My off-season squad

[40 years an eagle]

I should have at least arent the right to speak my mind.

You have buddy but you keep repeating yourself ad nauseum. We heard you the first 50 times and you keep going on and on. Get it?

 

[madmax]

Sironen & Api definitely stay! Sironen has had 2 quite serious injuries, however when he's on he's one of our better forwards (in my opinion). Can't understand this dislike for him. Jake T has had a couple of serious injuries so do we consider him a liability? Tom T has had serious ankle injuries which are still on going...do we consider him a liability....how about Walker etc. It's easy to just say get rid of this guy or that guy & get this guy or that guy. Doesn't mean the 'new' players will be any better than what we have. Coach???? Don Singe needs to come back ASAP!!! Cliffy & Beaver need to be involved!!!
My tentative squad for 2019 with players currently under contract to Manly / B'town Workers:-

TOM TRBOJEVIC
JADE ANDERSON (great back up for Tom)
BRIAN KELLY
DYLAN WALKER
MOSES SULI
TOM WRIGHT (needs more game time)
DCE
JORGE TAUFUA
MANASE FAINU
TEVITA FUNA
TRENT HODKINSON
M WRIGHT
JACOB LOKO
JOHN FOLAU
MARTIN TAUPAU
API KOROISAU
AFB
CURTIS SIRONEN
JOEL THOMPSON
JAKE TRBOJEVIC
TRENT HODKINSON
KELEPI TANGINOA
TANIELA PASEKA
TOAFOFOA SIPLEY (get his brother also)
JACK GOSIEWSKI
FRANK WINTERSTEIN
TOM AMONE
TYLER CASSEL
IF RUMORS ARE TRUE > KANE ELGEY, BRYCE CARTWRIGHT........ANOTHER MONGREL PROP…….

 

[Holmsey]

I totally agree with your above point.
How about his woeful defensive positioning and tackling? He doesn't play as part of a defensive UNIT.

He isn't at his best but he can also use some more reliable wingers to help, better coaching and more experience. His defence is not as bad as most portray.

 

[Holmsey]

You have buddy but you keep repeating yourself ad nauseum. We heard you the first 50 times and you keep going on and on. Get it?

I keep repeating my self as do all the others who want Tom out of the fullback role. Sorry but to me that's a hypocritical comment. I'll repeat a comment if it fits the given discussion and in this case we are speaking about moving Tom which I dont think will ever and should not happen.

 

[mike walker]

I totally agree with your above point.
How about his woeful defensive positioning and tackling? He doesn't play as part of a defensive UNIT.

G'day all,I agree,apart from being relatively good under the high ball,a lot of his other defensive play is poor.The non tackles on Radley and Yo in the last two games were just embarrassing,(although he ain't Robinson Crusoe in the embarrassing missed tackle department).
cheers mike

 

[Disco]

Unless you are intending on signing Tedesco, RTS or Ponga, then Tom is our fullback

A lot of hyperbole about Ponga and yes he is having a great season, but it is his first season (as a fulltime starter) he'll dip in form and I doubt Knights fans will be calling him reserve grade quality or looking to shift him to the wing like some here

Tom is a little off form this year (still leading us in most attacking stats) but you don't go dumping or changing a players position based on a form slump. you work on addressing that slump.

He needs work on the defensive side of the game but we are still 3-4 years of him being in his prime, so relax and enjoy

 

[Tragic Eagle]

I believe that Turbo is a rare talent but I don't believe fullback is his best and natural position. In my experience Fullback is one of the hardest positions to play. It requires great positional play which for some is instinctive, strong defence where one on one tackles are almost never missed and a low error rate. In the modern game full backs have become far more involved in being ball players rather than running holes and creating overlaps. It appears to me that this is something Turbo is struggling with and this is why we see him often receive the ball too close to the ruck and running across field running his outside men out of space and at times throwing long passes that go forward. I'd like to see our coach get Turbo to play a more classic fullback role for a while. Fullbacks are like wine they get better with age ( and experience). Michael Gordon is an example of a full back that has played his best football in the later part of his career. As the saying goes - you can't put an old head on young shoulders. The pressure needs to be taken off Turbo and he needs to be given time to develop into a complete fullback.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

