Fulton’s West Syd plan success or failure ??

[lsz]

I am not sure why it matters where a player is from at all. To me that is short sighted and rather simplistic

Melbourne famously recruit the player that fits their culture. In many ways considering out relatively small local comp we are not that dissimilar to Melbourne in how we need to recruit to fill gaps in our teams.


The lack of an effective front office for lord knows how long has resulted in a lack of long term thinking and the failure to have a clear culture / identity

We saw this when a number of players were cut / not retained in the Barrett years (Lane, Ramien, Hynes, Gutho, Lussick, Verilles to name a few) without a clear understanding of the "person" we were having on the team.

If i were to speculate on why this is the case you would think there has only been on consistent since 2011 at the club and that is the ownership structure.

 

[Woodsie]

I'm trying very hard to come up with one single reason why you would invest anything in developing juniors ... instead of just buying off the self fully grown ... trying and failing ..

Latu Fainu will have cost us a million before he even plays 1st grade .... with no guarantee he will ...

 

[Nordburg]

I'm trying very hard to come up with one single reason why you would invest anything in developing juniors ... instead of just buying off the self fully grown ... trying and failing ..

Latu Fainu will have cost us a million before he even plays 1st grade .... with no guarantee he will ...

Is Penrith a single reason?

 

[Woodsie]

Is Penrith a single reason?

I see you Melb .. and raise you Easts ..

also I don't think Penrith, unlike us, are paying many kids to go there .. most already live there and have homes and schools in the area .. with the odd kid from the bush

 

[Nordburg]

I see you Melb .. and raise you Easts ..

also I don't think Penrith, unlike us, are paying many kids to go there .. most already live there and have homes and schools in the area .. with the odd kid from the bush

Penrith have developed a conveyor belt of juniors so when the likes of Crichton and Burton move on,they just fill the spots with cheaper younger versions.They’ve got 3 GF’s and 2 Premierships out of it and no end in sight,so far.

 

[double hoops]

If your local area has been neglected. That’s just not the same issue as West Sydney where the club have clearly been recruiting from not being a success.

Penrith way is the biggest League nursery in Australia. Our club is negligent if they don’t have a program in place to tap into that amount of players.

The Question has to be asked? Has Qld been neglected? Country NSW? Pacific Islands? New Zealand? England? Poaching Rugby Union? Mars..

It’s a results driven business and I don’t know bout you, but my expectation of Mr Penn is he provides the resources for the club to search the world to make our team the best.

Many of our clubs greatest where did we get them from? it’s not playing in the local comp. Bozo, Cliffy, Ridge, the Stewart Brothers, DCE, Foz, Killer, Matai, Hasler, Ward.

Very few champs since the comp became National and not just a Sydney / NSW comp would be locals.

I know you guys and girls are called the insular peninsula for a reason, but the whole concept of local grown talent is just a bull**** argument that has just never existed in recent decades.

Correct me if I am wrong, but think even Mestrov May have accepted that the local teams and comp may not have been as connected, with the Sea Eagles as much as they could be. Call it Neglected.

But that’s just not the same discussion as bitching about the good work the club have done in looking further afield.

 

[Woodsie]

Penrith have developed a conveyor belt of juniors so when the likes of Crichton and Burton move on,they just fill the spots with cheaper younger versions.They’ve got 3 GF’s and 2 Premierships out of it and no end in sight,so far.

Yes .. but they aren't having to buy 14 year olds, bring them to Sydney, pay for their schooling and accommodation and paying them for years ...

 

[Shoe1]

I'm trying very hard to come up with one single reason why you would invest anything in developing juniors ... instead of just buying off the self fully grown ... trying and failing ..

Latu Fainu will have cost us a million before he even plays 1st grade .... with no guarantee he will ...

Uncle Nick says hi

 

[LeonardCohen]

I'm trying very hard to come up with one single reason why you would invest anything in developing juniors ... instead of just buying off the self fully grown ... trying and failing ..

Latu Fainu will have cost us a million before he even plays 1st grade .... with no guarantee he will ...

