Booing Adam Goodes

[davidmanly]

No. Calling someone a wanxxx is not insulting their racial back ground.

Fair point. I was trying to say, we all know why Gallen gets booed. Imagine if he wasn't white, we would be having the same argument. It's a shame sport is involved.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Davidmanly it's good that sport is involved, because it is only thanks to his high sporting profile that Goodes is in a position to put our racism to the forefront of this country's political debate.

Many of us (including me) love to follow sport because it is a fantastic escape from real world cares. But we still have real lives, as do the players and sportspeople.

And although we may resent being reminded of it, we can't help being touched when a player suffers catastrophic injury, or death, or when players are caught up in drug scandals, domestic violence and other mundane real world dramas.

Gallen getting booed is just about footy. This on the other hand is about our real lives. So let's thank Goodes for taking the flak, and use the opportunity he has given us to think about where we are as a country, and why we accept and condone such poor conditions for so many indigenous Australians.


.

 

[mozgrame]

Fair point. I was trying to say, we all know why Gallen gets booed. Imagine if he wasn't white, we would be having the same argument. It's a shame sport is involved.

Sport is not immune to racism. It is however a tremendous platform to speak from if you want the attention of pretty much all Australians, and that is exactly what we need. For Goodes, as a very high profile sportsman to take a stand against racism is fantastic. There are so many underprivileged Aboriginal citizens of this country that will never be heard, because they don't have the national platform that Goodes has. He is a role model for all Australians, and we need to hear what he is saying.

As for sport and racism..

In his book ‘Obstacle Sport’, Colin Tatz said: “Sport is not divorced from life, from the civic
culture of a society, from its institutions and processes, its economic, legal and educational
systems, its national policies and foreign relations”.
Hopefully by tackling prejudice and bigotry in sport, the effects will ripple through all other
aspects of society and that racism, xenophobia and intolerance will be dealt a red card for
good.


https://www.humanrights.gov.au/site...mination/whats_the_score/pdf/introduction.pdf

 

[davidmanly]

Davidmanly it's good that sport is involved, because it is only thanks to his high sporting profile that Goodes is in a position to put our racism to the forefront of this country's political debate.

Many of us (including me) love to follow sport because it is a fantastic escape from real world cares. But we still have real lives, as do the players and sportspeople.

And although we may resent being reminded of it, we can't help being touched when a player suffers catastrophic injury, or death, or when players are caught up in drug scandals, domestic violence and other mundane real world dramas.

Gallen getting booed is just about footy. This on the other hand is about our real lives. So let's thank Goodes for taking the flak, and use the opportunity he has given us to think about where we are as a country, and why we accept and condone such poor conditions for so many indigenous Australians.


.

Yer sea eagle, I regret getting involved in this post. Having never watched a AFL game or goodes play I should of stayed out of it.
Last week while having a beer after work this subject did came up. It was interesting that the both AFL supporters that were there stated that Goodes was booed not because of racism but for the same reason Gallen is booed. Are all aboriginals booed in AFL. But that was the opinion of 2 people.
I really hope something good comes out of this mess. It's sad if people are booing Goodes because of the color of his skin.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yer sea eagle, I regret getting involved in this post. Having never watched a AFL game or goodes play I should of stayed out of it

I really hope something good comes out of this mess

Something good has come out of it - many people are talking about this who otherwise wouldn't be, including your mates, and … you got involved in this post!

Some of course take the defensive line expressed by Ripper above, such as 'don't call me a **** racist'. Others, rather than getting stuck on the word racism, will actually seek out some info about how Aboriginal folks in general are currently faring in this great land.

 

[Hamster Huey]

So he has always been treated that way? His whole career?

For a fair chunk, yes. He is a great player and influential leader in his side; that elicites the boos from those looking to put him off his game. He also has the knack for falling to the ground easily, for a big man; the gets the mob filthy at what they perceive as 'weak' and 'unsportsmanlike'.

He has always been boo'ed and it's only since the Collingwood match when he pointed out a girl for calling him 'ape' that the media have focussed on it. The rush to then condemn all boo'ers as 'racist' has lit the flame on this matter, and Goodes passionate war dance was a further provocation.

There are simply no winners out of this. The media tell us to counter decades of passion and ceasing boo'ing, but is that only for Goodes? The crowd mob-mentality is now fever-pitched with accusations of them now being 'racist' driving them to refuse to be shouted down, and instead hold their ground.

