Off the pace

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It's annoying tho, I get on a roll and I can't type as fast as I think and find it hard to properly express my thoughts to their fullest. Also I get sidetracked by other thoughts. But honestly I just love getting on my high horse and having a rant :D

LOL I do that. I intend to put up a short post and 5 paragraph's later I'm wondering what to remove.
 
Some big, mobile forwards are a must. The cupboard is pretty bare this year but there are a few options coming off contract next year.
Burgess bros, Klemmer, Josh Jackson, Josh Papalii, Shaun Lane, Jayson Bukuya, Ethan Lowe, Chris Grevsmuhl, Martin Taupau.
We should have the cap space to make a play for a couple of these at least with Lyon, Mateo, B Lawrence etc off contract.
Last night also highlighted how badly effected a team is without it's first choice rake. And with the greatest of nods to Matty Ballin (who's been fantastic over the years) I'd love to see that Jake Granville from the cows in Manly colours. So quick and sharp with his passing and a very dangerous running game that helps get the Cows on the front foot.. Hopefully Api can bring this if he's MB's replacement..
 
Trouble is I don't see anyone next year that's going to change things.

Myles, a good hard head but well past his peak.

Brown, more versatile ( ie line TRed) than a superstar.

Korisau , will add some zip at 9 BUT we go backwards in defence with him.

Parcel / Wright , too young to feature just yet.

SO,

Get used to being in about position 9-12 because unless teams currently above is go into a slide I see more of the same for 2016.

2017

Our oldies getting really old, so same or worse position .

2018 and beyond , that's the big question mark??

Mark, I agree with your assessment of the players coming in, but I disagree in that I think we will do better than you think in the years to come.

I think:
2016: 6th
2017: 4th
2018: GF or premiers

The reason I say this just by looking at results this year. It took a hell of a lot of bad luck to make us miss the finals

(1) Horror injury toll first 8 rounds
(2) Brutal losses to Penrith, NQLD, Parramamatta
(3) Distractions from Foran and Cherry contracts
(4) A completely dysfunctional management
(5) Poor treatment of club legends
(6) Poor treatment by the NRL

...and we still only missed the finals by one place

We have a two speed team. We have a backline still able to compete but getting old, and a forward set full of plodders.
But the X-factor are the Trobojevic brothers. That will keep the class in the team and with Stewart, Killer, Hiku and Cherry still delivering in the backline we will be top 8 every year.
The reason I have us improving though is that we have some of the most astute to find the right players to fill the gaps, and with the players above we will attract them.
We'll get the big names, don't worry. They will always want to come to us over the loser and turnstile clubs.

NYEagle
 
Mark, I agree with your assessment of the players coming in, but I disagree in that I think we will do better than you think in the years to come.

I think:
2016: 6th
2017: 4th
2018: GF or premiers

The reason I say this just by looking at results this year. It took a hell of a lot of bad luck to make us miss the finals

(1) Horror injury toll first 8 rounds
(2) Brutal losses to Penrith, NQLD, Parramamatta
(3) Distractions from Foran and Cherry contracts
(4) A completely dysfunctional management
(5) Poor treatment of club legends
(6) Poor treatment by the NRL

...and we still only missed the finals by one place

We have a two speed team. We have a backline still able to compete but getting old, and a forward set full of plodders.
But the X-factor are the Trobojevic brothers. That will keep the class in the team and with Stewart, Killer, Hiku and Cherry still delivering in the backline we will be top 8 every year.
The reason I have us improving though is that we have some of the most astute to find the right players to fill the gaps, and with the players above we will attract them.
We'll get the big names, don't worry. They will always want to come to us over the loser and turnstile clubs.

NYEagle
To add to this, next year will see the benefit of neither James Hasson, or his twin brother Hassooooon, playing any games for Manly. I firmly believe that Hassooooon is partly responsible for our poor finish this year. He was borderline invisible last night with terrible stats lol.*

*better stats than when he actually PLAYS though!!
 
I'm sure going to miss my man Hassooooon!!

Poor old Hasplod, will be interesting to see how he goes over there, you have to say David Gower is a better player now than he was with us.
 
I'm sure going to miss my man Hassooooon!!

Poor old Hasplod, will be interesting to see how he goes over there, you have to say David Gower is a better player now than he was with us.
Yeah I never rated Gower as much when he played with us, the sort of guy you need to fill your roster but that's about it. He's head and shoulders above the much-maligned Hasplod though!!