I can think of one...

The only way you'll get seriously good footballers to don a Manly jumper, is to get them early, make them happy and hope they'll stay. We just do not have the pulling power to compete with the glamour clubs.

Manly is just not a desirable place for off-contract stars. They'll go to the Roosters, Souths, Melbourne, etc. However, if we bring them through our system and they call us home, some of them just might stay.

Personally, I think it's our only hope of competing. Unless you're cashed up, a talented crop of juniors is the only way to assemble a serious roster.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Yes .. but they aren't having to buy 14 year olds, bring them to Sydney, pay for their schooling and accommodation and paying them for years ...

Neither do we. Of the Western Sydney collective (outside of Koula who attended Newington College) they went through the free public school system. Further, a bus commuted the Western Sydney juniors from Fairfield to Narrabean so no accommodation was provided.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Probably the same reason we got blackballed using the Sunshine Coast. It was proving too successful for us so the NRL (Greenturd) deemed it wasn't in the best interests of the game.

And gave that area to the Melbourne Storm

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Honestly like someone said above , why spend gazillions on juniors who just get poached by the Rorters.

Do **** all and poach everyone else’s !!

 

[Tomay]

Sunshine Coast was the perfect fit. You grow up there, ya move to Manly and you appreciate the life there. It’s an attractive proposition.

Travelling 90+ minutes to see your family and go to church when you’re not even that fussed on the beach or local lifestyle is actually a detraction.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Liam Knight

Mortein Boy not a Manly junior. He is a Central Coast product.

 

[Uk eagle]

Penrith have developed a conveyor belt of juniors so when the likes of Crichton and Burton move on,they just fill the spots with cheaper younger versions.They’ve got 3 GF’s and 2 Premierships out of it and no end in sight,so far.

And that is the way to be successful. In a salary capped sport you have to be constantly promoting players from within and when too many of them become too expensive you allow them to move on because their replacement is already there (and you're not afraid to give them a go). Bringing in already high value players upsets the balance of the team

 

[Adz]

Love it! Lets go out and collect a bunch of cells from the country, New Zealand and even some from the Western Suburbs and throw them into a Sea Eagles local junior petri dish and develop that winning culture again.TMhT

Love it! Lets go out and collect a bunch of cells from the country, New Zealand and even some from the Western Suburbs and throw them into a Sea Eagles local junior petri dish and develop that winning culture again.

They did that this year in the Matt's and Ball side and they got regularly smashed and people then proceed to whine about the juniors this year.
There will be some really good players come through from those sides but people on here need to look at some of the individual talent coming through and forget the wins and losses in the juniors.

 

[Seagles68]

They did that this year in the Matt's and Ball side and they got regularly smashed and people then proceed to whine about the juniors this year.
There will be some really good players come through from those sides but people on here need to look at some of the individual talent coming through and forget the wins and losses in the juniors.

If we're going to send our scouts out to those areas (and our local kids), I dare say we'd have to give them more than a year to show some progress.

 

[KNUCKLES]

Bayley Simonsson was born at MV Hospital. Not sure on how much junior football (if any) he played on the NB.
Hopoate Son No.3.

I believe simonsson played for Cromer or harbord

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I am not sure why it matters where a player is from at all. To me that is short sighted and rather simplistic

Melbourne famously recruit the player that fits their culture. In many ways considering out relatively small local comp we are not that dissimilar to Melbourne in how we need to recruit to fill gaps in our teams.


The lack of an effective front office for lord knows how long has resulted in a lack of long term thinking and the failure to have a clear culture / identity

We saw this when a number of players were cut / not retained in the Barrett years (Lane, Ramien, Hynes, Gutho, Lussick, Verilles to name a few) without a clear understanding of the "person" we were having on the team.

If i were to speculate on why this is the case you would think there has only been on consistent since 2011 at the club and that is the ownership structure.

Ultimately, I don't think it is so much about where a given player is from, but rather that a system / environment exists to farm, target, support, engage and harvest local players.

