Passion for the club

Really? You don't think the Toovey years were a success?? How so? He got us to the 2013 grandfinal, and had it not been for those Rorters and that bastard referee we would have won our 9th premiership. Toovey had us playing finals football for each year that he was the coach except for the last year where we finished one spot outside the top 8 and then he got sacked. And despite Penn's claims that "it's a results-based business" we all know the real reason Toovey was sacked was because he was closer aligned with Max Delmege than with Penn. Because had it really been about results we never would have employed Barrett, and neither would we have persisted with Barrett for as long as we did.
They were highly successful, compared to what we've had recently.
Tooves was probably unlucky with the timing of becoming head coach at Manly. I spoke to him before the 2012 season and he confirmed what was fairly widely known, there was no room in the cap for the next few years. Still, with the players we had at that time his tenure certainly wasn't an over-achievement. His sacking was political (and the manner of it was disrespectful) but it wasn't solely political, I think the senior players were hoping for a bit more.
 
Last weekend I watched Ricky Stuart almost in tears on the sidelines watching Papalii do his stuff at the end, and then how highly he spoke of him in the press conference. At first I thought it was cringe worthy how he was on the sideline, but on reflection, the passion he has for the Raiders shines through immensely, and it seems to be rubbing through onto the squad as a whole, and you even have guys who he has had issues with on board and pulling in one direction.

Now to move this around to where I relate it to Manly. Our last golden era, Des and Toovey on the coaching staff were Manly through and through, if anything happened to the players, Des is first one there in their corner and publicly batting for them in the media. Max Delmege, couldn’t question one bit his love for the club. All players had complete buy in and loved Des and the entire club pulled in one direction.

There has always been a theory about Manly only having success with Manly people, and I have never brought into it, I’ve always thought it should be the best person for the job regardless.

For me I think my viewpoint on this has completely changed. Not every coach needs to be carrying on like Ricky Stuart on the sideline, but I look at Seibold, and could I ever see him having that type of emotion and passion in him if Jake had an afternoon like that ? No I can’t. I don’t see anything in him that gives the squad anything to buy into whole heartedly, that isn’t saying he is a bad bloke, he just doesn’t seem to inspire, and none of the assistants have it in them either. The current owners, they tip money into the joint, but is there ever anything more coming from them that suggests the club is anything more than the plaything to them ? They certainly haven’t been shy of knifing club legends in the back

We look at the DCE saga, and we will never know the reasons why, but we have the guy at our club in Josh Papaliis shoes, and he can’t wait to get out of the joint, why ? I’m not marking him innocent in eroding of Manly culture either, but why does he so desperately want out of a joint he can hold all the records at ?

I’m sure people can point at Des in 2011 as part of starting this downward spiral as well, and it may be a fair point, but what pushed him in that direction ? That’s another question with many answers that we will probably never know which one is correct

So to round this off, how do we get back to installing the Manly DNA back into the joint ? Personally I have absolutely no idea lol. Penn is a known quantity so we know what we get there. Mestrov doesn’t inspire me at all, listening to him on the podcasts with James Graham last year, he was more about pulling the likes of Penrith down a level, rather than striving to push Manly up to that level. Coaching wise, Seibold isn’t it for me, but who is out there that has that Manly passion to inspire the players ? I don’t see any obvious option immediately, in the future Jake may be a great option to have coming through the coaching ranks

When I look at all the above, the current way we are playing, what we have in terms of promising players coming through, especially in the forwards, things are looking decidedly bleak. The Warriors recruitment and retention boss was on the radio here a couple of weeks back publicly laying out their plan for the next 5 years and where they are looking to go as a club, and it was a great listen. I wish I had something like that from us that we could actually hold onto with some hope

Going back to the topic title, passion for the club, mine has declined rapidly in recent times. The result good or bad doesn’t have the same emotion in it anymore, Can anybody lift me back up ?
Jake T for coach.. give him a few years and he will lead us to glory.

He's all Manly, he's an elite player who has been coaches by elite coaches ( bar Barrett of course )
But throughout his rep days he been coached by some of the best.

He needs a few years coaching, he's got a footy brain, players love and respect him and if your looking for passion and a Manly man...

Then Jake could be it.. one for the future i guess..
 
Correct, but over those 12 years, how many times have you looked at a Raiders squad and thought “these guys should be up there challenging”, most years I look at them and think bottom 4, and most years have punched above their weight. It’s a squad that’s always been bereft of genuine game breaking superstars and hard to recruit too
The Raiders are not a poor club. An excerpt from this article lists the club's asset value at over $140 million, including $52 million in cash. Now this may not directly translate to third-party deals for incoming players, but it isn't as if they are a basket case that no player would or should go near.

As noted earlier, it is within a coach's remit to build a squad with the type of players they want. And most coaches do not get 10+ years and multiple complete squad iterations to do this. The Raiders only have infrequent finals appearances and no premierships to show for it.

