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The Penny has dropped from a great height!

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Enigma, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

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    We are going around in ever decreasing circles talking about coaches , injuries , culture and every other possible reason why Manly are low on the table in 2016. I have missed the most important point. Leading up to our recent golden era something went dramatically right with recruitment and continued for many years, along with developing these players. All the unknowns who led us to titles along with the "has beens" who came good. But the recruitment in perhaps the end of the Hasler era into the Toovey spell has unearthed virtually no players who of first grade standard let alone rep quality. So what does Barrett and Bozo see running around in the season before Barrett takes over? Apart from DCE , virtually a whole team of former champions who are done and a whole lot of recruits who are not 1st grade quality. Of course the brothers are the shining lights, but Bozo has recruited some players who do look like they belong in 1st grade and who are potential rep players. Have I missed anyone who has been recruited in the last five years (up to 2015) who is anything like the quality of the previous spell? Toovey would have won a premiership with a couple of emerging stars but everything depended on the older players. Why have we not developed and recruited even one top notch first grader in the five years leading up to 2015? I remember watching the Eagles play Souths in 75 ,I think at the brook and Souths were a bit like us last year, on paper loaded with champions but it was an illusion because they were former champions. We won 56 nil. No wonder disco Des cleared out.
     
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    • Rusty Cage

      Rusty Cage Active Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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      This problem with champion teams is when the club needs to move on club legends they are immediately shot down by the other players, fans and the media.
      Its really a no win situation. Do what's needed and there's disharmony, don't do anything and there's a much longer team rebuild.

      Who would want to run a professional sports team!

      Saying that Buying Nate was a mistake. Should of spent the cash pinching a really good kid from another team.
       
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      • Fro

        Fro Well-Known Member

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        Buying Nate kept Cherry happy, and he is still the old head in the pack off field as well.

        but yes on field he has been less than stellar.
         
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        • HappilyManly

          HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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          Simple - to keep the Champion Players that you speak of, Des backended all their contracts.
          So every year, the available Cap to add new blood, was reduced. 2015 was the end of Des' backended contracts.:)

          This year's major recruits are a huge disappointment. Lets hope that Scott Fulton is not Manly's answer to Crusher Cleal for long :cool:

          Manly has developed great talent - Chez Buhrer, Darcy,Jorge,Turbos, Foran,Gutho, Hiku but the last 2 were moved on due to Cap restrictions
           
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            Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
          • Fluffy

            Fluffy Well-Known Member

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            Dce, Foz, Buhrer, Turbo 1, Turbo 2 all started in the 2010 to 2015 era
             
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            • manlyfan76

              manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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              The only constant in our recent years of demise is a certain goat photo possessing reserve grade coach.
              WAKE up Sheeple.
               
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              • Enigma

                Enigma Active Member

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                I recognise that back ended contracts are another factor
                Most of these are from another era or local juniors who are here anyway. Hiku is one of the few from the last five years recruited from other area and that is my simple point. If we didn't recruit the Stewarts , Matai , Joe , Wolf , Trex , Lyon , Ballin, DCE , Robbo, who were virtual unkowns mostly from OTHER areas we win nothing and Hasler gets the sack. We have not had remotely the same success in recruiting unknowns in the last 5 years and it shows. The equivalent from the last five years are either reserve graders at other clubs or whatever. The recruitment in the last 5 is clearly dismal. Watching Easts the other day I could see plenty of talent that they recruited recently that we missed out on.
                 
              • Enigma

                Enigma Active Member

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                Foz is gone and was here ages ago , I already said DCE was an exception and the Turbos were always going to play here unless we completely stuffed up. Look at all the players we have recruited from OTHER areas in the last five years and if you think it is not a factor in our lowly position then one of us is wrong.
                 
              • HappilyManly

                HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                Bozo's been in charge of recruitment since October 2014. T Wright and J Walker will be old enough next year to potentially make NRL appearances.

                With the Salary Cap and the lure of ESL, I don't see long term players at any Sydney Clubs any more.
                The one Team Cities have the huge pool of TPAs to attract/keep any star player @:cool:
                 
              • Enigma

                Enigma Active Member

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                I checked , Foran, DCE and Buher were recruited to the Manly club in 2008 , just as Tom Wright has been recruited from elsewhere. How many premierships will we win in the future if the bleak recruitment effort of unearthing virtually no talent in 5 years from external sources was allowed to continue . Answer , none , despite the coach. Potential great signings after the bleak era, by Bozo (I guess) Kapow, Lussick , the two hookers, AFB, Tom wright , Meehan and more to come. I won't name all the poor recruits prior to this or put a % on it but the figures would blow away any other % quoted to prove a point ever posted
                 
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                • Bearfax

                  Bearfax Well-Known Member

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                  I understand picking up Miles because as has been mentioned you need some good old heads in your team. But it should only be a few old heads.

                  Buying Taupau, Walker, Parcell, Koriasau, Blake, maybe even Willame and Leary was sensible, but what of the rest. Its there that they picked up a number of cheapees instead of looking to a bunch of young guns.

                  Picking up Tom Wright was a master stroke it seems. But wasted money caused us to lose Gutherson and Hiku, for a bunch of reserve graders.