I have tried (unsuccessfully) to make this point before but, can someone explain to me why there is such a reliance on categorizing players into traditional positions, by both fans and coaches? I'm not trying to claim I know more than experts and others but I find it strange that while many other sports look to evolve their positional play and the roles of players to match their opponents, for most, rugby league seems stuck to the positions determined at its original breakaway from union. For most of us standard positions in sport are a necessity, it lets everyone know their role and gives teams a platform to play off - rather than descending into an under 6's scrum. But NRL players are career sports people, they spend a huge amount of time working on plays and team structure and should not be bound by these limitations.
So on Tom...He has been, and has the abilities to be an absolute weapon when used correctly as a fullback in attack (I'm willing to blame some poor tactics this season for damaging some of this potential) but in defense he can be a liability. Having time to learn the position is one thing but it's his size that is the biggest problem for me - it's harder for him to get to grubbers, he can't change direction and position himself as quickly as a smaller fullback would and his long limbs can cause problems when he gets tackled. Defensively he is probably better suited to the centre or wing but that would be a waste of his abilities in attack.
The way I see it, players have two roles; one in attack and one in defense. So give Tom the roles that highlight the best of his abilities and create team structures which aim to cover individuals strengths and weaknesses rather than trying to make players fit into predetermined positions. I think the best teams are already starting to do this. But, if you think I'm nuts then please tell me why.

 

[Kevinward777]

I totally agree with your above point.
How about his woeful defensive positioning and tackling? He doesn't play as part of a defensive UNIT.

I’m referring to what we have in our squad as of right now and who has already walked out the door... I just can’t see the benefit in getting rid of players like API and Siro and replacing them with unproven players, regardless of whether they have been injured or not. I also think we must have some room to sign players with the cap rise and the amount of players we’ve let walk out the door. The Rorters situation is just plain old ridiculous. If you add up the alleged contract value of their top 17 players players, there is virtually nothing left and they somehow sign Hall and Morris... it’s a joke.

 

[Woodsie]

Regardless of the reason(s) ... whether by design, Murphy's Law, poor planning or bad luck ... we have effectively operated at about $1.75* million under the cap this year ... this follows 2 years of basically not having Snake or Matai available ... say $1.3 million .... throw in a further handful of injuries ....

Next year will seem like Xmas .... if the only salary cap restriction we have is a salary cap fine of $350k

(*ie ... I made the $1.75mil up from ..... TPA's put into the cap $500k, Salary cap fine deduction $350k, Myles $500k, Hastings $300k, Lussick (nil contribution) $400k)

 

[40 years an eagle]

I’m referring to what we have in our squad as of right now and who has already walked out the door... I just can’t see the benefit in getting rid of players like API and Siro and replacing them with unproven players, regardless of whether they have been injured or not. I also think we must have some room to sign players with the cap rise and the amount of players we’ve let walk out the door. The Rorters situation is just plain old ridiculous. If you add up the alleged contract value of their top 17 players players, there is virtually nothing left and they somehow sign Hall and Morris... it’s a joke.

Mate, I understand where you are coming from but Sirro has only "proven" that he has played 9 games in 2 years and 3 of them have been very good. 700k for 3 very good games. Too much risk FOR US.

I'm happy to replace him with someone of equal cost but I believe at least one of Jetski, Tanga, Amone will be a better replacement.

Api is going to cost close to 500k PA to extend and I don't think it's money well-spent FOR US.

I like the idea of paying ahead to our "magnificent 6" and thus having money to buy the RIGHT 5/8 if the guys we have don't work out.

I would be happy to spend 2019 consolidating for 2020 and on.

Our roster is probably irrelevant anyways if the "club" doesn't get it's own sh!t sorted and provide the personel needed for it to perform at or near it's ability.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

How much are we paying Marty, looks like he might be gonski in 2019, so there’s another $700k or thereabouts.

 

[40 years an eagle]

How much are we paying Marty, looks like he might be gonski in 2019, so there’s another $700k or thereabouts.

650k apparently, but the media wankers raved on a few weeks ago that his 2019 portion is 850k. Maybe some clubs would pay the 850k, all would pay 650k, but I seriously doubt he is going anywhere anyways.

 

[Kevinward777]

Mate, I understand where you are coming from but Sirro has only "proven" that he has played 9 games in 2 years and 3 of them have been very good. 700k for 3 very good games. Too much risk FOR US.

I'm happy to replace him with someone of equal cost but I believe at least one of Jetski, Tanga, Amone will be a better replacement.

Api is going to cost close to 500k PA to extend and I don't think it's money well-spent FOR US.

I like the idea of paying ahead to our "magnificent 6" and thus having money to buy the RIGHT 5/8 if the guys we have don't work out.

I would be happy to spend 2019 consolidating for 2020 and on.

Our roster is probably irrelevant anyways if the "club" doesn't get it's own sh!t sorted and provide the personel needed for it to perform at or near it's ability.

I can see where you’re coming from man.

