What side would Des select.....?

[Smokin Joe]

Has Siro been officially re signed yet ? Guess that the complexion of the forward line up will be dependent on him being part of the mix and should still have plenty to offer with his effective line running and his mobility if he is is injury free and on his game . Jake to me [ and as one of the most durable players in the N R L ,] best contribution is to be on the paddock as long as possible and can not see any real gain with a prop option role for him . Pretty sure that Marty played most of his pre Manly days in the back row and of the bench but his lateral defence continues to be an issue and his go forward and off loads as a prop really put Manly on the front foot when he just focuses on more direct running . Just do not seem to have the prop depth at present to warrant him being used as a back rower . Tanga seems much more damaging as a back rower also and not just slogging it up the middle , that is where Pasaka and hopefully Sipley can step up quite a bit as good impact rotation props . Fainu " s present tackling technique is to go a little higher to wrap up the ball and unavoidable for him then to concede some meters , where A P I tends to have that high work rate , lower tackling style which reduces meters gained . Both have that element of versatility and can be a natural bench combination and no reason why their dummy half service can not improve . Now with Lane gone , need the best possible defensive type forwards spending most time on the field and again that should definitely include Jake .

Because having Jake on the field for 80 this year did wonders for our defense?No offense Al.but I think having a fresh middle rotation might be more beneficial,Jake was outstanding at prop last night and played less than 40,I would give him more time than that as obviously it is an Australian side with more talent....Our issues this year defensively were more out wide and Jake does not defend there,having better defensive structures in place and a proper defensive coach(hopefully Des will fix that)will probably help more than leaving tired players out there for longer.(just my opinion).If you want to leave Jake out for longer at lock,then you probably need more runs from the second row and more impact and interchanges there,there are many ways to skin a cat apparently and I am sure whoever is coach will look at all options(hopefully)

 

[manly al]

Because having Jake on the field for 80 this year did wonders for our defense?No offense Al.but I think having a fresh middle rotation might be more beneficial,Jake was outstanding at prop last night and played less than 40,I would give him more time than that as obviously it is an Australian side with more talent....Our issues this year defensively were more out wide and Jake does not defend there,having better defensive structures in place and a proper defensive coach(hopefully Des will fix that)will probably help more than leaving tired players out there for longer.(just my opinion).If you want to leave Jake out for longer at lock,then you probably need more runs from the second row and more impact and interchanges there,there are many ways to skin a cat apparently and I am sure whoever is coach will look at all options(hopefully)

Might help our prop rotation in maintaining some important momentum with having Jake up front and taking into account that he played all of his junior club and rep games there but who can we put at the back then to replicate or provide that essential work rate there . Jet ski has plenty of mobility but of course at this stage tacking deficient issues , Amore seems to be up for it but still unproven . Siro [ again is he even re signed yet ] Frank seems a bit on the outer . Thommo , good value but hard to sustain a high work rate for the entire eighty . Tanga , very good in patches . Can certainly see where you are coming from and of course does have some merit with the Jake for prop option but again is the back row proven quality there at present . Anyway i guess that that is what a useful off season preparation and then trial matches is all about . .

 

[Snake]

I personally don't think our roster is going to resemble what it does now. I think we'll lose Kelly and maybe Taupau (hope not) and we will probably pick up a few depth signings. I also think Des flicked Hodko in favour of Mbye and Reynolds. Can't see him getting a start over Elgey.

Plenty will happen in the next month with retention and recruitment.

 

[manly al]

Also who knows , young Waddell may prove a revelation and back rowers young Schuster and even youngest Turbo may be on the i st grade scene for Manly reasonably soon . Speaking of the Schusters , do you know what has become of Peter and his Manly connection ?

 

[Smokin Joe]

Also who knows , young Waddell may prove a revelation and back rowers young Schuster and even youngest Turbo may be on the i st grade scene for Manly reasonably soon . Speaking of the Schusters , do you know what has become of Peter and his Manly connection ?

Unfortunately,(my thoughts)Peter spent the year on the wing in Blacktowns RMC side,Hales does not seem to think he can play and seemed to prefer bigger/slower outside backs,promoting the likes of Folau/Toutai,Filimo and even Tuha over him.I think he is a better player but if the current coach doesn't,then what can you do?Hopefully he stays and gets a run,but I get the feeling maybe will look elsewhere,probably Shute shield or similar....

 

[Woodsie]

@Smokin Joe ... my main concern at having Jake at prop is one of size ... whilst a great defender and tireless worker he lacks for want of a better word "dominance" ... just opinion but I think his overall effectiveness would suffer, and I don't mind his backrow attacking role evolving into ball play ala Gifty style .... but hey .... you don't know til you try ...