                  Fulton did well in some recruitment areas but he should have been a little more selective and perhaps kept Barrett out of selection choices for now. What needs to happen now is to think one maybe two top rankers and the rest kids with lots of potential. And there's a lot of them around but very few playing for Manly lower grades. They also need to ensure they keep the Trbojevics, , Jamil and Sione Hopoate, Tom Wright, Knight and Parker
                   
                • NewwyEagle

                  NewwyEagle I sleep in a racing car

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                  The club has a very big problem. The fact that our top 3 grades have a combined record of 17 wins from 68 games is embarrassing. As a club we have lost over 50 games this season, and that number will definitely be increasing in these final few rounds.
                  Our sponsor doesn't want to sponsor us, we've got the poorest home record that I can remember us ever having and we have a coach that couldn't make the finals with the panthers juniors (who are again coming first).
                  I'm not sure how these clowns running the club can tell people we're moving in the right direction. Maybe it's because they think we can't possibly be any worse next season.
                   
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                  • Chip and Chase

                    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                    You've answered your own question. Because we recruited all those named and others (Lawrence, Horo, Kite, Choc etc) we ended up with a team of stars who chewed up the whole of our cap. You can't recruit people if you can't pay them. Bozo's ability to recruit has been because we have freed up cash by moving some of them on, Gifty, Choc, Kitey, Foz etc. If you have money to spend you can go to market.

                    Des started from a very low base and had the chance to build his team from scratch. Tooves inherited an established side with long term players locked into contracts not of his doing. Don't get me wrong it was a good side, and Tooves came within a whisker in 2013, but he had to work with what he was given. Baz and Bozo have had more freedom to build a side of their own design as they had cap space to play with. As the established brigade move on it stands to reason we will see some fresh blood come in to replace them.

                    As for Easts ? How has that talent we missed out being going for them this year ? aren't they below us on the table.
                     
                  • Freagle

                    Freagle Well-Known Member Premium Member

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                    Another point is that we have moved on the "also-rans" who were, I imagine, exposed to the mid-2000s Manly Ethic (winning mentality) that passed from BK down to Glenn Stewart, Brent Kite, Anthony Watmough, Brett Stewart, etc. I'm sure that mentality would have lifted players like Horo, Ligi Sao, Dunamis Lui et al, and that they played above themselves to some extent. Look at Sao, Lui, JSL this season - barely seen in first grade at other clubs, who are paying more for them than we were.

                    Point is, out new recruits have a smaller exposure to the winning Manly culture, and it seems it has not rubbed on them much. Or at all, really.
                     
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                    • Clay

                      Clay Well-Known Member

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                      Look what happened when Toovey wanted to cut Glenn.

                      It's a bit of a balancing act, the way Toovey moved on kite and Glenn and didn't budge on his offer to Watmough makes me truely belive he had the knowledge/ strategy to revamp this side, it's a shame he wasn't given full control of Receuitment and was white anted.

                      I don't care how or who does it but I hope Manly is a winning team next year
                       
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                      • Freagle

                        Freagle Well-Known Member Premium Member

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                        Very true Clay. I would really love to get more of the manly legends back into the fold though, I do believe that the 'feeling' of the place has gone missing. Get Ballin, Kite, Jason King out there to lead recruitment, train for fitness, etc. Let their attitude and experience rub off on the recruits.
                         
                      • SeaEagleRock8

                        SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                        Toovey said in 2012 that his hands were tied for recruitment for 2013 because of the back-ended deals already in place. He said all we could afford was journeyman types - and that it would be even worse for the next 2 years.

                        Despite this we managed to sign Peta Hiku and Ligi Sao for 2013, who were both touted as future stars after their Toyota Cup exploits, in addition to Michael Chee Kam [in May 2012 he signed a 3-year deal, and later was named at second-row in the 2012 NYC Team of the Year].

                        In 2014 we got Manaia Rudolph who had also been a former star at Toyota level.

                        This year we seem to have added Fonua-Blake and Meehan, both previously touted as future top-liners.

                        So - we have continued to sign some young talent, despite this process being hampered by the awkward transition as members of our champion team neared their use-by date.

                        However, they don't all kick on. And we aren't one of those clubs who can buy them in bulk, to maximise the chances of striking the jackpot.
                         
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                        • Enigma

                          Enigma Active Member

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                          We have definately recruited plenty of players over the last 5 years from other areas but as I thought I explained , hardly any at all have become 1st graders least of all rep players. I know you can recruit less when you have a great team , that is obvious ,but if you were appointed recruitment officer 5 years ago would you say that you will not unearth anyone? Melbourne have done it and that is why they are still doing well . As for Easts being below us on the table ,so what ?, they have spent many years below us on the table but are the most successful club of the NRL era last time I saw an article on the topic. If you think Easts position on the table now is a reflection of their talent or recruitment or future we are on a different page because they probably care more about the future than the odd season in limbo.
                           
                        • Enigma

                          Enigma Active Member

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                          That's exactly the point I was making , we signed plenty of players but our strike rate was incredibly poor. None of the potential stars turned into real stars and none of the journey men surprised on the upside. That is one reason we are having such a big rebuild now.
                           
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                          • Fluffy

                            Fluffy Well-Known Member

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                            Funny, every article I have read has Manly and Melbourne the most successful modern era teams and one of those had to cheat to do so.
                             
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