A little bit of perspective

[Karshy]

Like everyone else around here, it's a sad time for me watching the team go out and get outclassed in what feels like every game at present. That said, I would love to offer a little bit of perspective and optimism.

When the draw was announced for 2021 I felt that the first 4 rounds were going to be a rough ride: Three top 4 sides and a road trip to a ground the side hasnt won at in 18 years. To add insult to injury we have lost 3 backrowers to injury making our edges extremely flimsy and our fullback which is who is worth +10 points in attack and defence, Meanwhile our first choice hooker remains suspended under a no fault stand down policy which obviously applies some level of fault by the sheer nature that it stands down somebody.

While I love Des Hasler, and adamantly believe he has credits in the bank from what he did for the club between 04 and 11. I feel like he is currently spending those credits as he has made some mistakes in strategy, recruitment and selections over the off season and to start the year. In terms of defensive strategy it looks like the team has tried to shift from an up and in model to a slide model. Either the team has not adopted well to the strategy or the strategy has been severely impacted by the injuries to our backrow stocks. In terms of recruitment, Des and his team have failed to recruit a back up fullback, a readily available hooker and a little bit of depth for the backrow having lost Thompson, Waddell, Williams and sadly, Keith Titmuss. Regarding selections, the biggest glaring error is Croker being repeatedly selected over Cust. The other questionable selection to me is Garrick, who has looked out of place on the left wing and doesnt even look to compete for bombs now (see Lomax try yesterday).

However, I feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel and its not far away. I still think the side can make the top 8 based on the draw alone but some things need to go right. I.e. no more injuries to Tommy or our backrowers. Lawton to come in mid season and be as good as he was for the Warriors before his injury. Des start getting the selections right or the players start to pay back his loyalty with good performances.

In Round 5 Trbo Tom is back, Olakau'atu may be back too. The return of Trbo will move Walker back to centre. This plus the inclusion of Olakauatu, will make our edges stronger, our defence becomes more organised and our attack becomes much more dangerous with multiple threats accross the park. This only gets better as in Round 7 we should see Siro return and rounds 10-11 we will have Karl Lawton, an actual hooker, come into the side. In our final 21 games we only play the top top sides 5 times. From Rounds 5-10 we play: Warriors, Titans, Tigers, Penrith, Warriors and Broncos. At full strength I feel like we could potentially win 5 of these, with the Panthers game a bit of an outlier.

While it is hard right now, I encourage everyone to hang in there for just the little bit longer. Go Manly!

 

[Ryan]

Like everyone else around here, it's a sad time for me watching the team go out and get outclassed in what feels like every game at present. That said, I would love to offer a little bit of perspective and optimism.

When the draw was announced for 2021 I felt that the first 4 rounds were going to be a rough ride: Three top 4 sides and a road trip to a ground the side hasnt won at in 18 years. To add insult to injury we have lost 3 backrowers to injury making our edges extremely flimsy and our fullback which is who is worth +10 points in attack and defence, Meanwhile our first choice hooker remains suspended under a no fault stand down policy which obviously applies some level of fault by the sheer nature that it stands down somebody.

While I love Des Hasler, and adamantly believe he has credits in the bank from what he did for the club between 04 and 11. I feel like he is currently spending those credits as he has made some mistakes in strategy, recruitment and selections over the off season and to start the year. In terms of defensive strategy it looks like the team has tried to shift from an up and in model to a slide model. Either the team has not adopted well to the strategy or the strategy has been severely impacted by the injuries to our backrow stocks. In terms of recruitment, Des and his team have failed to recruit a back up fullback, a readily available hooker and a little bit of depth for the backrow having lost Thompson, Waddell, Williams and sadly, Keith Titmuss. Regarding selections, the biggest glaring error is Croker being repeatedly selected over Cust. The other questionable selection to me is Garrick, who has looked out of place on the left wing and doesnt even look to compete for bombs now (see Lomax try yesterday).

However, I feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel and its not far away. I still think the side can make the top 8 based on the draw alone but some things need to go right. I.e. no more injuries to Tommy or our backrowers. Lawton to come in mid season and be as good as he was for the Warriors before his injury. Des start getting the selections right or the players start to pay back his loyalty with good performances.

In Round 5 Trbo Tom is back, Olakau'atu may be back too. The return of Trbo will move Walker back to centre. This plus the inclusion of Olakauatu, will make our edges stronger, our defence becomes more organised and our attack becomes much more dangerous with multiple threats accross the park. This only gets better as in Round 7 we should see Siro return and rounds 10-11 we will have Karl Lawton, an actual hooker, come into the side. In our final 21 games we only play the top top sides 5 times. From Rounds 5-10 we play: Warriors, Titans, Tigers, Penrith, Warriors and Broncos. At full strength I feel like we could potentially win 5 of these, with the Panthers game a bit of an outlier.

