CORE GROUP Manifesto

[Pommie Eagle]

What a joke - the most important retention plan is DCE and Foran, their our playmakers and without them the future would be bleaker. Get off Cherry's back, offer Gifty what we as a club can afford, and let him make that decision. As much as I love Skivvy, (and what a season he has been having), he is bang out of order making those comments publically and stirring this **** up for the media. The culture of this great club was around along time before the "core group" invented it, sorry Glenn, but Manly don't 'owe' you anything - you have been handsomly paid for your fantastic efforts but we as a club always need to look to the future - you and Snake are not getting any younger - if the "core group" are throwing their dummies out of their prams, perhaps they are not the the aspiring heroes we though they were.

 

[master blaster]

then we better win the comp this year,because if worse comes to worse,we,ll be down a few stars next year

 

[Ramrod]

What a joke - the most important retention plan is DCE and Foracn, their our playmakers and without them the future would be bleaker. Get off Cherry's back, offer Gifty what we as a club can afford, and let him make that decision. As much as I love Skivvy, (and what a season he has been having), he is bang out of order making those comments publically and stirring this ... up for the media. The culture of this great club was around along time before the "core group" invented it, sorry Glenn, but Manly don't 'owe' you anything - you have been handsomly paid for your fantastic efforts but we as a club always need to look to the future - you and Snake are not getting any younger - if the "core group" are throwing their dummies out of their prams, perhaps they are not the the aspiring heroes we though they were.

DCE may not even stay if another better offer is on the horizon.
The big question is, how much should we fork out for one player? Is that wise management? I'd like Cherry to stay forever but we can't put all our eggs in one basket.

The other issue is, Fozza might follow Gifty out of our club. Friends usually stick together. Others might too. Will we cry loyalty then?

People always talked about club loyalty and our club is no different. It has to be a two way street.

I think there should be at least an offer tabled to Gifty. It's only right because he HAS earned that right.

 

[mike walker]

On BSB this morning, they said Manly and Glenn's management have been talking for 7 months. If there's been no discussion of a contract offer, WTF have they been talking about?

The weather?

How awesome it was when Gift punched Adam Blair?

g'day all,I don't want to seem like a killjoy all the time but "the blue ' between blair and glen saw both players throwing punches(if you want to call them that)at each other with none landing.Didn't see much future for either of them in a post footy boxing career.
cheers mike

 

[niccipops]

Seems to be differing opinions on who the core group is.

Maybe the core group is these guys -
DCE, FOZ, 2 x Stewarts, Killer, Wolfie, Ballin, Hiku, Blair, Matai, Jake.T, BJ, Jorge, Lui, Choc, Starling, T.red, Gutherson, Horo, Jesse, Jamie.B, Soa, Chee-Kam and that new giant Kiwi bloke.

These are the players I would retain at Manly if possible.

 

[6/71]

No player is bigger than the club.

 

[MadMarcus]

No player is bigger than the club.

George Rose came close.

 

[Fluffy]

I am sure the club has told him what they have available under the cap and what they would actually like to offer him.

Why else would they go to the NRL and ask for the "mini" loophole.

Anyone who thinks the club are not trying to keep him are idiots

 

[globaleagle]

Can't we just give glen another back ended contract???


Problem solved!

 

[Hamster Huey]

It is an extraordinary situation we find ourselves in, since the application of a Salary Cap during the NRL era. Never has a club been able to match the stability of our playing groups that we've seen since re-introduction.

What other club has four guys in their current squads, that played first grade in that side for TWELVE seasons!!! That is unheard of and only the rorting Storm can suggest they come close.

Then when considering the kids that have been developed through our junior systems and we could easily run out ELEVEN players this weekend, that were at the club in 2008!!!

When looking at that history though, the negative is obvious...we have 6-7 players with only 4-5 years left in their careers. I would love that they stay in Manly colours for their entire career, but what if they all finish up within two seasons of one another. That is a massive shift in personnel, across the park. Fullback, hooker, prop, centres and key 2nd rowers.

