How to improve ? Positives and Negatives !!

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Actually, all are great posts .
2 must haves for 2024
-specialist Hooker whether its GT or Mamazoulus (Souffs) or whoever we need a new one (and if it is GT lets get him in at 14 now and see how he goes FFS!! its not like the result really matters at this point, but he needs to be blooded so we can see if there is potential at least ).This is critical the way the game is played now you need that dynamic 9 who is dangerous from that position on the field and who gets those big forwards onto the ball at pace .The opposition are already on our forwards when they get the ball compounding our lack of meters and space for anything other than trick shots, Croker at 9 as good as he is just doesnt have the extra that is needed to get us to the next level.
-Lodge or someone like him -Lodge has made a visible difference when on the field ( I think he we should support him by extending his train and trial and give him a chance next year at a good price for us once fit)
Other thoughts
- I also think Koula is a better option at FB than Garrick tbh if TT isn't there
-I get everyone wants to get rid of deadwood ,but you have to be able to replace them .On that note why not give 1 or 2 of the BWSE FRs a go on the bench .Not many rate him on here but every time I have seen BWSE live Austin Dias has really gone pretty good.
-BWSE graduate Dean Matterson has been going pretty well since given the opportunity ,its a pity he is not a 9,but the point is he has risen to the occasion ,I think.
-Lastly I can see some green shoots with Burbo who I thought went pretty well last night and should get better if he can stay on the park.
-The Schu being the enigma he is, 1 try and 1 try assist last night , I think needs to get more involved and as LC said needs to play whats in front of him and run a bit more and the likes of Burbo need to follow him around
That was hard watching last night there should have been 2 extra bins with Tapou tackling Koula without the ball and JWH grubby late shot on Jurbo (who should have stayed down) anyways ,as always Go Manly

Even if we signed one of the Brailey brothers or even Sam Verrils, I'd be happy! A natural 9!

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

The negative for me is Schuster. His ability is unbelievable. When I first saw him....WE HAVE A NEW GLENN STEWART????? I couldn't have been more hopeful of him. But last night was the classic. He did nothing for the first 60mins. Lazy tackling, doesn't run the ball. Then the game is over and we produce 2 or 3 things of pure brilliance.

It's just not good enough. We cannot pay (well a backrower next year) $800k to do this.

Again compare him to Glenn Stewart. Glenn would have won the Dally M in 2011 if not for the brawl of brookie (someone may correct me, but he was definitely top 3). Gifts tackle count everygame would have been 20-30. His creativity was incredible. He ran the ball, he did the tough stuff.

Please Schuster....get some old footage of this!

As a 5/8, he is a bit like Phil Blake. Great individual talent, but to date not an organising style of half. Phil was used by Manly mainly at halfback in 1st grade, but he came into grade at 5/8. There was no way he was going to displace Alan Thompson from the latter role in 1982.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Even if we signed one of the Brailey brothers or even Sam Verrils, I'd be happy! A natural 9!

I gather Verrills doesn’t want to play for his former senior club, i.e. Manly.

 

[Carl]

A lot of ppl seem to have schu in the second row next year but what we heard when brooks signed sounded more like lock to me. I think it will be schu at 13 and Jake into the prop rotation.

 

[manlyfan76]

It just absolutely baffles me how Hasler and now Seibold could possibly think that signing or re- signing plodders like Aloiai, Woods, Keppie, Taulagi, Condon, Sipley, could possibly compete with this Panthers forward pack. Since 2020 we should've been concentrating on young , fast, mobile powerful forwards even if it meant a couple of years in the bottom 4. The Broncos did it and now they are getting the rewards. As a club we are just so dumb, clueless and out of touch.

The Panthers play literally twice as fast as Manly.
Every hit up is fast. Every tackle they move up fast.
Every attacking movement is fast.

We have zero players who would be able to keep up.
On-top of that they are so well coached and drilled that your lucky to spot one player out of place in 80 mins

 

[double hoops]

A lot of ppl seem to have schu in the second row next year but what we heard when brooks signed sounded more like lock to me. I think it will be schu at 13 and Jake into the prop rotation.

Just watching the shoe play this year. There has to be a real question mark over the shoes playing future in rugby league full stop.

Just how big and quickly his decline in 2023 and what has been on display this year. His issue or issues just appear to be something way bigger than any position on the field.

Perhaps some time away from the game is what he needs.

 

[Oligarch]

I think in the fullness of time we will realise that Crocker has done well as a makeshift 9, but really we should have bitten the bullet long ago and recruited / bought a specialist 9. Too important a position. But think he will eventually make a brilliant 14 when we are mugged by reality.