The media missed the opportunity to provide a genuine balance to the issue and potentially get both sides recognising that cooler heads should prevail.

 

[Hamster Huey]

No. Calling someone a wanxxx is not insulting their racial back ground.

But boo'ing is???

 

[Chip and Chase]

I'm positive that 90% of the muppets that go to an AFL match and boo Goodes have absolutely no idea why they are booing him. I doubt it is a conscious racially motivated action on their part, it's just mob mentality, and they know it gets under his skin and can put hum off his game.

Where the problem lays is in what Goodes himself thinks about it ..... he obviously believes it is racially motivated and that makes it an issue requiring action. I think the AFL community as a whole (at all levels) have rallied behind him and done the subject to death over the last 2 weeks, and rightly so. I'll be very surprised if he gets booed next game because basically that action now links you with a racist intent and no reasonable human wants to be tarred with that brush.

 

[Hamster Huey]

I'm positive that 90% of the muppets that go to an AFL match and boo Goodes have absolutely no idea why they are booing him. I doubt it is a conscious racially motivated action on their part, it's just mob mentality, and they know it gets under his skin and can put hum off his game.

Where the problem lays is in what Goodes himself thinks about it ..... he obviously believes it is racially motivated and that makes it an issue requiring action. I think the AFL community as a whole (at all levels) have rallied behind him and done the subject to death over the last 2 weeks, and rightly so. I'll be very surprised if he gets booed next game because basically that action now links you with a racist intent and no reasonable human wants to be tarred with that brush.

He will get boo'ed at the next away game, no doubt. People aren't prepared to be silent or cop being called a racist for making some noise. The commentators and opinionators (is that a real word?!?!?) have read this one wrong.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I guess we'll find out this weekend.

 

[mozgrame]

Sure Goodes has always been booed. So have other players. Sure Goodes plays the game to win, even if that means milking and seeming unsportsmanlike or weak...so do many other players. Are the other players booed to the same extent though? Furthermore, if he is truly only booed for the way he plays the game, then he would only be booed for his "unsportsmanlike, weak" plays, not every time he touches the ball. Not every pass, every kick, every goal. That excuse holds no water.

Was Adam wrong to react when that 13 year old girl called him an ape?

He was copping racial slurs before that incident, and it never stopped. Please click the link below, written a good 12 months AFTER the "ape" incident. The ignorant few are the ones that continue to abuse him as if it's ok and guess what...they are the ones he's trying to educate.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-far-we-still-have-to-go-20140825-108500.html

Adam is an articulate, intelligent and well grounded young man. I'm sure he would know the difference between racial abuse and normal football fan boganisms (is that a real word?)

I'm certainly not at the games to hear first hand the things that he is called by bigots, and I don't know him personally. I am happy to take his word on the subject though. Most of the Australian sporting institutions seem to be believing him and supporting him too, as are the rational Australian public. That's good enough for me. They must all have me fooled.

 

[Hamster Huey]

You make the same mistake as the media, to think boo'ing = racism across the board. He has always polarised as a great player in a successful club, prone to unsportsmanlike behaviour. For the vast majority it has nothing to do with his off-field demeanour.

There are a raft of players that have been boo'ed by the masses that aren't indigenous, for the exact reasons that Goodes is/was jeered.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The parliament passing a motion supporting Goodes and decrying racism was the ultimate in lip service and empty gestures.

If they were serious they could just have passed a motion acknowledging that Aboriginal people are still among the most disadvantaged in the State, and that forthwith steps will be taken to correct this unacceptable situation.

Of course, they cannot and would not take those steps. Hence they did not make such a statement. But if they had, it would have immediately helped many people to a better understanding of the real issue of racism as it exists here and now.

Instead, an empty gesture, merely paying lip service to racial equality.

 

[mozgrame]

You make the same mistake as the media, to think boo'ing = racism across the board. He has always polarised as a great player in a successful club, prone to unsportsmanlike behaviour. For the vast majority it has nothing to do with his off-field demeanour.

There are a raft of players that have been boo'ed by the masses that aren't indigenous, for the exact reasons that Goodes is/was jeered.

No I don't make that mistake at all, as I pointed out in my post on page 1. I don't believe booing = racism across the board, and I never said that. Are you saying that there are a raft of players in the AFL that are booed by the masses in exact equal amounts as Goodes....week in, week out? What are your thoughts on the racial slurs he cops on a regular basis? Should he just suck it up and accept that as being part and parcel of being a player? That is the real issue. You seem to be very concerned about the booing, and missing the point Goodes is trying to get across about the problems Aboriginals face daily in this country.