The question then is what does the club feel most important. Indulge in the feel good story of playing the group until they're ready to finish? Being a tight bunch, you'd think once one retires, the others will start to have a serious eye on their finish and it's conceivable that 2017-18 will see announcement after announcement of players finishing up with their mates. Then what? All that loyalty and then 3-4 of our most experienced players gone. I don't care how good our culture is, you simply don't fill a hole like that in one off-season.

So we are at a crossroads. Are the senior players serious about staying togther, and if so, do they recognise what impact it has down the track. Do they place themselves above the club for the sake of 'playing with their mates', while we are shedding talent to accommodate that?

What's Manly in 2017-18 when they're gone, and to achieve their milestones as a group we've seen Foran, DCE and a raft of other future players pushed out.

It's a balancing act and I would trust that the senior players look further than their next contract, if they truly love and respect the colours they play in. Otherwise their achievements for the club will largely end at their retirement, as we enter a serious re-building phase of the kind we've avoided in the last decade. Is that the legacy they want to leave?

 

[Ramrod]

It is an extraordinary situation we find ourselves in, since the application of a Salary Cap during the NRL era. Never has a club been able to match the stability of our playing groups that we've seen since re-introduction.

What other club has four guys in their current squads, that played first grade in that side for TWELVE seasons!!! That is unheard of and only the rorting Storm can suggest they come close.

Then when considering the kids that have been developed through our junior systems and we could easily run out ELEVEN players this weekend, that were at the club in 2008!!!

When looking at that history though, the negative is obvious...we have 6-7 players with only 4-5 years left in their careers. I would love that they stay in Manly colours for their entire career, but what if they all finish up within two seasons of one another. That is a massive shift in personnel, across the park. Fullback, hooker, prop, centres and key 2nd rowers.

The question then is what does the club feel most important. Indulge in the feel good story of playing the group until they're ready to finish? Being a tight bunch, you'd think once one retires, the others will start to have a serious eye on their finish and it's conceivable that 2017-18 will see announcement after announcement of players finishing up with their mates. Then what? All that loyalty and then 3-4 of our most experienced players gone. I don't care how good our culture is, you simply don't fill a hole like that in one off-season.

So we are at a crossroads. Are the senior players serious about staying togther, and if so, do they recognise what impact it has down the track. Do they place themselves above the club for the sake of 'playing with their mates', while we are shedding talent to accommodate that?

What's Manly in 2017-18 when they're gone, and to achieve their milestones as a group we've seen Foran, DCE and a raft of other future players pushed out.

It's a balancing act and I would trust that the senior players look further than their next contract, if they truly love and respect the colours they play in. Otherwise their achievements for the club will largely end at their retirement, as we enter a serious re-building phase of the kind we've avoided in the last decade. Is that the legacy they want to leave?

I have no fear whatsoever of a bunch of senior players getting ready to exit. Right now, we are already grooming the youngsters for such an event. Giving them lots of advise, support, experience from the older heads.

That's why we have Hiku, Trbojevic, Gutherson, Buhrer, JSL, etc. all waiting on the wings to gain more experience and a permanent spot once the others exit.

Right now, the young kids are not at that level yet. That's why they have to wait in the wings to keep Manly always on top. Just because the kids have a few good games, it doesn't mean they are the same class as the older crop.

You may not remember how long our local junior, Max Krilich had to wait in Reserve Grade until another local junior, Freddy Jones decided to retire.

KRILICH could have gotten a first grade spot in any other club, but he waited and got better and better. He eventually went on to become the test hooker and Captain Australia and Captain of Manly. When he retired, he still played over 200 first grade games.

We can't dismiss the best players just because they are getting older. They would still outplay the kids because they ARE the best right now. Would Lockyer play in lower grades just because he got old? Allan Langer? Bobby Fulton?

