Does Manly pack have enough Mongrel ?

[Eagles4Life]

I think it’s a concern.

We need to put Aloiai’s head on Paseka’s body. One is a psycho but physically limited, the other is a pussy cat with limitless physical potential.

The intensity that Penrith played with in their final two matches was incredible...but it wasn’t just their pack; the whole team seemed ‘up for it’. They were certainly hungrier than everyone else.

Yep their whole team played with the hunger and intensity needed to win a GF. To me that's what this thread is about. Unfortunately, we don't have that mongrel resilience and intensity in our pack.....yet. Maybe it's coming but it's hard to see how many of our current starting pack, can demonstrate that "mongrelness", consistently against the top teams. Keppie has it sometimes, Aloiai has it (but not consistently), Taupau used to have it, Paseka definitely doesn't have it. Ola'katau has it to a degree (sometimes), Schuster definitely doesn't have it. Perhaps Bullemor will develop it. Davey has it, but probably won't make the seventeen. I've never really seen Sipley demonstrate it. Jake and Croker are more Terrier than mongrel. De Luis is a hard worker, but doesn't really have that in him either. To be honest I am not really sure where it's going to come from. We really need a hard working mongrel like Finucane, but unfortunately there's not many of them around.

 

[davohan123]

I heard we were prepared to let Taupau leave if he found a deal elsewhere but he has chosen to stay because he can’t get what he is on at Manly at another club...so financially, it makes sense for him to stick around and get his $850k.

I wish he’d fire up a bit. You look at him physically and he is massive and still fairly quick and mobile but then you look at Hargreaves who is physically running on empty but fires up and refuses to be dominated.

I agree

Look I always like Marty as a manly player but for a forward I feel we as a club not getting bang for buck for the $850k he is on this year.

We need a James F Harris / JWH type of forward to show our young forwards the way. Marty could be the that player but just haven't seen it in him.

I feel the balance of the squad even leading into next year is still not right after 2022 we should know where we sit with our 9, Marty maybe let go, another year with our young squad.

2023 is the year I think we truly content.

 

[davohan123]

Yep their whole team played with the hunger and intensity needed to win a GF. To me that's what this thread is about. Unfortunately, we don't have that mongrel resilience and intensity in our pack.....yet. Maybe it's coming but it's hard to see how many of our current starting pack, can demonstrate that "mongrelness", consistently against the top teams. Keppie has it sometimes, Aloiai has it (but not consistently), Taupau used to have it, Paseka definitely doesn't have it. Ola'katau has it to a degree (sometimes), Schuster definitely doesn't have it. Perhaps Bullemor will develop it. Davey has it, but probably won't make the seventeen. I've never really seen Sipley demonstrate it. Jake and Croker are more Terrier than mongrel. De Luis is a hard worker, but doesn't really have that in him either. To be honest I am not really sure where it's going to come from. We really need a hard working mongrel like Finucane, but unfortunately there's not many of them around.

I agree snake

Its my biggest concern.

Tell me the last time our forward pack has gone after a team for more than one game in a row.

We can have all the attack in the world but we don't have that intimidating forward pack like we use to.

Teams would fear coming to brookvale oval as we would hurt teams in defence now it's our biggest liability.

I would of gone after Mark nic from souths and Christian Welch from storm with letting Marty go would of been a start.

We have the makings of good team but in my mind still very much a work in progress.

 

[Snake]

As much as we like to laugh at the Eels, their pack really showed how it's done against Penrith in that 8-6 semi-final loss...they held their own in the middle but didn't have the class to put on points; we have the opposite problem. We've got the class to put on points but struggle to hold our own in the middle which negates the attack.

 

[davohan123]

As much as we like to laugh at the Eels, their pack really showed how it's done against Penrith in that 8-6 semi-final loss...they held their own in the middle but didn't have the class to put on points; we have the opposite problem. We've got the class to put on points but struggle to hold our own in the middle which negates the attack.

And for that reason there pack with what I saw in that semi and it hurts me saying it parra are my Smokey next year..play most there games at bankwest and are the next fairytale GF win for the NRL.

 

[Snake]

And for that reason there pack with what I saw in that semi and it hurts me saying it parra are my Smokey next year..play most there games at bankwest and are the next fairytale GF win for the NRL.

Yeah it's a concern. I'd hate to see Arthur celebrating with the gatorade bucket and Mitchell Moses running around like a toddler lapping it all up...yuk!