The Hasson/Hassooooon thing reminds me of the 12th man's take on Steve Renouff/Renoff lol ;)
 
Tactically speaking, we are still playing in 2007-11. Slow the ruck, wide defense up and in, dominate in defense via line speed and aggression and hunt in packs to minimize their yardage gains and basically beat them into submission. Our outside defense was able to stifle most attacking raids and the momentum gained by the aggressive defense systems allowed some very talented backs to score almost at will. Basically we won games with an attacking defensive system.

This would quite possibly still be a very successful game plan, IF we could pull it off. We currently lack the size, aggression and line speed to effect this tactic in the middle. In actual fact WE are the team getting beaten into submission with aggressive defense.

Working the ruck and slowing the play the ball down has resulted in us being penalized in the ruck with almost monotonous regularity, giving up field position, possession and momentum every_single_time. Whilst I've often felt we were getting unfairly pinged in the ruck, the simple fact is this: it's the epitome of stupidity to not look closely at this area and make_a_change!! Let them up faster? Trade those extra few seconds of time gained by holding down for the better gain of NOT gifting them field position and possession to boot. Sure they'll make a few extra yards per set, but is that worse than 30-40 free meters and a fresh set? Not even close. Four, five or six extra sets per game that invariably start in perfect attacking position. And we've proven time and again that our up and in (and slooooow) defense out wide is ohhh so vulnerable to a decent kick and a winger who can jump. Or even just catch and fall over. For F**CK'S SAKES!!

It's obvious to me, and I'm no technical wizard. I'm an ex front rower who enjoyed the simplicity of a game where "if they're not wearing your colours, and don't have a whistle, you can hurt them". That's all the instruction I required before a game.

These guys are highly paid athletes who've literally done nothing else (with a few exceptions of course) than play bloody football. They're not working 8-10hr shifts five days a week, sucking it up and going to training only to get minimal sleep and do it all over again. On f*ck all $$ an hour. These guys are getting paid boardroom dollars on what would apparently seem to be floor sweeping hours, with no responsibility except to themselves and the fans of the club they happen to be playing for. Surely some of these guys are smart enough to suggest that some changes should be made in the way they're playing and then perhaps lead the team in the physical war on the field? I'm hoping that in years to come that leadership role will be filled by Jake T, DCE, Gutho and guys like Demetriou and Santini and that young hooker from the U'20's.

When you step back and look at the guys we've lost over the last few seasons, the guys that lead the defensive brutality that gave us that intimidatory edge, things kind of come into perspective. Gifty, BoChoc, Kingy, Nood, Kitey et al.. That's a lot of forward power to lose and it's really hurt us this year.

I guess, in the infamous words of one Paul Keating, it's "the recession we had to have"?

You know what?? F*ck that sh*t. We are Manly. We don't do recessions. We don't do mediocrity. We don't do "mathematical chances". We kick ass, take names and go home with the Winfield Cup under one arm, with a pair of Seabirds carrying a carton of Tooheys under the other.

Amen!

Defence stills wins games. That's the biggest factor, and roosters attack with their defence. Storm haven't the biggest side (still one of the best front rowers in Broomwich) but they remain competitive cause they have outstanding defence - albeit bordering on too much wrestle.

I agree with everything above. We got to improve our defence! We need to fix that above all else first. We need better coaching, we need better cattle, we need a change in attitude.
 
Tactically speaking, we are still playing in 2007-11. Slow the ruck, wide defense up and in, dominate in defense via line speed and aggression and hunt in packs to minimize their yardage gains and basically beat them into submission. Our outside defense was able to stifle most attacking raids and the momentum gained by the aggressive defense systems allowed some very talented backs to score almost at will. Basically we won games with an attacking defensive system.

This would quite possibly still be a very successful game plan, IF we could pull it off. We currently lack the size, aggression and line speed to effect this tactic in the middle. In actual fact WE are the team getting beaten into submission with aggressive defense.

Working the ruck and slowing the play the ball down has resulted in us being penalized in the ruck with almost monotonous regularity, giving up field position, possession and momentum every_single_time. Whilst I've often felt we were getting unfairly pinged in the ruck, the simple fact is this: it's the epitome of stupidity to not look closely at this area and make_a_change!! Let them up faster? Trade those extra few seconds of time gained by holding down for the better gain of NOT gifting them field position and possession to boot. Sure they'll make a few extra yards per set, but is that worse than 30-40 free meters and a fresh set? Not even close. Four, five or six extra sets per game that invariably start in perfect attacking position. And we've proven time and again that our up and in (and slooooow) defense out wide is ohhh so vulnerable to a decent kick and a winger who can jump. Or even just catch and fall over. For F**CK'S SAKES!!

