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rmd said:
As much as I Iove the Beaver, having watched and supported Manly since 1968, Bob Fulton would be my first pick in any team and in the backrow I'd have Reilly, Norton and Lowe/McCabe with Beaver off the bench. He's a brilliant player but in the early ruck I'd still have the others mentioned starting the game.

I mean no disrespect, but to mention Paul McCabe in this company blows my mind. Not saying he was a bad player, and I know he played some rep footy while with us, but I'd put 10 blokes ahead of him. Have you forgotten Daniel Gartner, Ronnie Gibbs, Choc, even the Fat man - blokes who won us competitions. Maybe you saw something I missed.
 
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andyeagle said:
rmd said:
As much as I Iove the Beaver, having watched and supported Manly since 1968, Bob Fulton would be my first pick in any team and in the backrow I'd have Reilly, Norton and Lowe/McCabe with Beaver off the bench. He's a brilliant player but in the early ruck I'd still have the others mentioned starting the game.

I mean no disrespect, but to mention Paul McCabe in this company blows my mind. Not saying he was a bad player, and I know he played some rep footy while with us, but I'd put 10 blokes ahead of him. Have you forgotten Daniel Gartner, Ronnie Gibbs, Choc, even the Fat man - blokes who won us competitions. Maybe you saw something I missed.

Agreed Andy that we tend to forget the stars of the past. But I think Menzies is up there. Highest try scoring forward in history. Such a dominent personality on the field for so long. But I would caveat that Cliffy was also in the best ever Manly side, because they were a double act.

My forward line up as best ever for Manly is;

O'Neill, Krillich, Bull, Randall, Menzies, Reilly.

Backs:

Toovey, C. Lyons, Irvine, J. Lyon, Fulton, B. Stewart, Eadie

Reserves:

Kennedy, Hasler, Watmough, G. Stewart

Been watching the game since 1966. Never saw Bull but understand he was awesome. The rest I've seen to measure up with each other. Brett Stewart on the wing in this team would be scoring as frequently as Irvine did and allows Eadie into the side.


Only regret is that I cant find a spot for Johnnie Gibbs. For two or three seasons he was untouchable and superior to Steve Mortimer, who was around at the same time. Virtually won some games by himself with startling jinking and pace. Barba reminds me a little of him but even Barba isnt as good...yet. But Gibbsy had two flaws. His defence was quite average and his career was cut short just when he was about to reach his peak with international play through bad knees, like Reilly. Big shame. He was very entertaining and for entertainment value in the backs at Manly would come in third behind Fulton and Cliff Lyons.
 
Beaver is the 1st 2nd rower I'd pick. For mine McCabe is way down the list, bottom 30% of forwards I have seen.. Blokes like Bruce walker, jug head and Glenn Ryan are ahead of McCabe.
 
bones said:
To think that all of the highlights on that clip came from a 34 year old forward In the final year of a 15 year NRL career. Amazing. I have never seen a better back rower in all my time watching the game. Should be an immortal IMO but I know it won't happen.

I've said this before but its an absolute disgrace that Beaver didn't make the top 100 in the centenary celebrations.
 
Bearfax said:
andyeagle said:
rmd said:
As much as I Iove the Beaver, having watched and supported Manly since 1968, Bob Fulton would be my first pick in any team and in the backrow I'd have Reilly, Norton and Lowe/McCabe with Beaver off the bench. He's a brilliant player but in the early ruck I'd still have the others mentioned starting the game.

I mean no disrespect, but to mention Paul McCabe in this company blows my mind. Not saying he was a bad player, and I know he played some rep footy while with us, but I'd put 10 blokes ahead of him. Have you forgotten Daniel Gartner, Ronnie Gibbs, Choc, even the Fat man - blokes who won us competitions. Maybe you saw something I missed.

Agreed Andy that we tend to forget the stars of the past. But I think Menzies is up there. Highest try scoring forward in history. Such a dominent personality on the field for so long. But I would caveat that Cliffy was also in the best ever Manly side, because they were a double act.

My forward line up as best ever for Manly is;

O'Neill, Krillich, Bull, Randall, Menzies, Reilly.

