Win Metres or Tempo??

[maxta]

After watching the Illawarra game again sober, seen a common area of Manly games in 2018.
Seem to match or often beat opposition in forward metres, but more importantly- still lose the tackle.
Majority of tackles, our players are put on their backs in attack while conversely, the opposition though not matching go forward, usually land on fronts and play the ball quicker, plus fight more to do so.
This leads to holes behind the ruck, Defensive line backpedaling and disorganised, their halves having time to create ect.
This maybe also why we cop more penalties against us, with the opposition showing more urgency in this area.
They tend to get more numbers into the tackle to control the player, hold in the wrestle, then peel off 1 by 1 as the defensive line resets.
The sad part of this factor, is Manly still showed the ability to create plenty of opportunities and this game alone should have scored at least 3 more tries....so on the back of improved tempo, can potentially rack up big scores against any team.
As for keeping them out, that’s another story....in saying that, it does coincide with this area as energy and attitude are a massive part of winning tempo....similar to defence.

 

[jbb/james]

Feel the same. I think the mamly dressing room is too concerned with post contact metres. Its a nice stat and the players work hard for the metres but they are not the be all and end all in the this game of ruck

 

[Woodsie]

After watching the Illawarra game again sober, seen a common area of Manly games in 2018.
Seem to match or often beat opposition in forward metres, but more importantly- still lose the tackle.
Majority of tackles, our players are put on their backs in attack while conversely, the opposition though not matching go forward, usually land on fronts and play the ball quicker, plus fight more to do so.
This leads to holes behind the ruck, Defensive line backpedaling and disorganised, their halves having time to create ect.
This maybe also why we cop more penalties against us, with the opposition showing more urgency in this area.
They tend to get more numbers into the tackle to control the player, hold in the wrestle, then peel off 1 by 1 as the defensive line resets.
The sad part of this factor, is Manly still showed the ability to create plenty of opportunities and this game alone should have scored at least 3 more tries....so on the back of improved tempo, can potentially rack up big scores against any team.
As for keeping them out, that’s another story....in saying that, it does coincide with this area as energy and attitude are a massive part of winning tempo....similar to defence.

We were good at it up until the crack down and we were penalised out of the game ..... same with line speed .... as soon as we started getting up quick and hitting we suffered penalty after penalty ......

So we became cautious ..... and law abiding ..... and it hasn't helped ....

 

[Fluffy]

After watching the Illawarra game again sober, seen a common area of Manly games in 2018.
Seem to match or often beat opposition in forward metres, but more importantly- still lose the tackle.
Majority of tackles, our players are put on their backs in attack while conversely, the opposition though not matching go forward, usually land on fronts and play the ball quicker, plus fight more to do so.
This leads to holes behind the ruck, Defensive line backpedaling and disorganised, their halves having time to create ect.
This maybe also why we cop more penalties against us, with the opposition showing more urgency in this area.
They tend to get more numbers into the tackle to control the player, hold in the wrestle, then peel off 1 by 1 as the defensive line resets.
The sad part of this factor, is Manly still showed the ability to create plenty of opportunities and this game alone should have scored at least 3 more tries....so on the back of improved tempo, can potentially rack up big scores against any team.
As for keeping them out, that’s another story....in saying that, it does coincide with this area as energy and attitude are a massive part of winning tempo....similar to defence.

we try that and get penalized.

Also wingers and centres and the fullback hitting it up on the 3rd and 4th results in slow play the balls and a compressed defence.

 

[maxta]

We were good at it up until the crack down and we were penalised out of the game ..... same with line speed .... as soon as we started getting up quick and hitting we suffered penalty after penalty ......

So we became cautious ..... and law abiding ..... and it hasn't helped ....

This may seem like a stretch, but that game against Tigers where they led by 30 odd points by h/t, Manly's start to the game defensively was the best I have seen with line speed and contact.....8 straight penalties later and with zero football for 15 minutes straight and down by 4 tries, have no doubt your theory here is spot on Woodsie.
Far as winning the tempo with quick plays in attack is unfortunately a different kettle of fish and the energy here in comparison to the opposition is clearly down.

 

[manly al]

Really not getting the benefit out of any good go forward and meters gained when the follow up play then just mainly revolves around a virtually stationary pivot in Hodko and largely disorganized and predictable input by D C E . Slightly slower play the balls also should not really inhibit a reasonably well drilled and structured attacking team . Also general line speed [ or slightly less ] is not that much of an issue when the one on one or initial contact defence is going O K . Look at the first three tries for the Dragons for instance, just poor tacking attempts by three particular Manly players and the one on one defence was not that much better against the Warriors . Get the fundamentals right or in better order and the most agile and quicker players on the field and some better organized attack and Manly may start to win some footy games again .

