What the Sharks/Storm are doing well.....are we ??

[The Indian]

Be warned It's a long read so be prepared for that - not light reading after a few beers. Enter at own risk.

But its a great article about Sports Analytics. Analytics are the future and this is a great example of how far some will go to gain small advantages.

Note the differences between say the Sharks/Storm and the Bulldogs. Basically measuring the number of non ball carrying runners who engage the defence and offer cover for the actual ball runners. I'd imagine we'd be a bit down on this statistic as well. Somewhere in the middle I'm guessing. But worth a read if you're a stat man/woman.

This might be the most important stat you've never heard of - and Cronulla are dominating in it

Deep-diving push supports, potentially the best rugby league stat that you've never heard of.

www.theroar.com.au

 

[The Who]

The Sharks and The Storm eh? Hummm, I think I remember these two clubs for gaining advantages that the NRL deemed "unsportsmanlike".
Am I correct?

 

[mave]

Once SuperLeague Scum, always SuperLeague Scum.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Remember my story last year about the Storm employing a retired referee who monitors each game , and is on the phone for 80 minutes to a Storm staffer who in turn passes the information to Bellyache.

It’s basically assessing the referee, minute by minute and detailing how far he can be pushed before giving away a penalty.

Assessing how far they can go before a 6 again , and so on.

I’d doubt we do it , Des is old school , and it’s starting to show.

 

[The Indian]

The Sharks and The Storm eh? Hummm, I think I remember these two clubs for gaining advantages that the NRL deemed "unsportsmanlike".
Am I correct?

You probably are correct knowing the Sharks and the Storm....but nobody has been able to stat Peptides by the litre or how many Boats a player needs in order to maximize performance.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Be warned It's a long read so be prepared for that - not light reading after a few beers. Enter at own risk.

But its a great article about Sports Analytics. Analytics are the future and this is a great example of how far some will go to gain small advantages.

Note the differences between say the Sharks/Storm and the Bulldogs. Basically measuring the number of non ball carrying runners who engage the defence and offer cover for the actual ball runners. I'd imagine we'd be a bit down on this statistic as well. Somewhere in the middle I'm guessing. But worth a read if you're a stat man/woman.

This might be the most important stat you've never heard of - and Cronulla are dominating in it

Deep-diving push supports, potentially the best rugby league stat that you've never heard of.

www.theroar.com.au

Interesting.
This bit wasn't to the main point of the article but still notable anyway:
"Fun fact: the best attacking side, Melbourne, are top for scoots from acting half, while the second-best, Cronulla, are last. There’s many ways to skin a cat."

 

[The Indian]

Remember my story last year about the Storm employing a retired referee who monitors each game , and is on the phone for 80 minutes to a Storm staffer who in turn passes the information to Bellyache.

It’s basically assessing the referee, minute by minute and detailing how far he can be pushed before giving away a penalty.

Assessing how far they can go before a 6 again , and so on.

I’d doubt we do it , Des is old school , and it’s starting to show.

Yes all these things seem minor at first glance but if nobody else is doing it ( or doing it well ) then the advantage you can gain is all upside. You have to be at the cutting edge of it to gain the best advantage before the followers crowd catches up.

Whereas a stat like completion rates has been over done to death and loses all it's meaning cause it's been said 47 million times. See Trent Barrett at the Bulldogs.

 

[Snake]

@Technical Coach has been saying we need more players pushing up around the ball on each play for years!

It’s a great stat and highly evident when you watch the games. It stands out.

I’ve mentioned a number of times that I think our pack is too cumbersome and one of the drawbacks of having a big pack, is push supports. They just don’t bounce around enough. It’s a big hit up and then a breather. It’s no surprise that Jake and Walks are probably the two best exponents of pushing up as additional options in attack, given the speed and agility of the former and the work ethic and fitness of latter.

 

[StuBoot]

Good article, it's the little things that make a difference.
It wasn't all Talakai but the sum of the parts, some teams just do it better for many reasons.

I happened to watch the last few minutes of the Raider v Dogs match on FOX.
The Doges were chasing the game yet they just threw the ball from one side to the other, the backline was deep enough but no-one engaged the defence, they'd throw a cut out pass that offered no threat.
Get tackled and go back the other way, absolutely NO "push supports'..yet they were only 10 behind.

I know Parker has his detractors on here but he's one of the best "push supports" in the game imo, to keep charging up knowing you're not getting the ball or get a crash ball would be a tough role to play.

 

[maxta]

Pretty simple article, yet effective platform that adds to competing on and off the ball
Been like a broken record in these threads about effort plays and numbers
In attack to provide options and take heat off the runner and in defence to slow the opposition attacking tempo.
Support play happens naturally when attack has momentum and a side scoring freely will have 2-3 runners in support, yet when struggling, go back to Indian file
Certainly adds a positive mindset as numbers both side of the ball set a standard in desire and builds energy across the field

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It’s no surprise that Jake and Walks are probably the two best exponents of pushing up as additional options in attack, given the speed and agility of the former and the work ethic and fitness of latter.