Backs:

Toovey, C. Lyons, Irvine, J. Lyon, Fulton, B. Stewart, Eadie

Reserves:

Kennedy, Hasler, Watmough, G. Stewart

Been watching the game since 1966. Never saw Bull but understand he was awesome. The rest I've seen to measure up with each other. Brett Stewart on the wing in this team would be scoring as frequently as Irvine did and allows Eadie into the side.


Only regret is that I cant find a spot for Johnnie Gibbs. For two or three seasons he was untouchable and superior to Steve Mortimer, who was around at the same time. Virtually won some games by himself with startling jinking and pace. Barba reminds me a little of him but even Barba isnt as good...yet. But Gibbsy had two flaws. His defence was quite average and his career was cut short just when he was about to reach his peak with international play through bad knees, like Reilly. Big shame. He was very entertaining and for entertainment value in the backs at Manly would come in third behind Fulton and Cliff Lyons.


I don't mind that lineup, and I also agree with you about Gibbs. My memory though is that he was an excellent cover defender. In fact I'm pretty sure he badly injured his hamstring making a try-saving covering tackle (in a semi v Eels?) It was that injury, and scarring that resulted, that really curtailed his career.


Masked Eagle said:
I've said this before but its an absolute disgrace that Beaver didn't make the top 100 in the centenary celebrations.
Agreed. The people who decided to name a grandstand 'The Fulton-Menzies Stand' know a lot more about the game than the people who chose that so-called 'top 100'.
 
The fact that Menzies is still going strong at 39 shows what a champion player he is and was with Manly. Have no doubt he could still be useful off the bench for Manly, especially as he could handle centre with ease. The NRL should have kept him in the game due to his popularity with fans and as an example for all other footballers.
On Johnny Gibbs, I agree with how brilliant he was. It was a shame such a crowd pleaser succumbed to injury; he won many matches single handedly for Manly and certainly was up there with the Mortimers and Sterlings of his era.
 
Shoe1 said:
Beaver is the 1st 2nd rower I'd pick. For mine McCabe is way down the list, bottom 30% of forwards I have seen.. Blokes like Bruce walker, jug head and Glenn Ryan are ahead of McCabe.

Bruce Walker maybe......But Glenn Ryan and John Jones better than McCabe? No way.

.
 
bones said:
Shoe1 said:
Beaver is the 1st 2nd rower I'd pick. For mine McCabe is way down the list, bottom 30% of forwards I have seen.. Blokes like Bruce walker, jug head and Glenn Ryan are ahead of McCabe.

Bruce Walker maybe......But Glenn Ryan and John Jones better than McCabe? No way.

.
I would choose them ahead of McCabe - they played many more games and were more reliable. I recall being disappointed by Paul quite often, especially when he played a blinder for Australia against the kiwis, compared to his form for Manly at the time.
 
rmd said:
As much as I Iove the Beaver, having watched and supported Manly since 1968, Bob Fulton would be my first pick in any team and in the backrow I'd have Reilly, Norton and Lowe/McCabe with Beaver off the bench.

I can only assume you have a thing for Pommy backrowers.

As for Paul McCabe, he was a good player, but I'd have Beaver well ahead of him in terms of Manlys best ever.
 
Given that Beaver was at his peak at the time, the back row of Menzies, Gartner and Kosef is still something I reminisce about. I missed the 70s and don't have vivid memories of the 80s but despite some great backrowers in the years since (Watmough, Kennedy, Stewart) I just can't go past these 3 as the best I've seen. Such a shame that Kosef's career was cut short and all 3 of them had their careers run into the NE days.
 
One of Beavers best attributes not mentioned above is his natural instinct and anticipation. The very best defenders know the shortest way around the paddock from A to B and take off a couple of seconds earlier than everyone else. The high angle shots used to demonstrate this beautifully with Beaver when he pulled off a cover tackle.