 

[Woodsie]

This may seem like a stretch, but that game against Tigers where they led by 30 odd points by h/t, Manly's start to the game defensively was the best I have seen with line speed and contact.....8 straight penalties later and with zero football for 15 minutes straight and down by 4 tries, have no doubt your theory here is spot on Woodsie.
Far as winning the tempo with quick plays in attack is unfortunately a different kettle of fish and the energy here in comparison to the opposition is clearly down.

Yep .... many things changed this year .... it is no fluke that the teams with the mobile packs are doing well ... with lots of ball play and change of point of attack ...

Whilst those that can not see a game plan .... this is exactly the style that Baz started to innovate in 2015 ..... and he is well on the mark ...

It is still being effective .... but for some reason our transition off the metres gained ... to the backline is ineffective .... whether this is a style that some of our players are just not good at or into I don't know ..... I do know that there is a style .... there is a plan .... and when it works we have been dominant ....

It looked a whole lot better last year when we had Siro and Frank as our 2nd rowers ..... there main job was to maintain shape and structure, (as opposed to impressing stats obsessed numbnuts) ...

 

[Ned]

Either, either. Just win games.

 

[Chip and Chase]

This isn't a new phenomenon - been going on for a few seasons now. I'd say we are the most submissive team when it comes to surrendering in the tackle. We rarely fight to be released and that allows opposition to dominate the ruck and slow us down. You look at how many players in other sides really fight the wrestle and stay proactive in the tackle - that brings so many advantages to an attacking team in terms of milking penalties from the morons in pink. How many penalties do we get for leg pulls, second efforts, not releasing, laying in the ruck, straddling the player trying to get to their feet to play the ball, markers not square etc etc ?? I'd say we give up a lot more of those type of ruck penalties than we receive.

If you are submissive then the defence lays on you and peels off in a controlled manner maximising the tackle time to their advantage.If you wrestle and fight the tackle then you make it much more difficult for the defence to control their peel and you stand a much greater chance of pulling a penalty. The refs invariably favour the attacking side in those ruck situations that are ugly and messy - makes sense to turn every tackle into a battle for domination. Greg Inglis hasn't played a ball on the mark his whole career and never gets called back for it. Slater kicks and writhes and gets "tangled" up with tacklers every time and generally gets rewarded. Don't get me started on the speed of our play the ball once we are clear of the tackle - we have a couple of players that are snail like. I'm not sure if this poor coaching, poor attitude or poor fitness/strength - but every tackle should be a street fight and a scrappy mess. The morons in pink have shown season after season they can be milked till the cows come home on this, so we need to exploit it.

 

[pjayz]

Yep .... many things changed this year .... it is no fluke that the teams with the mobile packs are doing well ... with lots of ball play and change of point of attack ...

Whilst those that can not see a game plan .... this is exactly the style that Baz started to innovate in 2015 ..... and he is well on the mark ...

It is still being effective .... but for some reason our transition off the metres gained ... to the backline is ineffective .... whether this is a style that some of our players are just not good at or into I don't know ..... I do know that there is a style .... there is a plan .... and when it works we have been dominant ....

It looked a whole lot better last year when we had Siro and Frank as our 2nd rowers ..... there main job was to maintain shape and structure, (as opposed to impressing stats obsessed numbnuts) ...

To acquire 'numb nuts', one must expose said nuts to an environment of 5 degrees or less. Should the temperature drop below 0, 'numb nuts' transition to 'blue balls', at -10, 'blue balls' will eventually drop off leaving one totally emasculated (so I've heard). Since your assertion is that the 85% of male posters on here have attained 'numb nut' status, either we have a lot of fans in Canberra, or there is an ice cube fetish sweeping through the Manly area.

 

[Woodsie]

To acquire 'numb nuts', one must expose said nuts to an environment of 5 degrees or less. Should the temperature drop below 0, 'numb nuts' transition to 'blue balls', at -10, 'blue balls' will eventually drop off leaving one totally emasculated (so I've heard). Since your assertion is that the 85% of male posters on here have attained 'numb nut' status, either we have a lot of fans in Canberra, or there is an ice cube fetish sweeping through the Manly area.

True, true .... you raise a very good point. For every Einstein there are hundreds of Desreturnoftheking's ..... I should be kinder to our climatically challenged ..... I will try to be more understanding ....

 

[globaleagle]

1) I thought 'blue balls' meant you hadn't had sex in ages?

2) I can't believe this is my contribution.

 

[Woodsie]

1) I thought 'blue balls' meant you hadn't had sex in ages?

2) I can't believe this is my contribution.

I can .... it is what I live for .......