It's obvious to me, and I'm no technical wizard. I'm an ex front rower who enjoyed the simplicity of a game where "if they're not wearing your colours, and don't have a whistle, you can hurt them". That's all the instruction I required before a game.

These guys are highly paid athletes who've literally done nothing else (with a few exceptions of course) than play bloody football. They're not working 8-10hr shifts five days a week, sucking it up and going to training only to get minimal sleep and do it all over again. On f*ck all $$ an hour. These guys are getting paid boardroom dollars on what would apparently seem to be floor sweeping hours, with no responsibility except to themselves and the fans of the club they happen to be playing for. Surely some of these guys are smart enough to suggest that some changes should be made in the way they're playing and then perhaps lead the team in the physical war on the field? I'm hoping that in years to come that leadership role will be filled by Jake T, DCE, Gutho and guys like Demetriou and Santini and that young hooker from the U'20's.

When you step back and look at the guys we've lost over the last few seasons, the guys that lead the defensive brutality that gave us that intimidatory edge, things kind of come into perspective. Gifty, BoChoc, Kingy, Nood, Kitey et al.. That's a lot of forward power to lose and it's really hurt us this year.

I guess, in the infamous words of one Paul Keating, it's "the recession we had to have"?

You know what?? F*ck that sh*t. We are Manly. We don't do recessions. We don't do mediocrity. We don't do "mathematical chances". We kick ass, take names and go home with the Winfield Cup under one arm, with a pair of Seabirds carrying a carton of Tooheys under the other.

Amen!

Just to add to that, the Broncos do actually get off the tackled player real quick - so as to not give away a penalty. They are still able to read the attack well and slide and cover in defence. I was amazed at how quick they tackle, a lot of times only two men in, they don't wrestle or get that third man in, which means they have more troops ready to go in the defensive line.

Roosters are like the old Manly, just smash you in defense and dont miss any tackles. Need to go back to how we played in the 2013 semi against the roosters, some of the best defence ive seen in recent times, different forwards then I know, especially glen stewert, our best D player.
 
Guys - Cordner's not big. He's just fast, aggressive, fit and lays it all on the table. Not one of our players showed that effort and passion - not one.

I know this is unpopular, but we need something new. We need a new attitude, structure (both in attack and defense) & gameplan, and Barrett apparently is very strategy smart if you believe what you read.

The first thing though, is I hope he addresses the players attitude and culture. We've become too matter of fact & are maybe the softest team in the NRL

That's about heart and passion for the jersey. What ive seen over the past 12 months is a lot of quitting, both on off the park.
 
From RLW's "Five things We Learned From Sea Eagles vs Roosters"

3. Manly drop their chance at finals footy (literally).
Manly are officially out of finals contention, and to be perfectly honest, after tonight’s performance they have no one to blame but themselves. They were average to say the least, particularly with ball in hand. There were far too many occasions when the Sea Eagles dropped the pill while deep in Roosters territory. Outgoing coach Geoff Toovey really deserved better.

4. Jayden Hodges needs to work on his dummy half passing.
Hodges is a nifty little hooker, with a nice little dummy half running game, but he really needs to work on his passing. His service tonight from dummy half was frankly not up to first grade standard. He really struggled hitting the chest of his runners, and Manly consequently struggled to gain much attacking momentum because of this.

Said it all really.
 
Defence is all about attitude and desire.

Get the players heads right, and commitment in defence will follow.
 
Every team needs a Hasson. Who else are we going to whinge and bitch and complain about.

Parramatta fans are so lucky cause they will be whinging and bitching and complaining next year.
 
Our forwards lacked aggression but to be fair when Mason got penalised in the opening tackle for being run at by a Rooster, well that set the tone for what sort of a game both teams were going to be allowed to play. Once the referees decided it was a touch footy night and not rugby league, it was all over for Manly. Manly's only hope of winning was a down and dirty fight in a slog out. Instead it was touch footy.

I see Toddy getting smashed in the media today by Des over refereeing and by Bellamy over match scheduling. He isn't popular in club land by the look of it.
 

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