 

[Jase Seaeagle]

So it's Racist when DCE Got Booed at Suncorp and at the Gold Coast. I think Not. Eat some Concrete and Harden up

 

[mozgrame]

On a deeper note...what do you guys think is the real cause of racism? Ignorance and fear would be high on the list, probably at spots 1 and 2, but what causes the intense hatred that some people feel for people of different races? Do they judge everyone of a particular race by the deeds of a few?

I'd like to share a story with you. Its a true story of massacre, by both Aboriginal and whites. Tragedy, resilience, forgiveness and ultimately self destruction as an amazing man threw himself into death.....broken.

This is the story of a man I'm proud to call a relative of mine, Thomas Wentworth Wills. Tommy, (1835 - 1880). "The Grace of Australia" as he was called.

I'll provide links to tell the story as room on here is an issue. In a nutshell, Tommy was a very good cricketer, rugby player and a founding father of Australian Rules Football.

The massacre(s)
http://www.mcnamarafamily.id.au/album/nogoa_massacre.html

A brief biography....
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/wills-thomas-wentworth-4863

If there was ever a man that could have felt justified to live in permanent hatred for a race of people, surely it was Tommy. He didn't though. In 1861 he found his Father and 18 other men, women and small children slaughtered by Aborigines. In 1868, after returning to Melbourne, he coached and trained the Lake Wallace Aboriginal side that toured England.

A man deeply tortured by memories of his past, but not hatred for the future direction of our Country.

 

[Hamster Huey]

No I don't make that mistake at all, as I pointed out in my post on page 1. I don't believe booing = racism across the board, and I never said that. Are you saying that there are a raft of players in the AFL that are booed by the masses in exact equal amounts as Goodes....week in, week out? What are your thoughts on the racial slurs he cops on a regular basis? Should he just suck it up and accept that as being part and parcel of being a player? That is the real issue. You seem to be very concerned about the booing, and missing the point Goodes is trying to get across about the problems Aboriginals face daily in this country.

I have no time for actual racist taunts, in any environment.

The issue is that in isolating a fan as 'the face of racism', the media gave themselves a licence to now connect widespread boo'ing with racism. This ignores the vast amount of boo'ing Goodes received for many years prior.

The matter then developed into a tit-for-tat between Goodes and the fans. The more Goodes goaded the crowd, the more they boo'ed, and the more Goodes responded.

Instead of a deeper, realistic reflection of the matter, all we've been forced to read via the media is that 'poor' Goodes should never be boo'ed because it's racist. To label the vast majority of fans that boo'ed him because of his on-field behaviour racists, did NOTHING to improve the situation.

Goodes had his Australian of the Year status and years of work with indigenous people to assist him lift the lot of this largely disadvantaged group. But I believe he fell into the same trap as many in concentrating on the past, and failing to help lay a path forward. The population is well aware of what was bad about Australia in the past, but to wrap that albatross over our necks in the present day is to avoid the hard questions.

That this element has entered the debate on Goodes' reception on a football field, is both a failure of Goodes to accept what the real source of boo'ing was, and the media/commentators clumsily trying to look like they're progressive on race matters, without a thought to what is at play here.

I respect Goode's role within the indigenous community and the efforts he has made to use his position to help improve their lot. But even Blind Freddy can see that it will take positive talk to get the wheels in motion to improve indigenous conditions, not talk of victimhood and blaming. That's been in play for decades and we're seeing no real improvement in this part of society.

Let me leave you with two things to consider.

Firstly, equality. People need to accept that this is impossible. We can enshrine by law all the equality we want, but every person, every group is different and has a slightly differing view on what they think is 'equal'. We can throw money and resources at a group of disadvantaged people, but by denying other disadvantaged groups the same, we are already veering away from 'equal'. There is no end-game regarding the process of equality as each group and/or individual sees another given support to be equal, and wonders why they can't also be treated equal, despite having potentially harder conditions to face.

"A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." - Milton Friedman​

Already this episode has impacted on peoples' freedoms. They are already being shamed and cast as racist if they boo Goodes at a football match again. And to make the point, the AFL are going to point cameras into the crowds to isolate anybody this weekend prepared to step outside the new 'bounds of decency' and dare step out of line. Do you think that this is acceptable?