Would other kids want to come to Manly if we didn't have the older stars to attract them to be an apprentice and learn from?

We are lucky we have a host of awesome players with lots of experience and still on top of their game. Players like Matai, Lyon, Choc, Stewarts, Ballin, etc. Should any kid leave, we'll have others to fill in. Always have.

I'll be the first to tell the older players to retire if they weren't producing the results on the field. But right now, they ARE the best players and we want to field The Best, not "possibly best in the future".

Furthermore, they give each other a warm and fuzzy feeling to be together. Why not keep them together to keep that buddy-love going?

--

 

[Fluffy]

thanks farver

 

[Hamster Huey]

It is an extraordinary situation we find ourselves in, since the application of a Salary Cap during the NRL era. Never has a club been able to match the stability of our playing groups that we've seen since re-introduction.

I have no fear whatsoever of a bunch of senior players getting ready to exit. Right now, we are already grooming the youngsters for such an event. Giving them lots of advise, support, experience from the older heads.

That's why we have Hiku, Trbojevic, Gutherson, Buhrer, JSL, etc. all waiting on the wings to gain more experience and a permanent spot once the others exit.

Right now, the young kids are not at that level yet. That's why they have to wait in the wings to keep Manly always on top. Just because the kids have a few good games, it doesn't mean they are the same class as the older crop.

You may not remember how long our local junior, Max Krilich had to wait in Reserve Grade until another local junior, Freddy Jones decided to retire.

KRILICH could have gotten a first grade spot in any other club, but he waited and got better and better. He eventually went on to become the test hooker and Captain Australia and Captain of Manly. When he retired, he still played over 200 first grade games.

We can't dismiss the best players just because they are getting older. They would still outplay the kids because they ARE the best right now. Would Lockyer play in lower grades just because he got old? Allan Langer? Bobby Fulton?

Would other kids want to come to Manly if we didn't have the older stars to attract them to be an apprentice and learn from?

We are lucky we have a host of awesome players with lots of experience and still on top of their game. Players like Matai, Lyon, Choc, Stewarts, Ballin, etc. Should any kid leave, we'll have others to fill in. Always have.

I'll be the first to tell the older players to retire if they weren't producing the results on the field. But right now, they ARE the best players and we want to field The Best, not "possibly best in the future".

Furthermore, they give each other a warm and fuzzy feeling to be together. Why not keep them together to keep that buddy-love going?

--

Krilich waiting was at a time when their was no Cap. If another club offered a lot of money for him to leave for another opportunity, Manly would pay more.

We don't have that luxury. It's all well and good to look at the current crop of youngsters, but how many stay for the next 3-5 years, waiting for that opportunity. I noted the 11 that we could run out this weekend, who were here in 2008. But what of the list of players making up the remaining 2 spots to complete that run on side, and how many have moved on to other clubs.

Other clubs are watching our kids and will swoop if they prove themselves in their opportunities, and there is no way we can match those deals over the coming seasons. There is a real danger that all those names will not be part of the Manly squad, when those older guys decide to leave.

 

[conanu]

I think this is all a media **** storm created by Dean Richie through his mate Zorba. Who probably thinks he is helping Glenn by doing it.

I have faith in the club that they will make the right decision and i also think that they are moving heaven and earth to re-sign Glenn. Toovey knows the importance of these blokes and i'm sure he wouldn't want to deny Glenn the opportunity of being a one club player. Personally i would rather hold on to Glenn and possibly lose DCE if he is after big money as i think we are going to need to sell the club to keep DCE and i'm not so sure that Brisbane wont offer him billions because they missed out on C Smith. we could potentially end up with Glenn and DCE gone and a club in disarray anyway.

This photo was taken yesterday and it doesnt look to me like a Senior playing group that don't communicate.

