R12 MANLY NSW CUP V WYONG ROOS

[Darren]

No Magnus yet?? Probably re-watching his 40, no 50, no 100 metre try stepping 13 players and running over Tooves as the late replacement water boy. He ran around Farrar twice for good measure.

 

[Bearfax]

Doesnt change the fact that a club with virtually no local junior strength seems to be able to consistently every two or three years raise itself to near premiers. And they dont do it by too often buying big names in the market. Sure they got SBW, Jennings and Moroney for this year but generally they bring players on through their junior comp by doing what Manly is now doing...taking the cream of the juniors available and developing them. Been doing it to Manly for years. An example is Jared Warea-Hargraves, or have you forgotten he's a Manly junior.

OK, Manly won two premierships fairly close together recently and another GF appearance a year before. But prior to 2007 all the way back to 1997, Manly were also rans. SC has been doing it continuously since 2000, and they did it by maintaining a solid set of reserves in lower grades where most of their players come from. Manly have just woken up to this effective process, but still havent maintained that effective junior development except for a few that get to first grade.

Dont misunderstand, it seems Manly knows how to develop players well, probably as well as any team in the comp. But they still do it on skimpy reserves and unless they start building up those reserves, and despite some outstanding young talent coming through, Manly could be struggling to stay in the 8 in a couple of years. We cant rely on Lyon, Matai, Watmough, Kite, King and Glen and Brett Stewart for ever as we have been. Take them out in two or three years and what have we got. Most of these are top draw players. They dont come along in clutches usually. And but for three or four potential stars, there's not much more in the pantry

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Roosters developed Mason, O'Meley, Anasta, Myles, Carney etc ?

 

[The Who]

Roosters developed Mason, O'Meley, Anasta, Myles, Carney etc ?

The only thing Easts have developed is a misguided superiority attitude.

 

[north coast eagle]

They have developed very successful ways to rort the salary cap.

 

[Fluffy]

Roosters developed Mason, O'Meley, Anasta, Myles, Carney etc ?

you forgot their latest mob to crack first grade, Jennings, Maloney, $BW, Mortimer, O'donnell, Oldfield, Seluini.

 

[eagles2win]

Doesnt change the fact that a club with virtually no local junior strength seems to be able to consistently every two or three years raise itself to near premiers. And they dont do it by too often buying big names in the market. Sure they got SBW, Jennings and Moroney for this year but generally they bring players on through their junior comp by doing what Manly is now doing...taking the cream of the juniors available and developing them. Been doing it to Manly for years. An example is Jared Warea-Hargraves, or have you forgotten he's a Manly junior.

OK, Manly won two premierships fairly close together recently and another GF appearance a year before. But prior to 2007 all the way back to 1997, Manly were also rans. SC has been doing it continuously since 2000, and they did it by maintaining a solid set of reserves in lower grades where most of their players come from. Manly have just woken up to this effective process, but still havent maintained that effective junior development except for a few that get to first grade.

Dont misunderstand, it seems Manly knows how to develop players well, probably as well as any team in the comp. But they still do it on skimpy reserves and unless they start building up those reserves, and despite some outstanding young talent coming through, Manly could be struggling to stay in the 8 in a couple of years. We cant rely on Lyon, Matai, Watmough, Kite, King and Glen and Brett Stewart for ever as we have been. Take them out in two or three years and what have we got. Most of these are top draw players. They dont come along in clutches usually. And but for three or four potential stars, there's not much more in the pantry

Watch in 2-3 years time the same people that are dismissing what the likes of the Roosters, the Storm and the Rabbitohs are doing and what the Panthers are just started doing will be the first ones to whinge why will be seeing scores what we are seeing in the lower grades in the top grade.

 

[Fairy Bower]

http://www.nswrl.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=76273&title=the-roos-knock-off-manly-for-their-first-win-at-home


The Roos knock off Manly for their first win at home
Jamie Anderson
NSWRL Media
4/06/2013 11:00:00 AM

The Wyong Roos scored 26 unanswered points to register their first home win of 2013 when they defeated Manly 26-10 on Sunday.

Played in horrendous conditions, both sides took some time to find their feet, but it was Manly who struck first when Ben Farrar crossed for the visitors.

Not too long after, Manly had their second when James Hasson dived on a grubber kick that was not defused by Wyong in the greasy conditions and with Chisholm's conversion the visitors had scooted out to an early 10-0 lead.

