Club News 2024

[eaglebuzz]

Not sure what the fascination/worry that some have with needing another 2nd rower,in some cases some calling for a “gun” second rower.Penrith won the comp with 1 and the Storm finished minor premiers with arguably none.Manly may need depth,but spending “big” $$ on a second rower is unnecessary.Manly’s problems are not due to the absence of someone dynamic on the left edge

You are kidding right? Eli Katoa was literally a Dally M second rower of the year.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The “messy situation” is the stranglehold Isaac Moses has on the club

Can you describe how the stranglehold actually works. As I understand it coach Seibold is a Moses client and a number of current players are too. But aren't there other player agents at Manly with just as many clients?
Is the idea that Seibold will recruit Moses players even if he doesn't want them?
I've posted in the past about player agents and conflict of interest but not sure exactly how the stranglehold is said to work at Manly (serious question).

 

[Phobia]

Can you describe how the stranglehold actually works. As I understand it coach Seibold is a Moses client and a number of current players are too. But aren't there other player agents at Manly with just as many clients?
Is the idea that Seibold will recruit Moses players even if he doesn't want them?
I've posted in the past about player agents and conflict of interest but not sure exactly how the stranglehold is said to work at Manly (serious question).

Agreed, if Moses actually had a stranglehold, Lodge would still be here, and on like 500k. No way Moses would let him go, presumably nowhere at the moment, if he had control over Seibold and our recruitment.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Not sure what the fascination/worry that some have with needing another 2nd rower,in some cases some calling for a “gun” second rower.Penrith won the comp with 1 and the Storm finished minor premiers with arguably none.Manly may need depth,but spending “big” $$ on a second rower is unnecessary.Manly’s problems are not due to the absence of someone dynamic on the left edge

Katoa was outstanding and is certainly not an example of a team with no quality edge forwards. However, I think you're right in that a dynamic left edge forward is not going to determine our success next season. It won't hurt to strengthen the position but there are bigger issues at play than who suits up on our left edge.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Can you describe how the stranglehold actually works. As I understand it coach Seibold is a Moses client and a number of current players are too. But aren't there other player agents at Manly with just as many clients?
Is the idea that Seibold will recruit Moses players even if he doesn't want them?
I've posted in the past about player agents and conflict of interest but not sure exactly how the stranglehold is said to work at Manly (serious question).

I believe there is a media agenda pedalling this narrative that a manager's influence at a club can undermine its success; I am yet to see it materialise. The Tartek problem was supposed to blow up when the Fainu's left for the Tigers and we were supposedly going to lose Olakau'atu as a result...a few weeks later, he signed on for life.

 

[Nordburg]

Can you describe how the stranglehold actually works. As I understand it coach Seibold is a Moses client and a number of current players are too. But aren't there other player agents at Manly with just as many clients?
Is the idea that Seibold will recruit Moses players even if he doesn't want them?
I've posted in the past about player agents and conflict of interest but not sure exactly how the stranglehold is said to work at Manly (serious question).

Moses also did the deals for Jim Dymock and Peter Gentle,not sure if he is actually their manager but not sure either really needs one anyway given their positions and maybe age/experience.Once a manager starts having many clients at a club,they can start using each of them against the club when negotiations for renewals or upgrades.Strong clubs don’t have to worry about that and let’s hope Mestrov is working towards that position

 

[Nordburg]

You are kidding right? Eli Katoa was literally a Dally M second rower of the year.

Katoa had a great season but was certainly not a “gun” prior to this year and is on nowhere near “gun” money.Id suggest he’s a product of the team/ environment around him,much like Sorensen at the Panthers.Not sure they’re at the same level at a lower performing club

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Katoa had a great season but was certainly not a “gun” prior to this year and is on nowhere near “gun” money.Id suggest he’s a product of the team/ environment around him,much like Sorensen at the Panthers.Not sure they’re at the same level at a lower performing club

I agree, Katoa wasn't very convincing early on at Storm but Bellamy persisted and he eventually went from strength to strength in their system as the season went on.
Blore on the left side pretty similar. (Another dud recruit from West Tigers!)