 

[MW66]

I personally don't think our roster is going to resemble what it does now. I think we'll lose Kelly and maybe Taupau (hope not) and we will probably pick up a few depth signings. I also think Des flicked Hodko in favour of Mbye and Reynolds. Can't see him getting a start over Elgey.

Plenty will happen in the next month with retention and recruitment.

Hey Snake - always enjoy your posts and it appears you always have some inside info. Re Kelly you have mentioned a few times that you don’t think he will be here next year - what are you hearing. As far as I know he is on contract for next season, why would Manly let him go early? I rate him and think he will only get better.

 

[Snake]

Hey Snake - always enjoy your posts and it appears you always have some inside info. Re Kelly you have mentioned a few times that you don’t think he will be here next year - what are you hearing. As far as I know he is on contract for next season, why would Manly let him go early? I rate him and think he will only get better.

It's certainly not a case of letting him go because he is not wanted, it's more to do with money he can now demand elsewhere due to a strong season just gone. Our cap position means we need to shed some players and centre is one position on the field that you can get away with budget buys to fill a hole. It can also come down to what you already have available in those positions (a guy like Suli for example). THe way the cap works now, players are always looking for upgrades mid contract and Kelly won't be getting one of them here, so he will probably seek a release to sign a better deal elsewhere.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Just because they were originally at manly does not mean they are good buys. I hate this line of thought that we must get anyone who has been here back again. Buhrer and gutho have at least 6 knee reco's between them and buhrer has lost all agility and gutho is a victim of his own versatility and still hasn't cemented 1 position in first grade

No to these too.

Well I would have Gutherson in my side any day of the week. I certainly agree he is injury prone but he is a talent and would bring a huge amount to the table. But yep - a bit of a roll the dice with injuries. Surely luck has to go his way.

 

[Woodsie]

Well I would have Gutherson in my side any day of the week. I certainly agree he is injury prone but he is a talent and would bring a huge amount to the table. But yep - a bit of a roll the dice with injuries. Surely luck has to go his way.

Agree Gutho brings passion, desire and a skill set ... almost the perfect utility ... problem is he that he is probably on specialist backline/halfs money .... with the salary cap managment he would be a difficult player to accomodate unless his role and the money was he was on were in synch ...

 

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe ... my main concern at having Jake at prop is one of size ... whilst a great defender and tireless worker he lacks for want of a better word "dominance" ... just opinion but I think his overall effectiveness would suffer, and I don't mind his backrow attacking role evolving into ball play ala Gifty style .... but hey .... you don't know til you try ...

Yeah,but he went pretty well against that big Tongan pack last night(more than held his own)he is a naturally freakish strong sort of guy as well.He might not wind up and come off the back fence,but does it differently.

 

[Smokin Joe]

You watch Des give opportunity to a couple of lazy, journeymen and turn them into pillars of the defensive unit. Once he gets this right, he works on their offensive development.
Think Rodney, Hall, Bryant, Mauro and the list goes on. He also significantly improved quality players and pushed them to the next level. Kite, Perry, Whatmough, G Stewart
Can’t wait

Most people think we already have enough lazy journeymen,maybe he could just work with the ones we have and transform them?

 

[MW66]

It's certainly not a case of letting him go because he is not wanted, it's more to do with money he can now demand elsewhere due to a strong season just gone. Our cap position means we need to shed some players and centre is one position on the field that you can get away with budget buys to fill a hole. It can also come down to what you already have available in those positions (a guy like Suli for example). THe way the cap works now, players are always looking for upgrades mid contract and Kelly won't be getting one of them here, so he will probably seek a release to sign a better deal elsewhere.

I guess this is where it is critical we have a coach and list manager asap. Decisions re Kelly vs Suli, Walker off contract in 2020 means we need a longer term view. Must admit i would be concerned if we lost Kelly and Taupau and only signed depth players. Feels like one step forward, two steps back atm.

 

[Heckenberg]

Interested to see how Siro is going to fit in. He has played about 13 gsmes per year on average.
Des could have plans to use him as the ball playing forward.