Things were not looking good for the home side early doors however they managed to deny Manly again and again despite conceding ground and possession regularly during the first forty minutes.

The home side got on the board when Levi Pulu charged over and then in the shadows of the first half, Todd Wilson ran onto a beautiful ball to see the sides locked up at 10-10 at the main break.

Whatever Paul Stringer said to his troops at half time appeared to have had its desired affect as his men scored three tries in the opening fifteen minutes of the second half courtesy of Malau, Williams and Uaisele who capped off a brillaint team try.

With the score at 26-10, neither side could add anything further to the scoreboard over the concluding 20 minutes, with the home side in particular probably unlucky not to have added to Manly's woes with a few more tries.

With the win, Wyong has leap frogged Manly on the ladder, and with the two points for the bye this weekend, they may even find themselves in 11th place by rounds end.

Manly will need to regroup quickly as they head across the Tasman to face a reinvigorated Vulcans side on Sunday.

Wyong Roos 26 (L Pulu, T Wilson, M Williams, A Malau, E Uaisele tries; M Nelson 3 goals) def. Manly Sea Eagles 10 (B Farrar, J Hasson tries; D Chisholm goal) at Morry Breen Oval.

 

[Chip and Chase]

...dived on a grubber kick that was not defused by Wyong in the greasy conditions.....

I thought only bombs were defused ?? I thought grubbers were "cleaned up".

 

[tookey]

Cannot believe that he didn't mention Magnus once in his summary.

Clearly the writer wasn't even at the game otherwise he would have been signing the praises of Magnus the magnificent who carved Manly up time and time again for the whole 80 minutes in a display that has won him the attention of NRL talent scouts

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Doesnt change the fact that a club with virtually no local junior strength seems to be able to consistently every two or three years raise itself to near premiers. And they dont do it by too often buying big names in the market. Sure they got SBW, Jennings and Moroney for this year but generally they bring players on through their junior comp by doing what Manly is now doing...taking the cream of the juniors available and developing them. Been doing it to Manly for years. An example is Jared Warea-Hargraves, or have you forgotten he's a Manly junior.

OK, Manly won two premierships fairly close together recently and another GF appearance a year before. But prior to 2007 all the way back to 1997, Manly were also rans. SC has been doing it continuously since 2000, and they did it by maintaining a solid set of reserves in lower grades where most of their players come from. Manly have just woken up to this effective process, but still havent maintained that effective junior development except for a few that get to first grade.

Dont misunderstand, it seems Manly knows how to develop players well, probably as well as any team in the comp. But they still do it on skimpy reserves and unless they start building up those reserves, and despite some outstanding young talent coming through, Manly could be struggling to stay in the 8 in a couple of years. We cant rely on Lyon, Matai, Watmough, Kite, King and Glen and Brett Stewart for ever as we have been. Take them out in two or three years and what have we got. Most of these are top draw players. They dont come along in clutches usually. And but for three or four potential stars, there's not much more in the pantry

Watch in 2-3 years time the same people that are dismissing what the likes of the Roosters, the Storm and the Rabbitohs are doing and what the Panthers are just started doing will be the first ones to whinge why will be seeing scores what we are seeing in the lower grades in the top grade.

Why would anyone dismiss what the Roosters and Souths are doing ? When we are in the situation of our guys finishing up, we can go and throw megabucks at the big names as well like they have
And those big 3 in Melbourne are going to be done in 5 years time, what are they doing there that is so impressive ?

I'd hardly trumpet the lower grades as being big in Souths revival, the purchase of McGuire, Inglis, the Burgess clan, Te'o etc on top of what was already there should work every time.
Roosters threw Maloney, SBW, Jennings and O'Donnell on top of what was already a handy squad

Personally I like what we are doing for 2-3 years time. We have picked out some of the best youngsters coming through in Sao, Chee Kam and Hiku with Gutherson and Trbjovic behind them earmarked for big things, with a halves pairing that is already among the top in the game before either of them has hit 25. Please explain to me how this succession plan is so poor ?

 

[Bearfax]

This is not so much about the high profile players SC and Souths bought. Its about the players that are back up in the NSW Cup and U20s. Manly do have a few outstanding young blokes coming through which we HOPE will become top first grade and possibly rep players. We cant be sure that they will all succeed and usually most dont. We may be lucky and that group all move to higher honours successfully.