Next, consider this blog from Dallas Scott who can see how the Goodes debade actually divides us further, than leads to any sense of equality/reconcilliation moving forward.

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html

 

[Hamster Huey]

On a deeper note...what do you guys think is the real cause of racism? Ignorance and fear would be high on the list, probably at spots 1 and 2, but what causes the intense hatred that some people feel for people of different races? Do they judge everyone of a particular race by the deeds of a few?

In our past, agreed. But we've moved on a lot, especially over the last few decades. And as adults that have been educated on racism in our past (both country and self), we are seeing kids develop without the same cultural shortfalls that made racism, both intentional and casual, acceptable when we were young.

So the current matters are more lazy name calling, with little deep thinking on the matter. Thankfully there are far more people willing to now stand up to and silence those displaying those attitudes.

Thanks for sharing the story as well. It is important that we continue to remember our past and specific events like this are vital in personalising the matter; a technique that is incredibly efficient in nullifying racist or even just raced-based attitudes.

 

[mozgrame]

I have no time for actual racist taunts, in any environment.

The issue is that in isolating a fan as 'the face of racism', the media gave themselves a licence to now connect widespread boo'ing with racism. This ignores the vast amount of boo'ing Goodes received for many years prior.

The matter then developed into a tit-for-tat between Goodes and the fans. The more Goodes goaded the crowd, the more they boo'ed, and the more Goodes responded.

Instead of a deeper, realistic reflection of the matter, all we've been forced to read via the media is that 'poor' Goodes should never be boo'ed because it's racist. To label the vast majority of fans that boo'ed him because of his on-field behaviour racists, did NOTHING to improve the situation.

Goodes had his Australian of the Year status and years of work with indigenous people to assist him lift the lot of this largely disadvantaged group. But I believe he fell into the same trap as many in concentrating on the past, and failing to help lay a path forward. The population is well aware of what was bad about Australia in the past, but to wrap that albatross over our necks in the present day is to avoid the hard questions.

That this element has entered the debate on Goodes' reception on a football field, is both a failure of Goodes to accept what the real source of boo'ing was, and the media/commentators clumsily trying to look like they're progressive on race matters, without a thought to what is at play here.

I respect Goode's role within the indigenous community and the efforts he has made to use his position to help improve their lot. But even Blind Freddy can see that it will take positive talk to get the wheels in motion to improve indigenous conditions, not talk of victimhood and blaming. That's been in play for decades and we're seeing no real improvement in this part of society.

Let me leave you with two things to consider.

Firstly, equality. People need to accept that this is impossible. We can enshrine by law all the equality we want, but every person, every group is different and has a slightly differing view on what they think is 'equal'. We can throw money and resources at a group of disadvantaged people, but by denying other disadvantaged groups the same, we are already veering away from 'equal'. There is no end-game regarding the process of equality as each group and/or individual sees another given support to be equal, and wonders why they can't also be treated equal, despite having potentially harder conditions to face.

"A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." - Milton Friedman​

Already this episode has impacted on peoples' freedoms. They are already being shamed and cast as racist if they boo Goodes at a football match again. And to make the point, the AFL are going to point cameras into the crowds to isolate anybody this weekend prepared to step outside the new 'bounds of decency' and dare step out of line. Do you think that this is acceptable?

Next, consider this blog from Dallas Scott who can see how the Goodes debade actually divides us further, than leads to any sense of equality/reconcilliation moving forward.

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html

I always value your take on things Ham. It brings balance and considered value to any debate. Thank you also for the link to the black steam train. I found this interesting...

"Some of this comes from the fact we're tired of the theatrics, and how his need for attention will play out for the rest of us, and creep a little into our own lives. For an urban blackfella like me, I hate the fact that all of a sudden my opinion is relevant. I haven’t written a blog post in almost a year, or bothered to watch free to air television in even longer, yet received two messages on my phone today – one from SBS and the other from 2GB, wanting to know what I think about the whole Goodes drama and depending on what I think, whether they want to hear from me. They aren’t the only ones. Friends, acquaintances and even the random guy standing next to me in line at the supermarket suddenly wants to hear what I have to say, but only on this one topic, just for now. The easiest way to get rid of them is to gauge their personal feelings, then just agree with them. If someone is genuinely looking for a discussion, they are easy to tell, but most people just want me to be the token black who validates their own feelings on the matter".