While as a pairing DCE / Brooks is a great halves pairing, agree with the view that the money would have been better spent on a genuine 9, and another prime front rower. I have seen enough manly games to realise we cant long term play make our way out of not getting over the advantage line or holding our own in the ruck. I fear we will start off ok next season, but as we have unavoidable injuries up front, we will find ourselves in a similar position next year. Having a quick backline, but behind a pack that, not their fault, are unable to match it upfront.

 

[HK_Eagle]

I think in the fullness of time we will realise that Crocker has done well as a makeshift 9, but really we should have bitten the bullet long ago and recruited / bought a specialist 9. Too important a position. But think he will eventually make a brilliant 14 when we are mugged by reality.

While as a pairing DCE / Brooks is a great halves pairing, agree with the view that the money would have been better spent on a genuine 9, and another prime front rower. I have seen enough manly games to realise we cant long term play make our way out of not getting over the advantage line or holding our own in the ruck. I fear we will start off ok next season, but as we have unavoidable injuries up front, we will find ourselves in a similar position next year. Having a quick backline, but behind a pack that, not their fault, are unable to match it upfront.

Disagree slightly. Brooks is an astute buy. The excess wasted on Schu, The Preacher and Jake is where our specialised dummy half and prime front rower money is lost.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Our current forwards as individual players are each capable of playing a role in a decent pack - if there was at least one more gun forward amongst them.
Seibold has made his call by extending Schuster and signing Brooks. Means we need Schuster to become a gun forward, but ... as it stands he is just as likely to make the pack weaker. Which is a big problem!

Possible improvers we've got are Burbo Bull Condon and I suppose Sykes. Fulton? Matterson? But the jury's still out on all of those. So I reckon we'll be looking to sign a couple of athletic hard-working types with ambition and attitude, to intensify competition for spots, and (hopefully) drive overall improvement. Not sure what other options we have, realistically.

 

[Sheikheagle]

Even if we signed one of the Brailey brothers or even Sam Verrils, I'd be happy! A natural 9!
[/QUOTE

The braileys and verrils get injured nearly as much as turbo. No thanks

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Our current forwards as individual players are each capable of playing a role in a decent pack - if there was at least one more gun forward amongst them.
Seibold has made his call by extending Schuster and signing Brooks. Means we need Schuster to become a gun forward, but ... as it stands he is just as likely to make the pack weaker. Which is a big problem!

Possible improvers we've got are Burbo Bull Condon and I suppose Sykes. Fulton? Matterson? But the jury's still out on all of those. So I reckon we'll be looking to sign a couple of athletic hard-working types with ambition and attitude, to intensify competition for spots, and (hopefully) drive overall improvement. Not sure what other options we have, realistically.

Yes exactly , meaning quite a few of those won’t be here in 2024.

There just has to be a bunch of “ reasonable “ forwards running around in Q Cup / NSW Cup that can’t get a start anywhere .

Oh sure Seibold will be lamblasted on here for not signing 4/5 superstars but we all know why that’s not possible.

So he needs to find 2-3 rough diamonds , who are prepared to work hard and yes put pressure on the others.

If we are signing Lodge ( as I read ) he won’t be available for the first month or two , maybe 3 so we are going to need a replacement for him at least.

So maybe a Prop , and two edge’s to put pressure on Tuilagi / Schuster , clearly Ola not under pressure.

For next year

Run on game 1

Paseka / Croker / Jurbo
Tuilagi / Ola
Schuster

Bench

Bullemor
Burbo ( only because of his flexibility)
Back up hooker ???
AOA ( only because there’s no one else )

If we get another reasonable Prop , and a couple of Edge forwards then they are putting pressure on for the other bench Prop , and the run on Edge / Lock.

 

[jbb/james]

Yes exactly , meaning quite a few of those won’t be here in 2024.

There just has to be a bunch of “ reasonable “ forwards running around in Q Cup / NSW Cup that can’t get a start anywhere .

Oh sure Seibold will be lamblasted on here for not signing 4/5 superstars but we all know why that’s not possible.

So he needs to find 2-3 rough diamonds , who are prepared to work hard and yes put pressure on the others.

If we are signing Lodge ( as I read ) he won’t be available for the first month or two , maybe 3 so we are going to need a replacement for him at least.

So maybe a Prop , and two edge’s to put pressure on Tuilagi / Schuster , clearly Ola not under pressure.