 

[Sheikheagle]

Seeing Moses & co winning a premiership gives me heart palpitations. Please no.

 

[Eagles4Life]

And for that reason there pack with what I saw in that semi and it hurts me saying it parra are my Smokey next year..play most there games at bankwest and are the next fairytale GF win for the NRL.

I think a Manly Parra GF next year would be as good as it gets. As long as Manly win though.

 

[Eagles4Life]

Yeah it's a concern. I'd hate to see Arthur celebrating with the gatorade bucket and Mitchell Moses running around like a toddler lapping it all up...yuk!

That would definitely be a nightmare, but Parra watching us celebrating from the sidelines, would be something else as well. I say let's get our pack firing, and bring on a Manly Parra GF for 2022.

 

[StuBoot]

And for that reason there pack with what I saw in that semi and it hurts me saying it parra are my Smokey next year..play most there games at bankwest and are the next fairytale GF win for the NRL.

They’ll be distracted next year with Mahoney coming off contract, he’ll be a target for the new team in Qld.
They have quite a few others coming off contract too.
It didn’t matter how much they tried to bash teams up they just couldn’t sustain it.

 

[Eagles4Life]

That would definitely be a nightmare, but Parra watching us celebrating from the sidelines, would be something else as well. I say let's get our pack firing, and bring on a Manly Parra GF for 2022.

Yeah mate it's extremely optimistic but I would love to see it actually happen. Just remember where we were after 4 rounds this year, and where we finished. One game from a GF. I would like to think that our pack will have enough time between now and then, to find their inner mongrel, and take us one game further next year.

 

[Eagle 1]

And for that reason there pack with what I saw in that semi and it hurts me saying it parra are my Smokey next year..play most there games at bankwest and are the next fairytale GF win for the NRL.

I believe they have 10 to 12 players of contract and not signed for 22, this may have a big bearing on them going forward as a prem threat in 22.

 

[40 years an eagle]

I believe they have 10 to 12 players of contract and not signed for 22, this may have a big bearing on them going forward as a prem threat in 22.

According to Zero Tackle

OFF CONTRACT 2021
Samuel Loizou, Solomone Naiduki, Jordan Rankin, Nathaniel Roache, Sean Russell, Will Smith

2022 LOSSES
Blake Ferguson (released), Samuel Hughes (released), Joey Lussick (St Helens RLFC), Michael Oldfield (released)


Nobody there that will be sorely lost. except for Joey maybe.

 

[Eagle 1]

According to Zero Tackle

OFF CONTRACT 2021
Samuel Loizou, Solomone Naiduki, Jordan Rankin, Nathaniel Roache, Sean Russell, Will Smith

2022 LOSSES
Blake Ferguson (released), Samuel Hughes (released), Joey Lussick (St Helens RLFC), Michael Oldfield (released)


Nobody there that will be sorely lost. except for Joey maybe.

You are right 40yae, not a whole lot for King Arthur to work with if this lot went around again. Fergo is rocks or diamonds these days, can be a game breaker both ways..lol. Has Gutho put pen to paper yet, Gutho likes money and thought he was hanging out for another 100k.

 

[jbb/james]

I think too many of our players play for stats rather than game input. one does not necessarily mean a successful game. and its not just the forwards . Our senior players too often wait for someone else to play the role. Its been a concern for a few years and the insight earlier this season where it was implied some players are playing for supercoach points is not surprising if you dont watch with one eye

once tom dismantles a team or a team gets 30 in front, try assists, tries and metres are generally easier to achieve than when the game is in the balance. if we kept real stats relating to game situation it would be pretty evident

our pack is full of tall timber, not the best laterally and not enough hungry tackling machines for the style of footy we play. turning the opposition around and playing smart footy with kicking and patience is key to getting the best return for our pack but this tactic seems lost on the on field brains trust

i used to think we lacked game control but after watching the semis it seems just basic self control is missing from our game and until we get that its pretty hard to judge our pack regardless of where they sit

we can talk about fisher harris types but little cleary is sparing his pack a lot of unnecessary work and allowing them to do what they do best, more often .

the general needs the pack to roll so they can get the team moving but once that happens the pack depends on the general and they are not getting that help

the only thing resting the pack consistently is tom setting up a zillion tries and 2 x 40/20 attempts each game. aaaah back to stats

PS did you look at the **** ball huamole got over the last 6 weeks of the season. whats he to do when its overplayed on the inside and dumped on him to kick or run with 4 in his face