 

[ManlyTragic]

PVL must be hard up for "experts"

Rugby league is headed for a decade of peace. The NRL and its clubs will spend the next 10 years sitting around the campfire, roasting marshmallows and singing kumbaya.
Pull the other one I hear you say, it plays jingle bells.

Yes, the clubs and the NRL have struck a landmark agreement over license agreements which will form the bedrock of a new relationship for the next decade.

But 10 years of peace may be stretching it. The good news is clubs are about to be consulted like never before, resolving one of the major issues between them and Rugby League Central.

An advisory group of three chairs has been formed - the initial trio will be South Sydney’s Nick Pappas, North Queensland’s Lewis Ramsey and Manly’s Scott Penn - to communicate with the NRL on everything from naming rights to expansion to broadcast negotiations.

I think that that is excellent that Penn is proactive and puts himself in a representative position on an important advisory group. There are 14 other clubs that have no representation.
Representing manly he is in a position to make changes rather than sitting back and waiting for changes to happen…
Well done Penn!

 

[LeonardCohen]

Moses also did the deals for Jim Dymock and Peter Gentle,not sure if he is actually their manager but not sure either really needs one anyway given their positions and maybe age/experience.Once a manager starts having many clients at a club,they can start using each of them against the club when negotiations for renewals or upgrades.Strong clubs don’t have to worry about that and let’s hope Mestrov is working towards that position

That’s the media narrative but what it fails to consider, is the client, who unequivocally holds the balance of power in negotiations. It would take complicit players (and many of them) to bring a club to its knees. That’s why it’s spin and that’s why it hasn’t happened yet, in spite of the dooms day predictions of Hooper and the like.

 

[Frogz]

I think that that is excellent that Penn is proactive and puts himself in a representative position on an important advisory group. There are 14 other clubs that have no representation.
Representing manly he is in a position to make changes rather than sitting back and waiting for changes to happen…
Well done Penn!

They won’t have the right to veto agreements, but they will be taken on the journey and it shapes as a significant step forward in the relationship between the clubs and head office.

Pity he doesn't spend more time on manly and be more proactive with us. All he is worried about is Vegas and himself.

 

[ManlyTragic]

They won’t have the right to veto agreements, but they will be taken on the journey and it shapes as a significant step forward in the relationship between the clubs and head office.

Pity he doesn't spend more time on manly and be more proactive with us. All he is worried about is Vegas and himself.

A failed manly franchise is no good to him! I feel that he has appointed a very good ceo and we are starting to head in the right direction. The culture appears to be improving… there is less bad news ie the walker incidents, jersey gate, Gladstone , Hastings,AFB, Manase Fainu etc…..

Just sayin’

 

[47MVEagle]

I believe there is a media agenda pedalling this narrative that a manager's influence at a club can undermine its success; I am yet to see it materialise. The Tartek problem was supposed to blow up when the Fainu's left for the Tigers and we were supposedly going to lose Olakau'atu as a result...a few weeks later, he signed on for life.

Well, we did extend/upgrade/re-sign Suli & Schuster due to pressure from Tartak.

We also kept Manase & his 3 brothers on the books & moved the entire Fainu family to the northern beaches while awaiting Manase’s trial to keep them happy, which didn’t work in our favour, because Samuela & Latu demanded more $$$ to match what the Tigers offered them after Manase was found guilty.

He had 10 or 11 players (all of whom were absolute guns according to the media) at Manly at one stage & was definitely using them as leverage to keep Manly upgrading & re-signing them.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Well, we did extend/upgrade/re-sign Suli & Schuster due to pressure from Tartak.

We also kept Manase & his 3 brothers on the books & moved the entire Fainu family to the northern beaches while awaiting Manase’s trial to keep them happy, which didn’t work in our favour, because Samuela & Latu demanded more $$$ to match what the Tigers offered them after Manase was found guilty.