For us specifically, I think the ratio of local : outsourced is important to control, ill get to that..

One thing is that it is unsustainable to try cash in on western sydney products when there are around 8 other sydney teams. [i.e see the outdated 'nrl team map' image at the bottom of this post]

But there's a fair few issues that come to mind from > outsourcing when it comes to young local sports teams

Notably, buying young players and injecting them into local teams can make the sport too serious at a time when it should be just about having fun (I have experienced a bit of this one).

• Local junior teams are competitive. Like anything unregulated, there will be those exploiting 'the system', enticing players from larger metropolitan or western development areas just to get / stay on top.
• With Manly's development model turning it's eye to the West, local junior teams were encouraged to keep stacking their squads with outside talent
• Less responsibility to develop players + have fun

It goes unsaid that a model like this could lead to less local engagement

• Many local juniors are just playing for fun at junior levels, until it becomes too serious
• Less regulation in local comps = > teams with manopoly = < competitive competitions = < local players and teams = more games further away = < local local players again...

Also, it's highly unlikely outsourced teenagers supported and/or understood the club;

• Likely to lack any deep-rooted investment in the club, its culture and tradition.
• Loyalty to the manager, instead of the team (we've seen this alot with Tartak's clients)
• It's much easier to instill the 'manly mentality' into young, impressionable manly fans than those getting bussed over at young ages for $ and a promise of opportunity

And finally, there's also the problem of maintaining an 'equal playing field', or putting all development eggs into a select few baskets

• Greater outsourcing = greater financial investment in young players = greater conflict of interest in picking/developing players
  • In theory... I haven't been around to see it this one in practice

That's my unvalidated take on why it's not a great development model

That said, there's different issues too. Notably, there's a major lack of marketing regarding junior footy across the Northern Beaches. If anyone was serious about development, it would be shoved in our faces... All. The. Time.

 

[Thewestisbest]

Out

Ultimately, I don't think it is so much about where a given player is from, but rather that a system / environment exists to farm, target, support, engage and harvest local players.

Specifically, I think the ratio of local : outsourced is most important, ill get to that..

One thing is that it is unsustainable to try cash in on western sydney products when there are around 8 other sydney teams. [i.e see the outdated 'nrl team map' image at the bottom of this post]

But there's a fair few issues that come to mind from > outsourcing when it comes to young local sports teams

Notably, buying young players and injecting them into local teams can make the sport too serious at a time when it should be just about having fun (I have experienced a bit of this one).

• Local junior teams are competitive. Like anything unregulated, there will be those exploiting 'the system', enticing players from larger metropolitan or western development areas just to get / stay on top.
• With Manly's development model turning it's eye to the West, local junior teams were encouraged to keep stacking their squads with outside talent
• Less responsibility to develop players + have fun

It goes unsaid that a model like this could lead to less local engagement

• Many local juniors are just playing for fun at junior levels, until it becomes too serious
• Less regulation in local comps = > teams with manopoly = < competitive competitions = < local players and teams = more games further away = < local local players again...

Also, it's highly unlikely outsourced teenagers supported and/or understood the club;

• Likely to lack any deep-rooted investment in the club, its culture and tradition.
• Loyalty to the manager, instead of the team (we've seen this alot with Tartak's clients)
• It's much easier to instill the 'manly mentality' into young, impressionable manly fans than those getting bussed over at young ages for $ and a promise of opportunity

And finally, there's also the problem of maintaining an 'equal playing field', or putting all development eggs into a select few baskets

• Greater outsourcing = greater financial investment in young players = greater conflict of interest in picking/developing players
  • In theory... I haven't been around to see it this one in practice

That's my unvalidated take on why it's not a great model

Out here, in the Greater West, the problem you raise is overcome by grading the players into junior teams and divisions. The vast majority of kids out this way have fun trying to win their respective competitions, they aren't too fussed on playing in a participation award team. But they do have those teams available for the small number of boys who aren't keen on the rough stuff and the biff.

My son plays C grade. He has a crack but didn't inherit his mother's athletic ability.