One of the best examples of this was the day we played the Dragons at Brookie in about 2003 or 04. We led by 2 with a minute to go and had the ball on their line (couldn't lose!). Hoppa went out of dummy half and managed to throw an intercept. The Dragon's player took off down field with the Manly defenders chasing including Hoppa running faster than he'd ever run before (except maybe when he was looking for a pen to sign Will's contract with the Eels). The Dragons player was brought down in our quarter and they quickly spread the ball wide to score a certain try. Beaver managed to get from the ruck on one side of the field and hurl himself into Cooper (I think) on the other sideline as he dived into score. On replay the ball was shown to be knocked lose and the bell went.

When combined with his faultless technique you couldn't get a better more reliable defender. Cliffy will always be my favourite but Beaver sits well at number 2.
 
Bradza said:
One of Beavers best attributes not mentioned above is his natural instinct and anticipation. The very best defenders know the shortest way around the paddock from A to B and take off a couple of seconds earlier than everyone else. The high angle shots used to demonstrate this beautifully with Beaver when he pulled off a cover tackle.

One of the best examples of this was the day we played the Dragons at Brookie in about 2003 or 04. We led by 2 with a minute to go and had the ball on their line (couldn't lose!). Hoppa went out of dummy half and managed to throw an intercept. The Dragon's player took off down field with the Manly defenders chasing including Hoppa running faster than he'd ever run before (except maybe when he was looking for a pen to sign Will's contract with the Eels). The Dragons player was brought down in our quarter and they quickly spread the ball wide to score a certain try. Beaver managed to get from the ruck on one side of the field and hurl himself into Cooper (I think) on the other sideline as he dived into score. On replay the ball was shown to be knocked lose and the bell went.

When combined with his faultless technique you couldn't get a better more reliable defender. Cliffy will always be my favourite but Beaver sits well at number 2.
Here it is:
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Wow. Just loved the Beaver clip. And yes, we miss him. He was/is the best second rower we have produced, and possibly the best ever Australian (I didn't see Raper in his prime, but I rate him better than Ron Coote). His defence was almost the equal of his attack, so I'd love to see a compilation video of his tackling.
I've seen them all since around 1960, and Beaver was the best all round second rower/lock. Other who came close were Reilly, Walker, Gartner, Koseph, Kennedy, Martin, Lowe, Ron Gibbs (I'm sure I've missed some) but none had the all-round skills of Beaver.
 
Watching that highlights video and reading this thread, I still think he's underrated - even among die-hard Manly fans like us. He's my all-time favourite player, Manly or otherwise, and even when people recognise how great he is/was, I still get a sense they don't realise just how incredibly great a player Beaver has been. Something about the bloke - his natural humility, probably - makes people downplay his achievements.
First up, he's the greatest try-scoring forward in the history of the game. Period. Second, his longevity is flat-out remarkable. Except for that one mysterious side strain that kept him out for a few weeks, he's never been injured. Third, he could tackle anyone or anything - head on, in cover, whatever. His defensive technique is second to none. Fourth, he could cover centre (which he did well even at Origin level) and five-eighth. Plus, he made headgear awesome for a whole generation and he has the coolest nickname ever: everybody loves Beaver.
I loved watching Graham Eadie when I was a kid. I loved Ron Gibbs, Cliffy, Tooves and even David "The Mule" Hoskings. I love Brett Stewart and Keiran Foran and anyone else who plays for Manly Warringah with pride. But I'll always love Beaver best of all.
 
Beaver... A piece of armor attached to a helmet or breastplate to protect the mouth and chin.
The visor on a helmet.

Beavers headgear would have looked great with a visor and a big spike on top would have been handy when tackling. I suppose the only downside would be players from opposing sides would be almost guaranteed to run quicker when being chased from behind.... starting to enter John Hopoate territory now and I don't really want to go there.....
 
He still scored around 80 tries post Cliffy, and many of them in a team that was nowhere near the top 8 for 5 years.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
3 3 0 48 6
4 3 1 28 6
3 2 1 10 6
4 2 2 39 4
3 2 1 28 4
3 2 1 15 4
3 2 1 14 4
2 1 1 13 4
2 1 1 6 4
3 2 1 -3 4
3 1 2 0 2
3 1 2 -5 2
3 1 2 -15 2
3 1 2 -22 2
3 1 2 -36 2
2 0 2 -56 2
3 0 3 -64 0
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