While it is hard right now, I encourage everyone to hang in there for just the little bit longer. Go Manly!

You're forgetting a few things.

We've now lost 13 of 14 games (including a trial) - one win last year was against a battling Bulldogs.

In that span, we've had the second worst defensive record in the history of the game (over half a season). The Western Suburbs Magpies 1999 the only team worse.

We just had the worst ever first round defeat in our clubs history, and in the third round, equaled our worst ever defeat against The Dragons.

We are on track to record the clubs worst ever losing streak in our history.

The players and Des have both said the results, records and numbers during this period mean nothing to them.

This is on top of dealing with players (Fainu) who have serious charges over their heads getting extended, another player about to face charges for assault in Walker. Add to that letting go of players like AFB, and Thompson & getting no proper compensation. Apparently Wanting Taupau to leave. Being lied to by the player and club about a race on the corso.

Then you go to actual football matters. Walker habitually being selected at fullback. Overlooking Harper. Continually picking Suli, Parker, Croker (when there ARE better options)

Recruitment that doesn't attain a qualified fullback. Signing a player who won't be available due to injury for 1/2 a season. They are out of touch the recruitment team as much as Des is.

There isn't a win in sight for this team. Not with their attitude, culture and coach, who frankly looks like he doesn't give a **** anymore, the many records currently being broken as proof.

Sorry mate, but that's the perspective I see right now.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Like everyone else around here, it's a sad time for me watching the team go out and get outclassed in what feels like every game at present. That said, I would love to offer a little bit of perspective and optimism.

When the draw was announced for 2021 I felt that the first 4 rounds were going to be a rough ride: Three top 4 sides and a road trip to a ground the side hasnt won at in 18 years. To add insult to injury we have lost 3 backrowers to injury making our edges extremely flimsy and our fullback which is who is worth +10 points in attack and defence, Meanwhile our first choice hooker remains suspended under a no fault stand down policy which obviously applies some level of fault by the sheer nature that it stands down somebody.

While I love Des Hasler, and adamantly believe he has credits in the bank from what he did for the club between 04 and 11. I feel like he is currently spending those credits as he has made some mistakes in strategy, recruitment and selections over the off season and to start the year. In terms of defensive strategy it looks like the team has tried to shift from an up and in model to a slide model. Either the team has not adopted well to the strategy or the strategy has been severely impacted by the injuries to our backrow stocks. In terms of recruitment, Des and his team have failed to recruit a back up fullback, a readily available hooker and a little bit of depth for the backrow having lost Thompson, Waddell, Williams and sadly, Keith Titmuss. Regarding selections, the biggest glaring error is Croker being repeatedly selected over Cust. The other questionable selection to me is Garrick, who has looked out of place on the left wing and doesnt even look to compete for bombs now (see Lomax try yesterday).

However, I feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel and its not far away. I still think the side can make the top 8 based on the draw alone but some things need to go right. I.e. no more injuries to Tommy or our backrowers. Lawton to come in mid season and be as good as he was for the Warriors before his injury. Des start getting the selections right or the players start to pay back his loyalty with good performances.

In Round 5 Trbo Tom is back, Olakau'atu may be back too. The return of Trbo will move Walker back to centre. This plus the inclusion of Olakauatu, will make our edges stronger, our defence becomes more organised and our attack becomes much more dangerous with multiple threats accross the park. This only gets better as in Round 7 we should see Siro return and rounds 10-11 we will have Karl Lawton, an actual hooker, come into the side. In our final 21 games we only play the top top sides 5 times. From Rounds 5-10 we play: Warriors, Titans, Tigers, Penrith, Warriors and Broncos. At full strength I feel like we could potentially win 5 of these, with the Panthers game a bit of an outlier.

While it is hard right now, I encourage everyone to hang in there for just the little bit longer. Go Manly!

That’s some good points.

And I agree with you for the first four rounds.

But as Ryan says it’s deeper than that , 14 games , 13 losses.

Tissue Tommy will stem a few points when he returns ( maybe round 8) for the two games he plays until he’s out for the rest of the year.

A decent hooker would help but neither covers for the fact that a fair majority of the current team are really only fringe first graders.

And our big $$$ players are very badly out of form.

This is a crises , and I’m not sure giving it time will fix the issues.