Would love to see Siro in a roaming role as lock. He would be dangerous as ****

 

[double hoops]

Because having Jake on the field for 80 this year did wonders for our defense?No offense Al.but I think having a fresh middle rotation might be more beneficial,Jake was outstanding at prop last night and played less than 40,I would give him more time than that as obviously it is an Australian side with more talent....Our issues this year defensively were more out wide and Jake does not defend there,having better defensive structures in place and a proper defensive coach(hopefully Des will fix that)will probably help more than leaving tired players out there for longer.(just my opinion).If you want to leave Jake out for longer at lock,then you probably need more runs from the second row and more impact and interchanges there,there are many ways to skin a cat apparently and I am sure whoever is coach will look at all options(hopefully)

It's certainly not a case of letting him go because he is not wanted, it's more to do with money he can now demand elsewhere due to a strong season just gone. Our cap position means we need to shed some players and centre is one position on the field that you can get away with budget buys to fill a hole. It can also come down to what you already have available in those positions (a guy like Suli for example). THe way the cap works now, players are always looking for upgrades mid contract and Kelly won't be getting one of them here, so he will probably seek a release to sign a better deal elsewhere.

Letting your best up and comers go is never the answer.

If the club can't afford Kelly and Lane, then they may as well let AFB go now as well.

Enough bleeding. We need to keep the good Kids. Above all else.

 

[double hoops]

Croker in front of Api??????? really???

DES wants hookers who just pass and tackle. As both API and Fainu like to take the line on and probe, it rules both of them out.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Good to know, just strange to see everyone have him in their sides without even hearing of him myself. Looks the goods visually, could be a workhorse strong guy.

I’m not a racist person, barely at all, and nor do I intend to be by this, although why are we beginning to look like the New Zealand Sea Eagles. Let’s develop some of our own players rather then bring them from NZ or the West. Amone may in fact be a local, although there’s no way that all our juniors/current players which are majority islander, being locally developed. That’s something that’s gone wrong since the club started going downhill, their care of locals.

Hopefully if Tooves does get that junior assistant or whatever role he brings the manly back to manly in that department as well. Sometimes buying the biggest and strongest isn’t as good as developing quality playing fans into players. They will stay loyal, and they will know the basics of manly

I get your point,but under Des and Tooves in the past we have developed locals/juniors only to be let go(Lussick brothers,Cuthbertson,Hopoate brothers,Gutherson,Oldfield,Charlie Taylor,Liam Knight,Daniel Harrison,Foran,JWH,now Tom Wright).No point developing them only to let them go,doesn't really matter if they are locals or white or not.....as for loyalty,it goes both ways and it is a business now,more so than ever.I get your point though,league is still a tribal game....

 

[manly al]

Unfortunately,(my thoughts)Peter spent the year on the wing in Blacktowns RMC side,Hales does not seem to think he can play and seemed to prefer bigger/slower outside backs,promoting the likes of Folau/Toutai,Filimo and even Tuha over him.I think he is a better player but if the current coach doesn't,then what can you do?Hopefully he stays and gets a run,but I get the feeling maybe will look elsewhere,probably Shute shield or similar....

Thanks for the info , thought that he may have had a season ending injury . Just one player who i thought and if given a better opportunity in better company , had the natural ability to maybe go on to impress more . Black town workers last season seemed to have the same issues as the i st grade side , injury and lack of continuity aside , could not put a solid and consistent eighty minutes together and the defensive lapses and despite being well in contention in quite a few matches . Might just be a negative cultural mindset at present and one that can hopefully be addressed over the off season . Tuha seems good on his feet and maybe he something more to offer and improve on for better recognition .

 

[Snake]

It's certainly not a case of letting him go because he is not wanted, it's more to do with money he can now demand elsewhere due to a strong season just gone. Our cap position means we need to shed some players and centre is one position on the field that you can get away with budget buys to fill a hole. It can also come down to what you already have available in those positions (a guy like Suli for example). THe way the cap works now, players are always looking for upgrades mid contract and Kelly won't be getting one of them here, so he will probably seek a release to sign a better deal elsewhere.

Yeah I would also be disappointed...he is a genuine centre who can make something happen and/or set up his outside man with some footwork and a pass.

As for Taupau, I think he would be a massive loss in terms of metres but I question whether he is good for the "team".

 

[double hoops]

Yeah I would also be disappointed...he is a genuine centre who can make something happen and/or set up his outside man with some footwork and a pass.

As for Taupau, I think he would be a massive loss in terms of metres but I question whether he is good for the "team".

Surely it's the older and higher paid player you let go, when a quality kid in the team is in hot demand.

The club is spending years developing quality young kids like Gutherson and Chee Kam.

And as soon as they are first grade developed, under Penn the club can't afford to keep em.

I know we can't keep em all, but it is starting to become that Manly are keeping none.

The thought of now potentially being without.

Lane
Kelly
& AFB in 2019.

F me, how are Manly ever going to compete.

Fund us or F off Penn.