Guess where I’m looking at them as an example is that you can see some passion for the place on the sidelines, you can see a clear recruitment and retention strategy (England has served them well, and they’ve gone out and signed a bunch of talented youngsters) and you can see that all meshing together into a positive future. Easy to just cherry pick the top sides but you can see the clear direction Bulldogs and Warriors are heading in as well, again the fans have something to look at and be excited over

What do we have ? A couple of young halves we hope will come good, and hopes that saving money on a few old people might land us a good signing.

Raiders fans are excited because they are looking good this year after years of mediocrity. But as with 2016 and 2019, they could just as likely follow it up with more indifferent years and it will be time for another rebuild.

As for us. Our coach and CEO inherited a squad that missed the finals more often than not in the previous 8 years. That squad had multiple players in key positions on large, long-term deals that were signed before they arrived. With respect, at least 2 of those players are either frequently injured or not what this squad needs to win a premiership, in my opinion. We have done pretty well to retain a lot of good players, but we really don't have a lot of salary cap flexibility to sign players in areas we really need (i.e., forwards) until those deals expire, starting next year.
 
They also made it to the 2019 GrandFinal against the Rorters where they were dudded by that infamous 6-again call.

They were a bit unlucky in one moment of that match. But instead of rebounding for another crack at premiership, they followed up that season with ladder positions of 5th, 10th, 8th, 8th and 9th.

How would Des have been remembered if he only ever coached Manly to the 2007 Grand Final? Not outstandingly I would suggest.
 
This is Sticky's 11th season in charge, and during that time they have earned the nickname "The Faiders" .... also the 23rd season since he last won the premiership ... please.

I think the Canberra fans appear a lot more forgiving and patient than Manly fans ... we start sack the coach threads after 1 year ... and that's when we're in 6th place on the ladder. ...
Lets give Seibold a 10 year contract.
 
Last weekend I watched Ricky Stuart almost in tears on the sidelines watching Papalii do his stuff at the end, and then how highly he spoke of him in the press conference. At first I thought it was cringe worthy how he was on the sideline, but on reflection, the passion he has for the Raiders shines through immensely, and it seems to be rubbing through onto the squad as a whole, and you even have guys who he has had issues with on board and pulling in one direction.

Now to move this around to where I relate it to Manly. Our last golden era, Des and Toovey on the coaching staff were Manly through and through, if anything happened to the players, Des is first one there in their corner and publicly batting for them in the media. Max Delmege, couldn’t question one bit his love for the club. All players had complete buy in and loved Des and the entire club pulled in one direction.

There has always been a theory about Manly only having success with Manly people, and I have never brought into it, I’ve always thought it should be the best person for the job regardless.

For me I think my viewpoint on this has completely changed. Not every coach needs to be carrying on like Ricky Stuart on the sideline, but I look at Seibold, and could I ever see him having that type of emotion and passion in him if Jake had an afternoon like that ? No I can’t. I don’t see anything in him that gives the squad anything to buy into whole heartedly, that isn’t saying he is a bad bloke, he just doesn’t seem to inspire, and none of the assistants have it in them either. The current owners, they tip money into the joint, but is there ever anything more coming from them that suggests the club is anything more than the plaything to them ? They certainly haven’t been shy of knifing club legends in the back

We look at the DCE saga, and we will never know the reasons why, but we have the guy at our club in Josh Papaliis shoes, and he can’t wait to get out of the joint, why ? I’m not marking him innocent in eroding of Manly culture either, but why does he so desperately want out of a joint he can hold all the records at ?

I’m sure people can point at Des in 2011 as part of starting this downward spiral as well, and it may be a fair point, but what pushed him in that direction ? That’s another question with many answers that we will probably never know which one is correct

So to round this off, how do we get back to installing the Manly DNA back into the joint ? Personally I have absolutely no idea lol. Penn is a known quantity so we know what we get there. Mestrov doesn’t inspire me at all, listening to him on the podcasts with James Graham last year, he was more about pulling the likes of Penrith down a level, rather than striving to push Manly up to that level. Coaching wise, Seibold isn’t it for me, but who is out there that has that Manly passion to inspire the players ? I don’t see any obvious option immediately, in the future Jake may be a great option to have coming through the coaching ranks

When I look at all the above, the current way we are playing, what we have in terms of promising players coming through, especially in the forwards, things are looking decidedly bleak. The Warriors recruitment and retention boss was on the radio here a couple of weeks back publicly laying out their plan for the next 5 years and where they are looking to go as a club, and it was a great listen. I wish I had something like that from us that we could actually hold onto with some hope

Going back to the topic title, passion for the club, mine has declined rapidly in recent times. The result good or bad doesn’t have the same emotion in it anymore, Can anybody lift me back up ?
Nailed it @Kiwi Eagle
I'll answer your question about Des in 2011 he was lowballed and disrespected by management including the chairman Scott Penn. he got the ****s and greenturd was there waiting with the poker machine money from bulldogs leagues to pay him.
Toovey did a great job holding it together and we should have won the comp in 2013 (**** you shayne Hayne).
Then as the great generation started to move on toovey wasn't allowed the luxury the rebuild. Apparently according to Penn it's a results driven business. Funny that Barrett and now Siebold get that luxury.

