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Scorpio

Armchair Expert
Yes but ... how many of the wins has he had a decisive part in ?....... with a more creative dummy half could we have won more ?.... and with a lesser defender we may have lost more ....
A hooker usually distributes the ball 4-5 times a set and makes 30-40 tackles per match, so it depends how you define 'playing a decisive part'... How many wins did Matt Ballin play a decisive part in? Has anyone ever asked if we could have won more if we had a different hooker back then?

Penrith are the reigning premiers... and for reportedly twice the price of Croker, their hooker (when he has the ball) hardly runs, doesn't kick, and they aren't going shopping for another one. Do they know something Silvertails don't?

I love Froggy but his use by date as starting 9 is over ... imho We have Gordy & Humphries both off contract at the end of 24, and Jersey Flegg hooker/captain Nicholas Lenaz.

The club sees how the players perform during the months of pre-season training every year, while people here do not. They also see how the Blacktown players perform in reserve grade every week. They aren't stupid... if a player is bashing down the door to be selected in first-grade, then they will be selected. Coaches aren't in the business of demoting players back to reserve grade on a whim just to see how another player performs.

But we'll see how the team goes with Croker's stand-in/s.
 

nightster

The older I get the better I was
Premium Member
Tipping Member
A hooker usually distributes the ball 4-5 times a set and makes 30-40 tackles per match, so it depends how you define 'playing a decisive part'... How many wins did Matt Ballin play a decisive part in? Has anyone ever asked if we could have won more if we had a different hooker back then?

Penrith are the reigning premiers... and for reportedly twice the price of Croker, their hooker (when he has the ball) hardly runs, doesn't kick, and they aren't going shopping for another one. Do they know something Silvertails don't?



The club sees how the players perform during the months of pre-season training every year, while people here do not. They also see how the Blacktown players perform in reserve grade every week. They aren't stupid... if a player is bashing down the door to be selected in first-grade, then they will be selected. Coaches aren't in the business of demoting players back to reserve grade on a whim just to see how another player performs.

But we'll see how the team goes with Croker's stand-in/s.
I wasn't bagging Froggy - and I did ask would we have won less without him - quite possibly - I think this forced rest will do him good, of course concussion is not a great reason for having that break. I don't think Lawman gives us what GCKT does.
 

manly al

First Grader
Definitely been a bit worse for wear so far this season for Froggy , no criticism and no reflection on his willingness to still wholeheartedly contribute . Just a bit more prevalence in getting knocked around more and for whatever reason and which does seem to be affecting his overall game effectiveness then .
Lawton has been stepping up reasonably well with a bit of an exception the other night when a bit wayward again .
Probably an opportune time for Froggy to have a bit of a break . Still has featured quite well in general but looks like it is taking a bit of a toll more so this season in the battering department for him
Not too sure how Blacktown went on the weekend but maybe more inclined to go with Gordy as the starting 9 although sure also that Humphries would give it a decent shot there as well .
Could well still go with starting Lawton, if he can just focus on the or a basic 9 role and keep it simple and with plenty of energy all round , might go O K or sufficiently well to get the job done
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
A hooker usually distributes the ball 4-5 times a set and makes 30-40 tackles per match, so it depends how you define 'playing a decisive part'... How many wins did Matt Ballin play a decisive part in? Has anyone ever asked if we could have won more if we had a different hooker back then?

Penrith are the reigning premiers... and for reportedly twice the price of Croker, their hooker (when he has the ball) hardly runs, doesn't kick, and they aren't going shopping for another one. Do they know something Silvertails don't?



The club sees how the players perform during the months of pre-season training every year, while people here do not. They also see how the Blacktown players perform in reserve grade every week. They aren't stupid... if a player is bashing down the door to be selected in first-grade, then they will be selected. Coaches aren't in the business of demoting players back to reserve grade on a whim just to see how another player performs.

But we'll see how the team goes with Croker's stand-in/s.
This is close to “ post of the year “.

It amuses me no end the comments I read on here from the armchair coaches.

Your point about the Penrith hooker is a very good one.

I get that many teams are blessed to have “ running hookers “ and their play is adapted to that , we don’t , and our play is adapted to what we have.

Now , I have zero argument in a live wire hooker coming on at some stage , Gordie may well be that player , and to be honest I’d rather have him learning the trade than sticking with Lawton who is leaving BUT, why has our football department not pulled the trigger??
 

Ohgeez

Member
This is close to “ post of the year “.

It amuses me no end the comments I read on here from the armchair coaches.

Your point about the Penrith hooker is a very good one.

I get that many teams are blessed to have “ running hookers “ and their play is adapted to that , we don’t , and our play is adapted to what we have.

