Post-Game Discussion Manly v Broncos [Round 10, 2023]

[Tslog]

Huomole is our best player by a mile, and has been for weeks, if not longer.

Why is it that DCE literally had nothing to do with our best attacks all night? Turbo threw 2 passes that DCE hasn’t done in years.
Manly has the best right edge in the game, but DCE non-existent passing games is a black Hole for our Right side attack. Huamole & Koula have to do it all by themselves. Then you add in Cooper Johns wh has zero attacking game, and that is a massive problem for both halves.

Whens Latu Fainu available ? DCE needs to be dumped ASAP.

 

[Sheikheagle]

Not sure having another underweight smaller 13 would help how often we are smashed in the forwards.

If you look at the smaller 13's (Murry, Radley) they have pretty quick play the balls - have not really seen that with Burbo or Parks

We haven’t seen enough of Burbo to see what his play the balls are like. He is 105kg so hardly small. Murray is 95 and Yeo 106.

 

[Carl]

In the first half, we couldn't compete with the team at the top of the table. That's less disappointing than how we played against the knights, tigers and titans. I don't know what happened against the storm, but other than that, we haven't played well since we beat the eels and should have beaten the bunnies. What do those games have in common?

We need more than one guy running the attack. DCE has been leading by example, trying hard and playing great; passing to ola and kicking for ola and saab are good moves but they only work if there is something else going on the rest of the time.

We need to get some games with Schuster at 5/8 and maybe GCKT off the bench (when he becomes available) and see whether everything else clicks into place around them. Remember how turbo made everyone else look like superstars in 2021? I think we have a similar situation now but with a different player. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

In the meantime, I think Weekes at 5/8 would give us more balance than Johns. I think Johns would work much better as a SOO replacement for DCE than he does as his halves partner.

TLDR: be patient and try not to pass judgement on 2023 at the start of May.

 

[Budgie]

Huomole is our best player by a mile, and has been for weeks, if not longer.

Why is it that DCE literally had nothing to do with our best attacks all night? Turbo threw 2 passes that DCE hasn’t done in years.
Manly has the best right edge in the game, but DCE non-existent passing games is a black Hole for our Right side attack. Huamole & Koula have to do it all by themselves. Then you add in Cooper Johns wh has zero attacking game, and that is a massive problem for both halves.

Whens Latu Fainu available ? DCE needs to be dumped ASAP.

9.20 am and you're drunk already?

 

[Bearfax]

Interesting about DCE being quiet.
Wonder if that was partly due to being exhausted from trying to do everything else.

Still can't believe his forwards left him to make so many tackles. Even if the Broncos were directing traffic at him they should have protected their halfback!

Add to that he was the only player giving us attacking opportunities no wonder that was a disaster of a game.

Diminishes his play. Woods did a lot of that grunt work when he came on (34 tackles and one miss in 40 minutes...not bad and some are knocking him) but Jake has left a big hole and Croker, the other big tackler, has been off his game for weeks. Injured?

 

[lsz]

We haven’t seen enough of Burbo to see what his play the balls are like. He is 105kg so hardly small. Murray is 95 and Yeo 106.

Fair call

Considering the way the season is going it is worth a look

 

[LeonardCohen]

In the first half, we couldn't compete with the team at the top of the table. That's less disappointing than how we played against the knights, tigers and titans. I don't know what happened against the storm, but other than that, we haven't played well since we beat the eels and should have beaten the bunnies. What do those games have in common?

We need more than one guy running the attack. DCE has been leading by example, trying hard and playing great; passing to ola and kicking for ola and saab are good moves but they only work if there is something else going on the rest of the time.

We need to get some games with Schuster at 5/8 and maybe GCKT off the bench (when he becomes available) and see whether everything else clicks into place around them. Remember how turbo made everyone else look like superstars in 2021? I think we have a similar situation now but with a different player. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

In the meantime, I think Weekes at 5/8 would give us more balance than Johns. I think Johns would work much better as a SOO replacement for DCE than he does as his halves partner.

TLDR: be patient and try not to pass judgement on 2023 at the start of May.

We had a 50% completion rate and were monstered in the forwards. The attack and who is running it, does not account for our first half performance. We were beaten in every aspect of the game. A tweak to the attack is not going to fix what keeps happening each week, i.e. losing the ruck on both sides of the ball.

In the second half, we turned up with more intent and the Broncos cruised to victory, so still not great signs. Of course, DCE could do with a better 6 outside him but the attack will come when we fatigue the opposition by winning the ruck and field position. The reason so many half chances faltered in the second half, was because the Broncos were fresh from cruising against our lucklustre pack and could find the energy for those second efforts. That in turn, started to frustrate guys like Turbo, who began throwing the miracle pass.

I'm sure there are aspects of the attack to iron out, but the clunky nature of it and our inability to score points is largely a byproduct of how badly beaten we are in the middle each week. It's really hard to be smooth and purposeful in attack, when you're fatigued from so much defence (50% completion means you're turning the ball over a lot) and you attack off slow play-the-balls and the opposition can just pick you off. We will not win the ruck consistently with such a slow forward pack and no recognised 9.