 

[tookey]

The whole backline with the exception of Saab (who I will give the benefit of the doubt to) is reserve grade standard and need to go

 

[sheridanstand78]

I think the defeat yesterday is hard to take as if you look at the match stats, we ran more metres, matched them in line breaks and the key difference was our squandering the ball, allowing them off the hook time and time again. They had belief and energy. We had no faith or confidence. All the good work from Schuster, Keppie, Paseka and co undone by our ineptness with the ball and allowing tries directly from turnovers.

 

[Franko]

The whole backline with the exception of Saab (who I will give the benefit of the doubt to) is reserve grade standard and need to go

Agree we have the worst in the comp

 

[frank stokes]

I think the defeat yesterday is hard to take as if you look at the match stats, we ran more metres, matched them in line breaks and the key difference was our squandering the ball, allowing them off the hook time and time again. They had belief and energy. We had no faith or confidence. All the good work from Schuster, Keppie, Paseka and co undone by our ineptness with the ball and allowing tries directly from turnovers.

We may have 'matched line breaks' but ours came at the edges and ended with us being squeezed to the sidelines by the FB and chasers whilst theirs came straight through the middle and ended in tries to supporting players...

...watching at ground level gave me a new appreciation for how poor our defence is, how lackluster our attack is and how our second efforts and support play is non existent...

...we are in deep sh*t that is not gonna be fixed by 1 player or a few positional changes... it all starts with attitude and effort...

 

[The Who]

All teams have injuries.
Melbourne and The 'Riff had key playmakers out but both teams still managed to make the spectacle a cracker with all players displaying passion and a willingness to tackle till they drop.
We haven't had such commitment since the early 2020 match with Canberra, and possibly once later in the season with the win over Doesn'tmatta at Brookie.
Most of our players are not prepared to work hard for their teammates.
Why are Melbourne always so hard to beat, regardless of their roster? It has to be coach Bellyache instilling in them a belief that DESpicable is unable to engender in our mob.

 

[Karshy]

"The players and Des have both said the results, records and numbers during this period mean nothing to them." Where and when was this said? I have not seen any member of the playing or coaching staff come out and say any of this.

Also I have not forgotten the 13 losses in 14 games. I have watched every one of those games and attended several of them. I believe there are causes for our problems which go beyond the rubbish "Des is outdated now" line:

• Manase Fainu stand down policy. Des decided that, based on form, Fainu was the best long term choice in the role for the team, and proceeded to release Api to allow his progression. How could he possibly have known the Manase would end up getting charged for allegedly stabbing someone at a church event?
• Turbo Tom injury crisis. Every man and his dog in the media threw their opinion in that Manly should move heaven and earth to ensure they resign Tom and Jake. Noone could have predicted 3 consecutive seasons highlighted by ongoing hamstring injuries.
• Incredible rate of injuries. It is probably easier to talk about the players who havent missed games to injury in the last 12 months. DCE, Parker and Jrbo. At one stage last year the side had that many players missing it looked like a reserve grade side, yet still competed in many close games (1 loss by 4 points, 3 losses by 2 points)
• DCE not living up to his pay grade. If you are paying someone at the level of DCE, you would expect them to close out the close games, which he hasnt been doing in the last 12 months.

Perhaps you can tell me how a different coach could have done better with the above situation in 2020? Or which players he should have recruited for 2021 based on the above situation? Personally I think he should have got Peats and Aekins. I dont agree with the 'Morgan Harper at fullback is the answer' rhetoric. I saw him play the trial vs the Tigers and he was average at best.

People have short memories, but in 2019, Des had the squad 10 minutes away from a prelim final without Trbo. Our best result since 2014. In 2020, Up until the Canberra game, many considered Manly a contender. I have said on these forums previously that under Des, the side has beaten Melbourne, Roosters, Rabbitohs, Canberra and Parramatta in the previous 2 years (all considered the current heavyweights of the competition). Not to mention Des brought Manly from the cellar to 2 premierships between 04 and 11. So I think he deserves a little more patience and a little less short sightedness based on what he has delivered to this club in the past.

With the current rules as they stand, I agree the squad needs to be revitalised. It is interesting to note the players off contract this year:

• Morgan Boyle
• Lachlan Croker
• Tevita Funa
• Reuben Garrick
• Jack Gosiewski
• Brad Parker
• Toff Sipley
• Curtis Sironen
• Jorge Taufua
• Dylan Walker

I hope the clubs lets the majority of these go as they have not performed at a great standard, although I think Parker and Garrick would be great depth players and I reserve judgement on Walker until I see him get a consistent run at centre. I hope they manage to pick up Brown and Sua as they would bring much needed aggression and consistency to the forward pack. I would like to see them make a play for Caleb Aekins or Nick Meaney as wingers who can play fullback too. We have some really good juniors coming through also so it would be great to start seeing some of those start to progress up to the top grade.