 

[40 years an eagle]

I can see where you’re coming from man.

Cheers.

 

[Top End Eagle]

I think the statement API being the most creative hooker in the game is the most telling. He is an instinctive raw weapon and would be the games best seventeen. He doesn't organise or create. He busts his gut and is fast and elusive.

On tom. He will be an Australian centre for the next ten years if played there alongside Mitchell. Mitchell came through as a fullback - that's where you play the freaks in the juniors because they get their hands on the ball all the time and win games against boys. I'd rather see a faster more agile player saving tries and igniting attacks. If that's tom Wright or jade anderson than the chance should be taken. Mitchell will be on a million a year soon and no chance he is going to shift Tedesco at the roosters. Wright without the constant defensive pressure at centre or six might be one of the best we can imagine. He has the creative nous from his schoolboy five eighth days and speed to burn.

 

[HoldenV8]

Don't agree, you keep Tom at fullback and have him play a fullback role, instead of always taking the ball and stifling the backline. A good coach will get Tom doing the right things, i feel trent has him too much involved. He was developing fine until this year.

As I said in another thread, the biggest problem this year is the lack of a 5/8. Tom Trbojevic is more often than not being forced to forgo his running game from fullback to be an extra play maker because Barrett insists on playing 3 centres.

Last year he was rated the best fullback in the NRL (other than the Slater bias come the Dally M's) because with a quality pivot in Blake Green he was allowed to actually play fullback, not play both the fullback and 5/8 play making roles. Give Manly a decent 5/8 (or just play DCE at 5/8 and Hodko at half) and Tom will be back to at least the level we saw him in 2017.

But to put him on the wing or even in the centres? That might work with the talent across the park available to NSW Origin and the Kangaroos, but not at Manly.....its a pure waste of his talent.

 

[HoldenV8]

I'm not going to go so far as to try and come up with a fantasy 30 player squad. But from the players I know we are keeping, possibly keeping and the possible U/20s coming into the squad, I will name a possible top 17, plus some fringe players.

Of course, if we do manage to sign any one decent, this will change.

FB - Tom Trbojevic
WG - Jorge Taufua
CE - Dylan Walker
CE - Brian Kelly
WG - Moses Suli
FE - Daly Cherry-Evans (c)
HB - Trent Hodkinson
PR - Addin Fonua-Blake
HK - Api Koroisaiu
PR - Martin Taupau
SR - Joel Thompson
SR - Curtis Sironen
LK - Jake Trbojevic (vc)

Bench - Tom Wright, Taniela Paseka, Kelepi Tanginoa, Toafofoa Sipley

Fringe - Manese Fainu, Jack Gosiewski, Jade Anderson, Cade Cust, Brad Parker.

Just remember, this is just from the players currently at Manly. I haven't included possible or fantasy signings.

I believe a decent coach (e.g. Maguire) would have that team sitting a lot higher than 14th.

 

[Supreme Leader]

Totally enjoying this thread, but didn't our off season start 10 weeks ago?

 

[Holmsey]

I think the statement API being the most creative hooker in the game is the most telling. He is an instinctive raw weapon and would be the games best seventeen. He doesn't organise or create. He busts his gut and is fast and elusive.

On tom. He will be an Australian centre for the next ten years if played there alongside Mitchell. Mitchell came through as a fullback - that's where you play the freaks in the juniors because they get their hands on the ball all the time and win games against boys. I'd rather see a faster more agile player saving tries and igniting attacks. If that's tom Wright or jade anderson than the chance should be taken. Mitchell will be on a million a year soon and no chance he is going to shift Tedesco at the roosters. Wright without the constant defensive pressure at centre or six might be one of the best we can imagine. He has the creative nous from his schoolboy five eighth days and speed to burn.

Api is a starter. I can't believe people think he is better off the bench. One of the best 9s in the comp and you want him to play limited minuets? Api can play 80 but preferably he plays a good strong 65 to 70 and if he needs a rest have a backup. Nothing wrong with that. Luke is exactly the same at NZ he plays most of the game but a bench hooker takes his place during his breaks. Koroisaus job in team is destroy the ruck with his speed and creativity as well being a really strong defender. He isn't Cameron Smith he isn't going to be playing that way, he will play the Koroisau way and do it as a first grade starter. He would walk into most clubs number 9 barring Melbourne and South's. And once again Tom isn't like Mitchell as Tom can ball play, one of the best at it and also needs to have the ball as much as possible. Mitchell got moved because he was struggling with the fitness required and couldn't create. Tom doesn't have these issues all he needs to do is work on his defence.