 

[Ramrod]

It is an extraordinary situation we find ourselves in, since the application of a Salary Cap during the NRL era. Never has a club been able to match the stability of our playing groups that we've seen since re-introduction.

I have no fear whatsoever of a bunch of senior players getting ready to exit. Right now, we are already grooming the youngsters for such an event. Giving them lots of advise, support, experience from the older heads.

That's why we have Hiku, Trbojevic, Gutherson, Buhrer, JSL, etc. all waiting on the wings to gain more experience and a permanent spot once the others exit.

Right now, the young kids are not at that level yet. That's why they have to wait in the wings to keep Manly always on top. Just because the kids have a few good games, it doesn't mean they are the same class as the older crop.

You may not remember how long our local junior, Max Krilich had to wait in Reserve Grade until another local junior, Freddy Jones decided to retire.

KRILICH could have gotten a first grade spot in any other club, but he waited and got better and better. He eventually went on to become the test hooker and Captain Australia and Captain of Manly. When he retired, he still played over 200 first grade games.

We can't dismiss the best players just because they are getting older. They would still outplay the kids because they ARE the best right now. Would Lockyer play in lower grades just because he got old? Allan Langer? Bobby Fulton?

Would other kids want to come to Manly if we didn't have the older stars to attract them to be an apprentice and learn from?

We are lucky we have a host of awesome players with lots of experience and still on top of their game. Players like Matai, Lyon, Choc, Stewarts, Ballin, etc. Should any kid leave, we'll have others to fill in. Always have.

I'll be the first to tell the older players to retire if they weren't producing the results on the field. But right now, they ARE the best players and we want to field The Best, not "possibly best in the future".

Furthermore, they give each other a warm and fuzzy feeling to be together. Why not keep them together to keep that buddy-love going?

--

Krilich waiting was at a time when their was no Cap. If another club offered a lot of money for him to leave for another opportunity, Manly would pay more.

We don't have that luxury. It's all well and good to look at the current crop of youngsters, but how many stay for the next 3-5 years, waiting for that opportunity. I noted the 11 that we could run out this weekend, who were here in 2008. But what of the list of players making up the remaining 2 spots to complete that run on side, and how many have moved on to other clubs.

Other clubs are watching our kids and will swoop if they prove themselves in their opportunities, and there is no way we can match those deals over the coming seasons. There is a real danger that all those names will not be part of the Manly squad, when those older guys decide to leave.

Wrong. You've forgotten an Arko favourite at that very same era. If anyone Arko wanted to keep more, it would have been our immortal Bozo.
Arko said it was like a kick in the guts when Bobby Fulton left for more money to go to Easts.

Manly did not pay overs to keep Fulton, even when there was no salary cap!

Manly will not pay overs then, Manly will not pay overs now.

Whether it's DCE or Gifty, Manly will NOT be held for ransom.
I just hope we table an offer to Gifty, at the very least, for his very good service to Manly. It's not for me to make up an amount, but out of respect for the bloke, any reasonable offer would be nice.

You'd better get the tissues out when some younger players go to other clubs for more. I've gotten used to it over many decades and it's nothing new to me now.

--

 

[Hamster Huey]

It is an extraordinary situation we find ourselves in, since the application of a Salary Cap during the NRL era. Never has a club been able to match the stability of our playing groups that we've seen since re-introduction.

I have no fear whatsoever of a bunch of senior players getting ready to exit. Right now, we are already grooming the youngsters for such an event. Giving them lots of advise, support, experience from the older heads.

Krilich waiting was at a time when their was no Cap. If another club offered a lot of money for him to leave for another opportunity, Manly would pay more.

We don't have that luxury. It's all well and good to look at the current crop of youngsters, but how many stay for the next 3-5 years, waiting for that opportunity.

Wrong. You've forgotten an Arko favourite at that very same era. If anyone Arko wanted to keep more, it would have been our immortal Bozo.
Arko said it was like a kick in the guts when Bobby Fulton left for more money to go to Easts.