I'll be honest I love was Ricky is doing at Canberra and am bloody jealous.

Seibold says all the right things but isn't getting the results. There's heaps of coaches out there. Brad Arthur with strong manly assistants would be great. Chad Randall is getting massive raps for being the defensive coach at the dogs and ballin is getting big raps in qld. Arthur knows the club and was there with 2013. **** I'd even give toovey another go with strong assistants. But one thing is for sure we have to stop being the home for Issac Moses washed up has beens and never was'. This mail that Josh garlic sauce is going to be medically retired and looking to be placed by Fetcher Baker and or Corey Jensen. Pleeease give me a break.
 
Jake T for coach.. give him a few years and he will lead us to glory.

He's all Manly, he's an elite player who has been coaches by elite coaches ( bar Barrett of course )
But throughout his rep days he been coached by some of the best.

He needs a few years coaching, he's got a footy brain, players love and respect him and if your looking for passion and a Manly man...

Then Jake could be it.. one for the future i guess..
Tom would be better than Jake. Jake's big, beautiful heart would lead to the worst Pick n Stick in the history of the NRL.
 
Captain coaches!!!
The game hasnt had one of those since...the 70s i think

Why not 2

Come on Mestrov sign the boys up.. captain and Vice captain coaches!!..Tom won't play that often so "it I'll be right".. 😂🤣
 
I think the clubs who are succeeding now are doing so because they've stayed true to a plan they implemented.

Ciraldo's start at the dogs was pretty ordinary, so was Fitzgibbon's at the sharks, but both clubs stood strong & now we see the Bulldogs as a contender for the premiership this year & the Sharks are a respected opponent (although their season this year has been a bit up & down).

I don't know what it's like behind closed doors at Manly, but on here, as soon as we have a loss early in the season, calls for the coach's head start up.

Someone else mentioned that we essentially lost a generation of potential "Manly DNA" coaches with the bad blood between the club & our golden era team (Lyon, Matai, Watmough, the Stewarts etc) with really only Watmough & Brett Stewart having come back to the club in coaching roles. I don't know exactly what went down between those players & the club, but the fact that Lyon & Matai have never been involved with the club since suggests there was a lot of bad blood there.

We need a rebuild but we also need patience to let it grow - this need for instant results is what kills clubs, forever chasing that quick fix to keep everyone happy.

Maybe Mestrov is the start of this rebuild - he's certainly achieved more than about 8 other blokes before him (& has outlasted all of them too) & maybe, just maybe, this is the end of an era that we now have a great opportunity to rebuild & flourish from, with DCE going & the re-signing of Turbo & Jurbo on smaller contracts.
Really solid post – couldn’t agree more with the point about patience and sticking to a plan. The Dogs and Sharks are perfect examples. Ciraldo and Fitz didn’t exactly set the world on fire straight away, but their clubs backed them in and are now reaping the rewards. Too often, fans (and sometimes boards) hit the panic button at the first sign of trouble.

At Manly, it does feel like we’re stuck in this loop of short-term thinking. One bad loss and it’s "sack the coach" time. But look at how long the Roosters stuck with Robbo even through flat patches, or how Penrith built their system from the ground up – it takes years, not weeks.

As for the disconnect with the golden era boys – yeah, that’s been a real missed opportunity. The fact that Lyon, Matai, Gifty etc. have never really come back into the fold says a lot. Whatever went down clearly burned some bridges. It’s a shame, because that sort of club DNA matters – look at what blokes like Price and Hornby are doing at the Dragons now, or how the Storm always seem to keep their old boys around.

Gentles and Seibold do have a track record… just depends which part you’re looking at. If it's the Broncos COVID era, maybe not so much. But hey, maybe they’ve learned from the chaos.And side note – good to see Choc back in the system. Bit funny though: this time last year he was running to the papers about the club selling off the juniors, now he’s coaching Flegg? Either someone’s thrown him a hospital pass, or they’ve set him up to fail. And let’s not forget, Gentles and other first grade staff were at Parra during Choc’s time there too – so I can’t imagine he’s thrilled bending the knee
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Members online

Latest posts

2025 Ladder

Team P W D L PD Pts
1 Bulldogs 12 10 0 2 92 24
2 Raiders 14 11 0 3 96 22
3 Warriors 13 10 0 3 35 22
4 Storm 12 8 0 4 171 20
5 Sharks 13 7 0 6 14 16
6 Cowboys 12 5 1 6 -52 15
7 Dolphins 13 6 0 7 92 14
8 Broncos 13 6 0 7 44 14
9 Sea Eagles 13 6 0 7 42 14
10 Roosters 12 5 0 7 -22 14
11 Dragons 12 5 0 7 -47 14
12 Rabbitohs 13 6 0 7 -82 14
13 Panthers 13 5 1 7 -9 13
14 Tigers 13 5 0 8 -62 12
15 Knights 13 5 0 8 -65 12
16 Eels 13 4 0 9 -105 10
17 Titans 12 3 0 9 -142 10
Back
Top Bottom