This says to me that Dallas himself feels a little unloved by mainstream Australia. Certainly the media. (Aren't we all) Just to clarify, the booing is of not much concern to me. The lift in intensity of it was an eye opener however.

What irks me is that the emphasis has been taken off the slurs he cops, while everyone debates the reason for the booing. Adam made an example of the girl with the ape comment. The media just ran with it, as they do with all stories that are topical and likely to sell papers. The fact of the matter is that if he wasn't being abused in such a way, he wouldn't have called her out, the media wouldn't have run with the story for self satisfying reasons and the crowds would be booing with a lot less intensity and venom than they are now. This started from racial abuse, not just abuse.

I'm not so sure the attitudes of the young have changed that dramatically in regards to racism. A lot of homes around the country stillfind it OK to use racially descriptive insults (as longas it remains only in the house, amongst the family, you understand). That's where kids are still hearing, and repeating it from. It may take a few more generations of education to really make an impact. Lazy name calling could easily stop at dickh**d, fu**wit, wank*r, dipsh1t and on and on and on. By adding the colour of the person or implying they resemble an animal to the insult is meant to cause a little bit more injury and displays more vindictiveness and less intelligence on the part of the name caller.

"A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." - Milton Friedman

This is a great saying, if all parties truly have the ability, the education, the employment prospects, the health care and are given access to the essentials, 24/7. There are some Aboriginal communities that still don't have running water 24 hours a day. Some will argue that they choose to live like that and if they don't like it, they should move in to town. Then what? No job, no money, no way of getting the kids to school.

This however transcends racial barriers and is more a society problem in general. Who will look after the kids that are right now living in drug dens with parents who care for nothing but their next hit? Who will look after the sexually abused kids that are trapped in vile surroundings with seemingly no way out? Who will offer a job to a wayward kid with a charge sheet a mile long that grows up in a poverty stricken family? Put on top of this the racial slurs of the ignorantly "entitled". These kids are our next generation, and there are more of them out there than we think, or would even like to consider. The large majority of them living in Aboriginal communities and housing.

Living with freedom before equality is fine, if you have no trouble turning a blind eye to those that fall by the wayside. America is a terrific example. The land of the free!! No racial problems there.

 

[Hamster Huey]

Thanks, Moz.

It is well worth the read through Dallas' blog to guage his disinterest in the mainstream media, regarding their promotion of Indigenous Affairs. He sees it as being used for click-bait and feel-good fuzzies, as opposed to actually working to pinpoint the failings in the system, from both sides of the spectrum. It certainly isn't a 'lack of love' that drives him.

I recognise that the boo'ing increased after the 'ape' incident. Where the public have been driven offside is that a 13-year-old girl was isolated amongst the (alleged) rivers of racist diatribe, and the subsequent shaming. Goodes wasn't responsible for the rough-handling of her after being pointed out, but he did little to dampen the media pack against her over subsequent days.

If he had pointed out a white bloke amongst that (alleged) cacophany of racial slander, the crowds would be more forgiven of the process. He should know far better and have a greater capacity for restraining his emotive speak. But this was a young girl, at an age prone to unfiltered outbursts at the best of time.

Once the media started on her, the crowds used the only voice they had available; boo'ing in the crowds. This is largely about a powerful person (and compliant mouthpieces) ganging up on a defenceless child. Simples. It could have petered out but instead of reaching out to the mob in a reconcilliary tone, Goodes chose to continue villifying many of us via connections to dark pasts that had no relation to why the crowd boo'd. This is the tit-for-tat I speak of. Neither side is right, but neither will step back.

I agree that racist comments aren't completely stamped out, and to be fair, I can't ever see that time. Like you say, what happens in private is largely unavoidable. We can just continue to improve the various education methods that will at the very least have 99% of people double-check themselves before mouthing inappropriate comments.

If I read you right re: the quote, you are saying that all things being equal, we can have equality. That's the issue...equality of itself is a pipedream. Look at the various socialist/communist entities that have removed most freedoms for the people, in the alleged pursuit of equality across the board. At it's worst, there are millions of dead over a short span of time.

People choose to make decisions that prevents equality. Sometimes if we want equality (fresh water and uninterrupted power 24hrs a day, access to education, career paths, better living conditions), we have to use our available freedoms to make this happen. We don't need to turn a blind-eye to anybody that falls by the wayside, but we do have to ask the serious question as to whether this fall is self-inflicted, or not.