For next year

Run on game 1

Paseka / Croker / Jurbo
Tuilagi / Ola
Schuster

Bench

Bullemor
Burbo ( only because of his flexibility)
Back up hooker ???
AOA ( only because there’s no one else )

If we get another reasonable Prop , and a couple of Edge forwards then they are putting pressure on for the other bench Prop , and the run on Edge / Lock.

Only guessing but the lack of movement on bullys contract and his position in the pecking order suggests to me he wont be here

maybe if we unload keppie, thats the holdup, possibly its one or the other

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Only guessing but the lack of movement on bullys contract and his position in the pecking order suggests to me he wont be here

maybe if we unload keppie, thats the holdup, possibly its one or the other

Yes , I think Bullemor has been pretty good ( for a low ball cost ) and he’s certainly improved.

I’d imagine Keppie is being unloaded ( but that might be harder than we think ) , honestly it’ll be pretty interesting to see who rolls up to training in November.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yes , I think Bullemor has been pretty good ( for a low ball cost ) and he’s certainly improved.

I’d imagine Keppie is being unloaded ( but that might be harder than we think ) , honestly it’ll be pretty interesting to see who rolls up to training in November.

Bull runs the ball well but lacks aggression as a middle and lacks a pass as an edge.
Keppie has aggression but not a lot of impact with the ball and makes more errors.
Keppie would be on higher deal, that would be the only incentive for preferring to move him on. Even so it would depend who we could replace them with, no point getting someone worse than what we've got.
If we are seriously planning on playing Schu in the pack then we really need to add an all-action non-stop goer type. Does Reuben Cotter have a sister (or brother?)

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Bull runs the ball well but lacks aggression as a middle and lacks a pass as an edge.
Keppie has aggression but not a lot of impact with the ball and makes more errors.
Keppie would be on higher deal, that would be the only incentive for preferring to move him on. Even so it would depend who we could replace them with, no point getting someone worse than what we've got.
If we are seriously planning on playing Schu in the pack then we really need to add an all-action non-stop goer type. Does Reuben Cotter have a sister (or brother?)

He’s certainly a goer that’s for sure , one like that would be perfect.

 

[jbb/james]

Bull runs the ball well but lacks aggression as a middle and lacks a pass as an edge.
Keppie has aggression but not a lot of impact with the ball and makes more errors.
Keppie would be on higher deal, that would be the only incentive for preferring to move him on. Even so it would depend who we could replace them with, no point getting someone worse than what we've got.
If we are seriously planning on playing Schu in the pack then we really need to add an all-action non-stop goer type. Does Reuben Cotter have a sister (or brother?)

Good summary

both are decent players but neither really fill the most important roles of a prop
both do bits

 

[Hibyemama]

Who else do the Tigers have that we could sign?

Api ? he could ask for am early release

 

[Hibyemama]

we should get ben hunt and get rid of dce.

 

[mosto]

Yes exactly , meaning quite a few of those won’t be here in 2024.

There just has to be a bunch of “ reasonable “ forwards running around in Q Cup / NSW Cup that can’t get a start anywhere .

Oh sure Seibold will be lamblasted on here for not signing 4/5 superstars but we all know why that’s not possible.

So he needs to find 2-3 rough diamonds , who are prepared to work hard and yes put pressure on the others.

If we are signing Lodge ( as I read ) he won’t be available for the first month or two , maybe 3 so we are going to need a replacement for him at least.

So maybe a Prop , and two edge’s to put pressure on Tuilagi / Schuster , clearly Ola not under pressure.

For next year

Run on game 1

Paseka / Croker / Jurbo
Tuilagi / Ola
Schuster

Bench

Bullemor
Burbo ( only because of his flexibility)
Back up hooker ???
AOA ( only because there’s no one else )

If we get another reasonable Prop , and a couple of Edge forwards then they are putting pressure on for the other bench Prop , and the run on Edge / Lock.

Pretty much agree with that mate. Only I'd give Burbo a crack at left edge ahead of Tuilagi as I think he's shown improvement in his limited chances this year and has more potential upside and hopefully he can regain some of the lower grade connection he had with Schu. Backup hooker I think it will be time to give GCKT a go. We need to sign at least one middle forward and looking at who's off contract according to Zero Tackle my preference would be Thompson/McLean/Brown, however the cap may mean some one like Moeroa is more realistic. Resigning Aloiai was a ridiculous move IMO and has hamstrung us a bit. However a bench (when all available) of GCKT/Bully/Moeroa/Sippers would be ok.