Manly did not pay overs to keep Fulton, even when there was no salary cap!

Manly will not pay overs then, Manly will not pay overs now.

Whether it's DCE or Gifty, Manly will NOT be held for ransom.
I just hope we table an offer to Gifty, at the very least, for his very good service to Manly. It's not for me to make up an amount, but out of respect for the bloke, any reasonable offer would be nice.

You'd better get the tissues out when some younger players go to other clubs for more. I've gotten used to it over many decades and it's nothing new to me now.

--

Wrong? You think the Krilich situation would happen in this era? Young blokes simply don't hang around outside the Top 25 for kicks; they want to play first grade and they want to be paid as best they can for it.

You appear to be confusing yourself when you say 'no problems' we have a heap of young kids ready to step up, then come back and say 'no problems' when the kids move on because we have few opportunities to offer them. Which is it? Both?

We are really leaning on our ability to regularly develop first-graders and maintain the strong player culture, moving into the next phase. For every Whare or maybe Hiku that leaves, we seem to expect another classy young player will step up to another level. I would love to see it transition well, but there are more examples of team cultures collapsing in professional sport when a raft of senior players leave a group, then otherwise.

 

[Budgie]

Agree with Hamster there. Look at this morning's Sun Herald for the article on JSL (sorry can't find online). After the Roosters game, he got in his car and drove straight to Penrith for a nighttime Security shift so he can support his wife and two small kids. Does anyone really think this extremely talented kid is going to turn down real dollars to wait for his chance to get a start with us?

 

[Ramrod]

Wrong? You think the Krilich situation would happen in this era? Young blokes simply don't hang around outside the Top 25 for kicks; they want to play first grade and they want to be paid as best they can for it.

You appear to be confusing yourself when you say 'no problems' we have a heap of young kids ready to step up, then come back and say 'no problems' when the kids move on because we have few opportunities to offer them. Which is it? Both?

We are really leaning on our ability to regularly develop first-graders and maintain the strong player culture, moving into the next phase. For every Whare or maybe Hiku that leaves, we seem to expect another classy young player will step up to another level. I would love to see it transition well, but there are more examples of team cultures collapsing in professional sport when a raft of senior players leave a group, then otherwise.

Beaver played in this era and it happened.
If Beaver was still playing, it'd still happen.
It all depends on whether the player is a fan off the field as well.

Beaver could never see himself in any other colours.
Beaver couldn't disappoint Mackie.

I'm not confused.
It's "no problems" either way whether the kids stayed or not.
We don't have a say at the end of the day.
It has always happened and it always will.
Nothing you nor I can do anything about it.
I rather us not spend overs on one player but rather on a host of others. I don't want us to be like the "Thurston Cowboys".

Just to remind, we have no control over these stars that have left (just to name a few) -
- Will Hopoate.
- Darcy Lussick.
- Ivan Cleary.
- Phil Blake.
- Dale Shearer.
- Shannon Nevin.
- Bobby Fulton.
- Phil Bailey.
- Josh Stuart.
- Jared Warea Hargreaves.

As much as I want DCE and Hiku to stay forever, there's no guarantees another club will not walk up and give them ridiculous $$ to switch. There's no guarantees any young player will stay no matter how much we offer them.

Because you're a genuine Manly fan, I rather not argue with you.
I rather we take our frustrations out on a Slimy Worm, Dirty Dogs, Rorters or Bunny Vermin fan instead.

--

 

[HappilyManly]

Foz just on Fox Sports stating that the only reason he is not in extension talks, is that its a distraction during the season. Nothing to do with Glenn

'Happy to talk at the end of the year, off season and will look at extending'

 

[RiverEagle]

I hope that's true @HappilyManly and not just some standard reflex sound-byte.
I rate Foz very highly and see him as our next captain after Killer.

( Hopefully his ''pal'' Shame Hayne is gone by then!)