 

[ManlyTragic]

9.20 am and you're drunk already?

…. Well it only 9.20am…. maybe he is still drunk!! Gees ever heard of a bender?

Just sayin’

 

[Carl]

We had a 50% completion rate and were monstered in the forwards. The attack and who is running it, does not account for our first half performance. We were beaten in every aspect of the game. A tweak to the attack is not going to fix what keeps happening each week, i.e. losing the ruck on both sides of the ball.

In the second half, we turned up with more intent and the Broncos cruised to victory, so still not great signs. Of course, DCE could do with a better 6 outside him but the attack will come when we fatigue the opposition by winning the ruck and field position. The reason so many half chances faltered in the second half, was because the Broncos were fresh from cruising against our lucklustre pack and could find the energy for those second efforts.

I agree that we lost the first half (and the game was over by the second half) off the back of way too many mistakes but we had less mistakes in the second half and still couldn't score except through a bit of turbo brilliance at the death. I'd say we need to fix the mistakes and the team balance.

 

[Rocky]

Diminishes his play. Woods did a lot of that grunt work when he came on (34 tackles and one miss in 40 minutes...not bad and some are knocking him) but Jake has left a big hole and Croker, the other big tackler, has been off his game for weeks. Injured?

Croker is playing injured for sure.

 

[LeonardCohen]

I agree that we lost the first half (and the game was over by the second half) off the back of way too many mistakes but we had less mistakes in the second half and still couldn't score except through a bit of turbo brilliance at the death. I'd say we need to fix the mistakes and the team balance.

Yes, but there's an explanation for why the attack was still off in the second half. It's to do with winning/losing the ruck, our fatigue and the lack of fatigue in the opposition. There were many half chances in the 2nd half last night where Saab and Olaka'atu found space, and there was a half chance on the left edge that was thwarted by a try saving tackle on the Broncos line. Their scramble was really good and shut down so many half chances because they were handling our middle comfortably and were not fatigued. Attack looks good when you win the ruck, get a quick play-the-ball and are on the front foot. We rarely attacked off any ruck speed so it gives the appearance that we are ineffective in our choices with the ball. The reality is, you need to stretch the defence to find holes and space out wide. Otherwise, the attack is relying solely on tackle breaks to spark something because the opposition defence is set, moving up and shutting down options. It's misleading when you see clunky attack. You think it's the person with the ball and the runners outside them making poor choices, the reality is, there are no choices to make because the defence is set and comfortable.

I am sure there are still aspects of our attack to tweak but I would be more concerned if we were winning the middle and struggling to score points, but we aren't even giving our attack a chance. Barely lumbering over the advantage line before rising slowly to play-the-ball back to Croker to stand and dish off sideways, is no basis for creating momentum in the middle on which the attack can sing The problem is the middle and until it's fixed, we will continue to look clunky and out of ideas.

It's unfair to compare Croker to Cam Smith but if you watch what Scam used to do, he was a master at 'sucking in defenders' around the middle of the ruck. He will take the markers out of play and run a forward into the space behind the ruck, get a quick play-the-ball and riffle the ball to one of his halves who were already of the ad line when they got the ball. We dish off slowly to Paseka or Jake T and they run one off into the teeth of the defence, before rising slowly and we do it all again. Early in the first half, Croker actually did get a forward into a one on one situation close to line and drew in a right edge defender, and do you know what he did next? Passed the ball off the ruck in the very opposite direction to where he just created space.

 

[Once Was Brissie Kid]

This is one weird & disappointing Manly team. The games vs Storm, Eels & Souths show if they somehow can be in the top 8 when the finals arrive and have the best 13 on deck, Manly can actually string 3 wins in a row to reach a grand final and then who knows.

Manly are now paying at $34 to win the grand final. You'd reckon that $ amount will keep going up until after Schuster comes back, after the end of Origin and after DCE realises he can pass to the right-hand side of our team.

Am i a silly optimist. Yeah, probably. But i have faith (blind faith?) in Schuster and Manly.

 

[master blaster]

I think it's time for Tommy to take a rest.
Koula has experience playing FB so I'd put him at 1 until Tom is close to 100%.
I'd also bring in Tui at centre over Parker.

1. Koula
2. Vaega
3. Garrick
4. Tuipolutu
5. Saab

Yep, he looked like he didnt want to be there

 

[manly al]

Was never going to happen in the i st half for Manly with that limited possession and constantly putting themselves under pressure . Better in the 2 nd half but game was shot by then . Couldn "d doubt the commitment level and at least pleasing that Tuilagi went better again and Keppie certainly better . Real problem with Croker "s role in recent times , still putting in with defence but getting the side on the front foot in attack just not happening . Really have to move Alioia back to prop or the bench , just costing the side too much and killing momentum at crucial times . A make shift 6 also in the current mix also not helping Still a good nucleus of players who can make something happen , Haumole , Koula , Turbo , D C E , Schuster when he can finally provide something worthwhile but need all fit and firing to make the difference . Comprehensive loss on the scoreboard but did not seem to be that far off the Broncs for some long stances also . Still some major issues with edge defence and poor completion rates but a competitive grouping in there somewhere if a few things can be fixed particularly with the attacking plays . Jake would have made a difference last night but so would a fully match fit Schuster ..