He had 10 or 11 players (all of whom were absolute guns according to the media) at Manly at one stage & was definitely using them as leverage to keep Manly upgrading & re-signing them.

I haven’t seen any facts to support these assertions.

Given we gave out the contracts, I tend to believe they were all at the club because we thought they were good footballers. Suli has publicly stated he did not want to leave, yet we moved him on…wouldn’t the all conquering and powerful Tartek be able to prevent that from happening? Then we released the Fainu’s to buy Luke Brooks. Couldn’t he have stopped that? That must mean he would take his best player away as punishment? No, Olakau’atu re-signed.

Media spin.

 

[47MVEagle]

I haven’t seen any facts to support these assertions.

Given we gave out the contracts, I tend to believe they were all at the club because we thought they were good footballers. Suli has publicly stated he did not want to leave, yet we moved him on…wouldn’t the all conquering and powerful Tartek be able to prevent that from happening? Then we released the Fainu’s to buy Luke Brooks. Couldn’t he have stopped that? That must mean he would take his best player away as punishment? No, Olakau’atu re-signed.

Media spin.

Well it depends what you deem 'facts' but here's an article from way back when Des wanted to sign Foran:

"“Schuster’s agent Mario Tartak has told Manly that if Foran signs the Schuster wants a release,” Weidler said on Channel 9."

It was pretty common knowledge over a period of about 3 years (again, depends on what you deem 'facts') that Tartak was strong-arming the club to get upgrades for his players that were contracted at Manly under the threat of taking them elsewhere.

When Scott Fulton got the boot & Tartak tried it on with Tuitavake & Villiami, they were unceremoniously shipped out to Saints, where Suli had previously been shipped, because Tartak moved him on.

So using my skills of inferral, I can see that as soon as Tartak's buddy Fulton was gone, Tartak's tactics were no longer entertained or tolerated, & his players started getting shipped out.

The only ones we kept at that time were Saab, Schuster & Olakau'atu, & Tartak still managed to get the club to sign overs for Schuster, despite his underwhelming track record of the previous couple of seasons.

Manly want Kieran Foran to play hooker. But if he signs a boom young gun will walk

Des wants Foran to play hooker. But a Manly prodigy has threatened to walk if he signs

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[47MVEagle]

@LeonardCohen Suli (like Fifita) was told by his manager (Tartak) he was gong to Saints - doesn't say we (Manly) moved him on so not sure why you think that:

"“We’ve got the same manager and (Tartak) let me know that (Fifita) was looking to come here and from what my manager said, (Fifita) didn’t want to come, he loved it over there at Manly,” Suli said.

“But yeah, I was in the same situation as well, I didn’t want to come here but I’ve got to do what’s best for me and best for my footy and he’s coming to do the same thing."

"Foxsports.com.au contacted Tartak to clarify Suli’s comments and he explained the western Sydney product was talking about leaving his comfort zone.

Tartak emphasised Suli’s comments were in the context of moving away from Sydney and his family and friends, and not a knock on the Dragons."

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/i-didnt-want-to-come-here-either-moses-sulis-surprise-dragons-admission/news-story/12f6f3b5d48384b1a1dd3f20b434a1b2

 

[47MVEagle]

Given we gave out the contracts, I tend to believe they were all at the club because we thought they were good footballers.

Re: this bit - are you not familiar with the Western Sydney pathways program that was set up by Scott Fulton, that Mario Tartak was all over?

Like I said, at one point, we had some 10 or 11 of his players here, all of whom were apparently "guns" (according to "media spin").

Now only 2 of those players remain & the rest have disappeared into the mists of mediocrity since Scott Fulton was sacked by Manly & the Tartak effect diminished.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Re: this bit - are you not familiar with the Western Sydney pathways program that was set up by Scott Fulton, that Mario Tartak was all over?