 

[manly al]

Think that it will still come down to consistency and getting the best regularly out of certain forwards , namely Marty , Keppie and Alioia . Paseka actually had a fairly solid season although did seem to drop off a bit after his late season injury . Bullemor should be a good addition but still need the other props to play to their max level regularly . Boyle could be a big improver next season with a decent run with injuries and sure that Sipley can still be very useful too when needed and at the required fitness level . Not so much concerned about the back row with just Shu to play a bit more influential role again . Wish we still had A F B showing his dominance in the middle but again up to Marty and co to still provide the required grunt and go forward and reliable muscle up defence there ,

 

[maxta]

As much as we like to laugh at the Eels, their pack really showed how it's done against Penrith in that 8-6 semi-final loss...they held their own in the middle but didn't have the class to put on points; we have the opposite problem. We've got the class to put on points but struggle to hold our own in the middle which negates the attack.

Very true Snake and add to the fact in 2021, also beat Storm twice and the same blueprint of physically mauling them with high intensity and aggression....yet Manly beat Eels, in arguably the toughest club game in 2021 outmuscling and bustling them and yet delivered far more "passive" performances in the finals series ??

 

[jbb/james]

Think that it will still come down to consistency and getting the best regularly out of certain forwards , namely Marty , Keppie and Alioia . Paseka actually had a fairly solid season although did seem to drop off a bit after his late season injury . Bullemor should be a good addition but still need the other props to play to their max level regularly . Boyle could be a big improver next season with a decent run with injuries and sure that Sipley can still be very useful too when needed and at the required fitness level . Not so much concerned about the back row with just Shu to play a bit more influential role again . Wish we still had A F B showing his dominance in the middle but again up to Marty and co to still provide the required grunt and go forward and reliable muscle up defence there ,

all of these players look good but im not sure how we combine as a pack. i suppose the pack has to make a group decision to decide its identity regarding how mean they are going to get and who they are in the team . A pack leader to set the tone and take ownership of the standards would be helpful . I feel there are a few in the making and of course we have jake but his legs are too slow to be the follow me guy and he seems to nice off field.

I think the team is united as a group but has a bit of growing up to do in the forseeable, and one feels the young pack needs to find its voice off the field and be more dominant in team expectation before there balls really drop.

in order to dominate other packs they need to be more alpha male in our own team first and while i know nothing about the inner sanctum of the team our forwards are just a bit nice in general and dont seem to be part of the team direction........yet

turnover, promotion, injury and age has had a lot to do with it

i thought our team looked better the more injury depleted we were at some stages last season. key players aside but the spirit deluis and oka and kepps showed in particular was the cornerstone to our success due to the consistency the gave us and they were all bench type players 12 weeks earlier

 

[Snake]

Very true Snake and add to the fact in 2021, also beat Storm twice and the same blueprint of physically mauling them with high intensity and aggression....yet Manly beat Eels, in arguably the toughest club game in 2021 outmuscling and bustling them and yet delivered far more "passive" performances in the finals series ??

I think the win against the Eels was more down to their complete capitulation for four weeks of the competition. They got their mojo back after losing it badly. I remember we shot out of the blocks and they were lethargic but we gave them a few chances with the ball and they shot themselves in the foot...then they lost two players to the bin.

It's strange but I remember being worried after a few of our big wins because I kept noticing that we'd give the opposition chances with the ball in good territory. I thought maybe I was being a hard task master at the time but it was a trend I was noticing. We'd beat a team by 30+ but possession and field position would be relatively even. It was only our attacking prowess (often from inside our own half) that allowed us to win so many games. I remember I kept thinking, if we gave this much ball to Melbourne, Souths or Penrith, we'd be losing by 20, yet here we are in front by 20.

Unfortunately, my fears were more than realised when our biggest achilles heel was turning over cheap ball to give quality opposition time to attack our red zone; the rest is history.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I think it’s a concern.

We need to put Aloiai’s head on Paseka’s body. One is a psycho but physically limited, the other is a pussy cat with limitless physical potential.

The intensity that Penrith played with in their final two matches was incredible...but it wasn’t just their pack; the whole team seemed ‘up for it’. They were certainly hungrier than everyone else.

Paseka worries me , huge , strong , but plays like a pussycat much of the time.

Oshay Olay is all heart , but often uses aggression in the wrong way to dominate.

We are LIGHT years behind the Panthers and that’s what’s needed to win these days.