logical consideration but then for the initial impact factor , and with T K O , a fit Alioia , Bully and then eventually Paseka naturally in the mix there .
Also quite logical expectation however that Jake should have at least ,say a 60 min presence for a normal game playing stint in the pack somewhere .
Club could just be waiting for that younger brigade of 9 's in the lower grades to soon make their mark and Gordy just out of the picture as things have evolved in recent times .

 

[BOZO]

Croker 2 runs for 8 metres, Simpkin zero runs in his 34 minute stint.

Our make shift hooker the Frog clearly did not turn into a prince of Hookers
Simpkin was the burgain buy that was released from the rebuilding Tigers that had better options

We need to find better options
But as the heading of this thread says
WHEN WILL THEY EVER LEARN
And so @JakeyB789 my feathered friend
Its time for another song .
Maybe the Great Singing Sensation @maxta can lead us ....
Where have all the Great Manly Hookers gone
Long time passing
Where have all the Great Manly Hookers gone
Long time ago
Where have all the Great Manly Hookers gone
Other clubs have picked them every one
When will they ever learn
When will they ever learn

 

[Cliffy's Jockstrap]

I suggest it's being coached not left to the player's discretion.

Exactly: that is the answer. Our preferred pattern of play features a reliance on our halves for generating attack, with Turbo when fit a point of difference as he charges into the backline attracting defenders. Our 9s are coached to distribute ball for hit ups or toward the halves.

Maybe it's an inaccurate feeling but the feeling I have is that Manly does not adjust well to changes in circumstance on the field, we don't seem to have a baseline of simple reasonably effective play that we can fall back upon if circumstances have changed against us. And so we tend to look panicked and confused when that happens.

It might follow that we are over-coached to our patterns and we need to introduce things that are a bit more ad hoc. I was delighted to see that Taukieaho (apologies if spelt wrong I haven't time to check it) and Tevaga brought offloads with them, for just that reason.

 

[Phobia]

Time to make a play for Liddle. He's the perfect 9 to get our attack humming like it should. Seibold keeps talking about our "weapons" but can't get any spark out of dummy half.

I've preached this before, I'm pretty sure he's off contract right now, and we we had red hot cracks at both Starling and Brailey. Liddle would cost similar, so we have the cash for it, and likely the desire.

In terms of hooker roster spots, GCKT is off-contract and unlikely to be re-signed, Muagututia moves into the Top 30 on a minimum wage, probably replacing his spot, while Simpkin is on 250k next year iirc, with Croker on probably ~300k. Liddle could be a very good long term option, particularly beyond 2026, which is the final year of both Simpkin's and Croker's contracts.

It's very clear that the club wants to move on from Croker, but can't find a better option. I am still of the opinion that Croker offers a lot more than Simpkin. Even has more try assists! (1 more...)