Like I said, at one point, we had some 10 or 11 of his players here, all of whom were apparently "guns" (according to "media spin").

Now only 2 of those players remain & the rest have disappeared into the mists of mediocrity since Scott Fulton was sacked by Manly & the Tartak effect diminished.

You seem to be working overtime to compile a brief of evidence but it’s important to discern what I am essentially saying; that is, I am not concerned that player manager influence will seriously hurt our club and believe it is media spin.
That is very different from a suggestion that a player manager has never tried to leverage a club. Of course they have…they are player managers, that’s what they do. You’ve provided evidence to suggest that player managers attempt to manipulate outcomes in their favour; I think we can all appreciate that it happens. I’m just not concerned that it will have catastrophic consequences. I’m yet to see it bring a club to its knees. I see no cause for anxiety.

What’s also worth noting is your reference to the pathways program that Tartek was all over. Did Manly sign those players because Tartek was their manager or were they signed because we were tapping into an area of Western Sydney where Tartek happened to have a number of talented clients? For example, how many Tartek clients are currently running around in junior nurseries in far North Queensland?

 

[47MVEagle]

You seem to be working overtime to compile a brief of evidence but it’s important to discern what I am essentially saying; that is, I am not concerned that player manager influence will seriously hurt our club and believe it is media spin.
That is very different from a suggestion that a player manager has never tried to leverage a club. Of course they have…they are player managers, that’s what they do. You’ve provided evidence to suggest that player managers attempt to manipulate outcomes in their favour; I think we can all appreciate that it happens. I’m just not concerned that it will have catastrophic consequences. I’m yet to see it bring a club to its knees. I see no cause for anxiety.

What’s also worth noting is your reference to the pathways program that Tartek was all over. Did Manly sign those players because Tartek was their manager or were they signed because we were tapping into an area of Western Sydney where Tartek happened to have a number of talented clients? For example, how many Tartek clients are currently running around in junior nurseries in far North Queensland?

You don't think our lack of stability in the 5/8th position has been an undermining factor in our success over the past 5 or 6 years?

Schuster (a Tartak client) was annointed while in the 16s to be our future 5/8th. In the period between then & him debuting in first grade, we had a revolving door of 5/8ths:

Dylan Walker
Blake Green
Jackson Hastings
Lachlan Croker
Tom Wright
Kane Elgey
Cade Cust
even Tevita Funa played a game there
Cooper Johns
Jake Arthur
Kaeo Weekes

...before realising that Schuster was not the answer in that position.

In that same time his manager kicked up a stink when it was announced Foran was returning to Manly (article quoted above), then again when there were suggestions Manly would re-sign Foran after his 2 year stint. He also convinced Manly to sign Schuster on a massive contract that is still impacting us negatively today & no doubt for at least 1 or 2 more years salary cap-wise.

Mestrov comes in as CEO, gets rid of Fulton, who was acting as Tartak's recruitment & placement officer, we sign Luke Brooks & get rid of Schuster, & all of a sudden we have stability in our halves again.

How is that down to "media spin" only?

 

[BOZO]

You don't think our lack of stability in the 5/8th position has been an undermining factor in our success over the past 5 or 6 years?

Hi feathered friend , I hope you are keeping well in your Eagle nest

My perspective of our lack of stability in the 5/8 position was the coaching staffs inability to get the best of and make the most of all the Quality 5/8ths at our disposal
We even had the premiership Wining combo of Foran and DCE at our disposal but under Des Haslers second coming his coaching methods was underwhelming .

Under Seibold we released the promising Weekes and Humphries and opted for the quick fix Brooks as this instability continued

Schuster is the interesting one
The Schus out standing debut had one of the Greatest 5/8s in Benji mesmerised by his performance calling it the greatest debut of any 5/8th he has seen
It is interesting to see if Guru coach Bennet can bring out the best out of the Schu and turning a bargain buy into the brilliant player that he is capable of