Now , I have zero argument in a live wire hooker coming on at some stage , Gordie may well be that player , and to be honest I’d rather have him learning the trade than sticking with Lawton who is leaving BUT, why has our football department not pulled the trigger??
It works for Penrith because they have the best ball playing lock in the comp that is basically a 3rd half for them & adds the extra dimension of attack to that team. Manly has a front rower playing lock & hookers with no creativity, either a young lock like Tallis Duncan with good speed & skills or as nightster suggested Mozer from broncos would be great for 2025. I know they are under contract but Billy Walters just signed a extension & Cam Murray wont be going anywhere so they could ask for a release
 

krusty

Reserve Grader
Tipping Member
This is close to “ post of the year “.

It amuses me no end the comments I read on here from the armchair coaches.

Your point about the Penrith hooker is a very good one.

I get that many teams are blessed to have “ running hookers “ and their play is adapted to that , we don’t , and our play is adapted to what we have.

Now , I have zero argument in a live wire hooker coming on at some stage , Gordie may well be that player , and to be honest I’d rather have him learning the trade than sticking with Lawton who is leaving BUT, why has our football department not pulled the trigger??
Agree with all this plus we are scoring 26 points per game lack of a running hooker isn’t our issue. Will be interesting to see how we go without froggy making those 40 tackles.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Agree with all this plus we are scoring 26 points per game lack of a running hooker isn’t our issue. Will be interesting to see how we go without froggy making those 40 tackles.
Don’t worry , they’ll find something else to whinge about.
 

JakeyB789

Reserve Grader
For all the Croker fanboys out there, of the 22 hookers (including the 14's that play there) that have played over 5 games this year, he is:

  • 1 of only 4 with under 3 runs per game alongside Mitch Kenny, Tyson Smoothy and our very own Karl Lawton. Croker and Lawton in fact run for less combined per game than 16 other hookers on their own!
  • 11th in tackles made (right in the middle of the pack) but 4th for missed tackles

Respect Croker for the heart and effort he plays with, but anyone who thinks he isn't a hindrance to our attack, or tries to compare us to Penrith because he and Kenny are similar are kidding themselves.

With that said I'd still start him at 9 and only play him for the first 25-30 and the last 10-15, with GCKT or Humphreys playing through the middle of the game. The days of Croker playing 60 and being completely gassed by the end of it (often coinciding with us losing momentum and blowing leads), and then being replaced by Lawton who has offers nothing more (and is leaving!) need to end. Time for some change, hopefully this week is the start of it
 

madmax

Bencher
Look I'm harsh on the Meerkat, but never for what he brings in defence. I think his toughness and technique is unquestionable, but playing dummy half whilst you develop instills a muscle memory, and smoothness that the Braileys, Wade Egan, and even API the former rainbow chucker exemplify. Croker is legitimately 1.4-2 seconds slower than them and is no threat from dummy half ever.

GCKT is the answer, and of course he won't compensate for what Croker does now but he needs to be brought through. This ducking situation since Fainu ducked up has cost the team in ways they will never admit publicly

Another thought is Jake Arthur on the bench to cover for the scrappy situation which arises when there's a monster forward pack fading around minute sixteen to eighteen which deletes any opportunity of an attacking interchange because Croker's clean up can't be risked.

Time to move Jake to front row and Brown to lock, Arthur and GCKT on the bench, bye bye Lawton and Bullemore until injuries strike Lodge Sipley Arthur Gordy on the bench moves Brown to front row if required and when Ben T comes back that's a team that can accommodate a lot of defensive and attacking structural injury related needs.

Don't get me started on the three games Reuben Garrick has cost the team with his erratic defence and ballhog attitude in attack. There's another thread for that seems overrun by people who want to marry him.
Yeah blame Garrick. Every game we lose it’s Garrick that cost us! Every game we win is not because of Garrick. Yep Garrick is a hog, weak tackler, useless goal kicker, not a Center & seems isn’t a 1st grader according to you! I bow to your incite & knowledge!
 

God

Bencher
God is thankful you're thankful 🙏 too, please say 7 hail Mary's and 4 lords prayers and ask forgiveness for what you did last weekend. Remember God sees everything unfortunately (for god) 😔
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
God is thankful you're thankful 🙏 too, please say 7 hail Mary's and 4 lords prayers and ask forgiveness for what you did last weekend. Remember God sees everything unfortunately (for god) 😔
Good to know that @God is a Manly supporter
Bless our Manly team with a win against the Dolphins Father all Mighty
 
Yeah blame Garrick. Every game we lose it’s Garrick that cost us! Every game we win is not because of Garrick. Yep Garrick is a hog, weak tackler, useless goal kicker, not a Center & seems isn’t a 1st grader according to you! I bow to your incite & knowledge!
I think he's a great kicker, I think he is a strong defender but is all at sea in the centres, and yeah he has never once looked to set up the man outside him over running himself in the games I've watched this year. I really like Garrick I just think wing or fullback is his spot.
 

Tragic Eagle

Tragic
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Gotta agree Reuben often looks like a deer in headlights when defending in the centres. He is a better winger than a centre IMO.
 

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