 

[Once Was Brissie Kid]

Yes, but there's an explanation for why the attack was still off in the second half. It's to do with winning/losing the ruck, our fatigue and the lack of fatigue in the opposition. There were many half chances in the 2nd half last night where Saab and Olaka'atu found space, and there was a half chance on the left edge that was thwarted by a try saving tackle on the Broncos line. Their scramble was really good and shut down so many half chances because they were handling our middle comfortably and were not fatigued. Attack looks good when you win the ruck, get a quick play-the-ball and are on the front foot. We rarely attacked off any ruck speed so it gives the appearance that we are ineffective in our choices with the ball. The reality is, you need to stretch the defence to find holes and space out wide. Otherwise, the attack is relying solely on tackle breaks to spark something because the opposition defence is set, moving up and shutting down options. It's misleading when you see clunky attack. You think it's the person with the ball and the runners outside them making poor choices, the reality is, there are no choices to make because the defence is set and comfortable.

I am sure there are still aspects of our attack to tweak but I would be more concerned if we were winning the middle and struggling to score points, but we aren't even giving our attack a chance. Barely lumbering over the advantage line before rising slowly to play-the-ball back to Croker to stand and dish off sideways, is no basis for creating momentum in the middle, on which the attack can sing from. The problem is the middle and until it's fixed, we will continue to look clunky and out of ideas.

100% agree with this. Its what makes NRL 2023 rubbish.
The current rules and officiating amplify the differences between two teams when one gets behind and all the momentum is going the other way.
All the refereeing favours the team in possession, especially if they are showing any momentum - the refs actually respond to it and make it worse for the team trying somehow to reach for anything while its drowning.
Don't jump off the line early, don't tackle too hard and get a slow play the ball.
Ping! Six again! ffs!
It leads to blow outs and then fans and commentators saying the beaten team had a poor attitude and has no heart.
Its fatigue that's doing it. Its the NRL that's doing it.
Its not rugby league.
Its junk ball.

 

[LeonardCohen]

This is one weird & disappointing Manly team. The games vs Storm, Eels & Souths show if they somehow can be in the top 8 when the finals arrive and have the best 13 on deck, Manly can actually string 3 wins in a row to reach a grand final and then who knows.

Manly are now paying at $34 to win the grand final. You'd reckon that $ amount will keep going up until after Schuster comes back, after the end of Origin and after DCE realises he can pass to the right-hand side of our team.

Am i a silly optimist. Yeah, probably. But i have faith (blind faith?) in Schuster and Manly.

To be fair, I don't think early season form is really an indication of how good a side is going to be when the business end of the season rolls around. Souths and Parramatta will be much harder to beat and play much better football as the season progresses, than they did the night they played us.

The Eels hadn't even got out of the blocks when we played them and have only warmed up these past couple of weeks. Souths were also a little flat to start the year, had a host of injuries and played well within themselves in that Golden Point win.

I tend to think the opposition had a lot to do with our start to the year and I don't see us being a remote chance of beating the top sides, even with a full squad and full intent. The roster is just not up to the same standard. Put it this way, if Souths and Manly both turn up and give 100%, we still lose. We would be relying on the opposition being off their game. Just the battle of the 9s (Croker and Cook) alone is night and day.

 

[JBW]

One of my main observations last night was the way, particularly in the first half, the Broncos would take three steps forward to play the ball meaning our markers had to readjust, yet we got called back several times. It constantly had us on the back foot.

Certainly not saying it cost us the game, but definitely helped with their momentum.

 

[Once Was Brissie Kid]

One of my main observations last night was the way, particularly in the first half, the Broncos would take three steps forward to play the ball meaning our markers had to readjust, yet we got called back several times. It constantly had us on the back foot.

Certainly not saying it cost us the game, but definitely helped with their momentum.

100%. There are some rules that they just ignore. If i was a NRL coach, i would study the tapes to work out what triggers a referee and what doesn't. Then i would have my team relentlessly trained in maximising that advantage.

There must be something subtly different about the way Manly is walking off the mark to what the Broncos are doing. If not, the NRL needs to be asked to explain it.

 

[JenEagle]

We have not had a recognised hooker in our squad since 2019. You actually couldn’t make that up.

 

[deanm]

To be fair, I don't think early season form is really an indication of how good a side is going to be when the business end of the season rolls around. Souths and Parramatta will be much harder to beat and play much better football as the season progresses, than they did the night they played us.

The Eels hadn't even got out of the blocks when we played them and have only warmed up these past couple of weeks. Souths were also a little flat to start the year, had a host of injuries and played well within themselves in that Golden Point win.

I tend to think the opposition had a lot to do with our start to the year and I don't see us being a remote chance of beating the top sides, even with a full squad and full intent. The roster is just not up to the same standard. Put it this way, if Souths and Manly both turn up and give 100%, we still lose. We would be relying on the opposition being off their game. Just the battle of the 9s (Croker and Cook) alone is night and day.

Although Parra have only beaten Dogs, Tigers and Knights in last month.