I think this is why Davey seems to be an automatic pick whenever he is fit. He takes all that stuff seriously and pays attention to detail. Bullemor's speed and fitness fit the model too.
Agree with @StuBoot about Parker too, he takes those runs, provides options and support (and rarely bombs a try by obstruction).

 

[mickqld]

Remember my story last year about the Storm employing a retired referee who monitors each game , and is on the phone for 80 minutes to a Storm staffer who in turn passes the information to Bellyache.

It’s basically assessing the referee, minute by minute and detailing how far he can be pushed before giving away a penalty.

Assessing how far they can go before a 6 again , and so on.

I’d doubt we do it , Des is old school , and it’s starting to show.

Unlike many industries the spineless NRL won't implement a ban on employees with such influence being employed elsewhere at clubs where there is an obvious conflict of interest.

 

[Rocky]

I was sitting in the Bob Fulton stand behind the posts for the Tigers game. Even the Tigers were involving a lot more of their players in their Tryline attack than Manly. All Manly really has is that sweeping move that chimes Turbo into it, that opponents are now reading like the proverbial.

 

[Brissie Kid]

Give the credit to Glenn Stewart. In the early 2000s halfbacks were quarterbacks and the forwards were doing nothing with the ball, until mid way through his career Glenn started ball playing with support runners. Now there's ball playing backrowers everywhere.

 

[Brissie Kid]

I also wonder if these push supports trend is the result of getting rid in the early 1990s of the attacking team having to be back 5m from the play the ball.

 

[Snake]

It’s not just a standard decoy runner we’re talking about either...decoys that play off the back of shape are something every club employs.

Push supports are about having pass options either side of a standard ruck, be it yardage or a settler inside opposition 20. If you have push support, it makes it impossible for the opposition to gang tackle and slow the ruck down. The defence has to hold because there are other potential receivers, and you get 1-2 players in the tackle tops and you can get a quick play-the- ball for the halves to play fast over the ad line.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

I'll keep on saying it: rugby league is not rocket science, and attempts to make it rocket science will always be defeated by the dudes who play it (who, with few exceptions, are not rocket scientists).

"Push supports" is nothing new and really comes down to attacking structure and intent - the intent here being to engage the defence and gain an advantage. It's how you score tries. It takes effort, attention to detail and a plan that includes looking ahead so that you're not just thinking about one tackle in the set but also about the next tackle, and the tackle after that. Really, it's shape and movement, and when a good team puts it into practice, it's beautiful to watch. Cronulla do it well. The Cowboys are also doing it well this year. Melbourne always do it well. Manly? Not so much.

 

[Red Baron]

"Push supports" is nothing new and really comes down to attacking structure and intent - the intent here being to engage the defence and gain an advantage. It's how you score tries. It takes effort, attention to detail and a plan that includes looking ahead so that you're not just thinking about one tackle in the set but also about the next tackle, and the tackle after that. Really, it's shape and movement, and when a good team puts it into practice, it's beautiful to watch. Cronulla do it well. The Cowboys are also doing it well this year. Melbourne always do it well. Manly? Not so much.

This is the best post I have read in a long time. Manly are so unprepared in attack and we just wing it on the 4th and 5th tackles. Storm, as you mentioned, always have structure and discipline and they actually know what they are doing.

 

[Rafferty]

From memory our game against the Tits was probably our best attacking structure of the year so far, with Foz pushing into the line, we had Parker and Davey running nice decoy-support lines eithe side, with Garrick sweeping round the back, it was all these wheels in motion that caused the Titans defenders problems.

Davey went close to scoring a couple running nice inside lines, while Parker played his part running his usual support lines (which most teams have studied and look for) but with Davey running nice lines inside now, it gives Foz options, in that particular game Garrick swept around the back to score untouched, Davey and Parker run nice lines for Foz’s try and our left edge looked really good with the ball.

Its all about players in motion around nice shape, with a ball player like Foz who will play deep into the line and the smarts to pick the right option, it’s a shame both Davey and Brad are injured as that left side combo was looking to be coming together nicely. In saying that happy to see our young boys get game time and hopefully hold their places in the side, looking to the future.

 

[jbb/james]

keep playing ad lib and unstructured , get different forwards that can go the distance and hope its good enough
keep the same forwards, change the style to diminish there struggle with long minutes under the pump, extra 1% plays and the inevitable large defensive workload it brings

its one of the things i bang on about. this area of our game has been a mess for sometime, we think we have cracked the code by playing faster because of toms success last year but we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot because the team just doesnt know its own identity, and thats the reasoning i can muster, the alternatives are scary