Zorba's agenda

[Woodsie]

C'mon now Woodsie... It's not all that hard to understand. Even for you.... 🙂

I know you have the pro Baz agenda going but a coach having runs on the board demands differently to one that doesn't.
In this case that would mean Baz having zero understanding of what a coaching team should look like vs Des who has runs on the board and does. If, like you preach, Baz was understaffed, it was his own doing.

Des has earned the right to request additional staff. Des has won premierships. Been in multiple finals series.

Take Madge for example, he had demands for coaching staff (when he almost came to Manly) because he's a proven performer.

Baz on the other hand, was quite happy with what he had. He was excited to coach. He didn't demand squat, probably because he had no idea ... but even if he did, he doesn't have the runs on the board to demand anything at all... Infact his coaching record previous to Manly was quite a sad one.

It was only once he showed that coaching was beyond him that he went to the media complaining about chairs and a lack of staff.

PS - do all sailors have hairy testicles? You sound quite knowledgeable on the matter.

Well bugger me ..... what an intelligent fella you are .. poor dumb me thought it was both in the interests of, and an obligation of, an owner to fully resource the team to the best of his ability at all times, regardless of who the coach was .... I would have thought that the fans would demand it ...

But thank you .... you have taught me that you do not expect the owner to give the team the resources it needs .... unless you like the coach .... it all makes sense now .....

 

[Woodsie]

No what i am saying is that people in charge are less likely going to outlay more funds on someone they are not confident in or hasn't better represented a case to convince the owners it is going to significantly improve the situation/performance.

Barrett was signed on because he was seen as a Coach with potential, a cheaper alternative to an established option and more in line with the financial resources the club could afford (staying within our budget.)

The hope was as Barrett improved so would the performances along with improved crowds, sponsorship, membership etc which in turn hopefully would lead to a better financial position to outlay more in the future---at best we stagnated.

The same scenario was the case when Manly signed on Hasler (Manly was an opportunity club at the bottom, Hasler was a cheap option)---as the years went by the owners could see Hasler's potential was being realized and there was more confidence to outlay more.

Eventually though Hasler's requirements were probably way over what Manly could afford---this is one of the main reasons we couldn't retain or really wanted to retain Hasler because it got to the point where there was diminishing returns and going backwards keeping up with Dessies requests.

I'm not totally in disagreement with your point of view---really the end goal for any business is to make money/remain viable---no point winning comps/performing well if the returns are not worth it.

In the business world there are risky business models such as, invest big, except the losses to gain traction in the market or large market share, in the hope of either future returns or having some kind of monopoly that can be leveraged as a good reason to sell---even if the company is not making money. You don't have that luxury in the business of owning a sporting team.

I think the Penn's were trying hard to stay within budget in not trying to retain Hasler originally, trying to stay within budget signing on Barrett and also eventually/maybe even suddenly not convinced increasing the funds under Barrett's coaching would make much difference.

Now Manly are in the stage of probably bleeding money again, with Hasler on less than he was at the Dogs, in the hope of good returns within 3yrs---if not Manly are in big trouble.

Manly need to get the front office in order and new stadium built to show progress from the stagnant 1990's feel of the club to look like a professional modern club with a future.

That is a more balanced and rational statement than your first ..... any discretion in the amount of spending by the owner should be on additional or extra resources above those considered to be Industry best practise .... and not basics withheld because of who the coach is ....

As an aside, I hear this comment about being cash strapped, and what we can afford ...... I have no idea how much coin Penn has ... therefore I don't know whether he is just a cheap baarstad or a fantastic bloke going without meals to put every cent he has into the club ......

 

[manly al]

Certainly some interesting and even creditable conjecture on the reasons for the additional staffing personal or levels since Des has come on board but even then in a general sense , it is probably mainly just at the margins in terms of staff personal requirements in some additional areas . Of course , great to have Crusher , Balin and Monas and Donny back but in Donny and Ballin :s instance ,doubt that they would be on any large scale increased pay grade compared with their predecessors and the head shrink and a couple of other appointments , probably just at the margins again . Again one of the the principal reasons is more then likely the additional 4 mill. club allocation funds that has apparently been distributed from the mid year point in 2018 . Also all of the discussion mainly centered around staffing levels again just seems to divert proper attention away from the real crux of the matter in Trent "s clear inadequacies on a regular basis in his coaching practices in 2018 . Then his weakly chosen tactic to blame and attribute the supposed lack of resources as a key reason for many of the team "s lackluster results in 2018 [ but in actual fact again , his below par coaching input as the principal factor and again not to mention the disruptive effect of his mid season resignation ] Would be interesting to know of the club staffing levels when Des and Tooves were in charge in the predominately success outcome seasons from around 2005 to 2015 or so .

 

[Woodsie]

I'm just saying that different coaches have different requests for staff. Des, Madge, Baz...

No you weren't .... you were saying that Barrett didn't get the staff he wantd because he hadn't earnt them ..... plese don't change your story ....

 

[Woodsie]

(insert witty sailors testicles comment here) Not sure how you gather that, I don't expect the owner to do anything at all.

Well you must be a very forgiving fan ..... I expect a great deal from the owner ..... perhaps you lack imagination ....

 

[Woodsie]

He only complained about it when it the pressure started mounting and then became an excuse ... which he then chose to feed to the media.

Again you persist with this nonsense ....... after taking a team that was widely tipped to come bottom 4, to the finals in 6th , Bozo. and other staff including reruitment officer left .... they were not replaced ....

.. and he didn't chose to feed it to the media ... he resigned quitely and nobody knew anything until months later when Zorba, then Gorman and then Penn all went to the media first ....

but if it makes you feel better, keep hating and keep feeding yourself nonsense ...

 

[Harvies elbow]

Wouldn't matter what resources he had, the jub can't coach...

 

[Technical Coach]

That is a more balanced and rational statement than your first ..... any discretion in the amount of spending by the owner should be on additional or extra resources above those considered to be Industry best practise .... and not basics withheld because of who the coach is ....

As an aside, I hear this comment about being cash strapped, and what we can afford ...... I have no idea how much coin Penn has ... therefore I don't know whether he is just a cheap baarstad or a fantastic bloke going without meals to put every cent he has into the club ......

I would say Penn is not as wealthy as people here make him out to be, take it this way not the kind of wealth that is a mover and shaker in Sydney.

People with big financial resources have more influence over the decision makers in politics, Manly would have a stadium by now if Penn had that kind of financial clout.

If Manly can come through this stage with a professional looking organization there will be some good returns---professional sport in Australia is still very young and in the learning stages of making it profitable.

I recall a report commissioned in the 90's that showed the Manly supporter base had the best yields in the NRL---this is one area that can really be worked/exploited with a more professional organization and better home ground facilities.

Also unlike most clubs where they are basically representative of the average supporter/person, clubs like Manly and the Roosters can differentiate themselves from the market accommodating more of the aspiring, successful(well that is all relative lol), intelligent types---sometimes it is better to have a smaller market share but really know your supporter base, than just having large numbers and making up the numbers.

 

[Woodsie]

I'd say the owner has enough on his plate than to offer more staff to a coach then what was agreed upon when they signed his contract.

How do you keep just making this shiite up .......