But in a couple of years Manly will have their excellent half combination, Taufua, Lawrence, Buhrer and....? Even if all five of the players you identified make first grade, they are replacing a group of top class players at the peak of their game who may all retire or leave in a very short duration period.

We've already let Whare and Kite go, one an outstanding future talent, the other our mainstay prop. Our brilliant backrow combination, Watmough and Glenn Stewart are now in their 30s. Realistically Brett Stewart is a year by year proposition with those legs. Lyon may have another three years, Matai perhaps a little longer. I think King is near retiring and Ballin....how long will his body last. Williams is very likely to look elsewhere next year.

It all says that though there are some exciting players coming through who may be stars of the future, they will join only a few of the players we have today and Manly may have big gaps in their team and reserves.

Lets be realistic. The NSW Cup side is coming last. The U20s side is coming 3rd last. Hardly suggests that we have a lot of burgeoning talent coming through. All I am suggesting is that when we recruit, it may be wise to be more selective and not just go for quantity. That's where Parra and Wests fail. The recruiters should be commended for Sao, Chee-Kan, Hiku, Lawrence, Fa'aiso, Symonds, Moro...good catches. But four of these four guys were needed to replace first graders. Its done little to build up our reserves and as I said, we will need a lot of quality players soon.

 

[manlyfan76]

This is not so much about the high profile players SC and Souths bought. Its about the players that are back up in the NSW Cup and U20s. Manly do have a few outstanding young blokes coming through which we HOPE will become top first grade and possibly rep players. We cant be sure that they will all succeed and usually most dont. We may be lucky and that group all move to higher honours successfully.

But in a couple of years Manly will have their excellent half combination, Taufua, Lawrence, Buhrer and....? Even if all five of the players you identified make first grade, they are replacing a group of top class players at the peak of their game who may all retire or leave in a very short duration period.

We've already let Whare and Kite go, one an outstanding future talent, the other our mainstay prop. Our brilliant backrow combination, Watmough and Glenn Stewart are now in their 30s. Realistically Brett Stewart is a year by year proposition with those legs. Lyon may have another three years, Matai perhaps a little longer. I think King is near retiring and Ballin....how long will his body last. Williams is very likely to look elsewhere next year.

It all says that though there are some exciting players coming through who may be stars of the future, they will join only a few of the players we have today and Manly may have big gaps in their team and reserves.

Lets be realistic. The NSW Cup side is coming last. The U20s side is coming 3rd last. Hardly suggests that we have a lot of burgeoning talent coming through. All I am suggesting is that when we recruit, it may be wise to be more selective and not just go for quantity. That's where Parra and Wests fail. The recruiters should be commended for Sao, Chee-Kan, Hiku, Lawrence, Fa'aiso, Symonds, Moro...good catches. But four of these four guys were needed to replace first graders. Its done little to build up our reserves and as I said, we will need a lot of quality players soon.

You could have said exactly the same thing 5 years ago. Since this time in 2008 we have won two premierships, missed a GF by one game in '12 and are top 4 this year. Where was DCE Foran taufua Horo Lawerence symonds Gower back then?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

http://www.nswrl.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-

" ... both sides took some time to find their feet"

Seriously, how hard can it be? I mean, where were they looking?

 

[Bearfax]

5 years ago though we lost the great Steve Menzies and Robinson and Williamson, we had the basis of an already proven but young group of players in Brett Stewart, David Williams, Matai. Lyon, Glenn Stewart, Watmough, King, Kite, Ballin and Orford at his prime. Only one of those players moved on that the others were already established first graders and rep players and they offered Manly at least 5 to 8 of service if they stayed. They were at their peak and Manly only had to fill in players around them. That is no longer the case because all of these players are now approaching the end of their careers or tenures, and its likely to all happen like it did to the Australian cricket team. We need future potential stars now to eventually hopefully reach something like those players skills.

Foran, Cherry-Evans and Taufua, I suspect will be dominant in Manly's future, Taufua possibly as a centre. Lawrence may lick on and adequately replace Kite. Moro will probably go and Symonds could end up a real surprise packet. But that's no where near the long term foundation we had in 2008.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

This is not so much about the high profile players SC and Souths bought. Its about the players that are back up in the NSW Cup and U20s. Manly do have a few outstanding young blokes coming through which we HOPE will become top first grade and possibly rep players. We cant be sure that they will all succeed and usually most dont. We may be lucky and that group all move to higher honours successfully.

But in a couple of years Manly will have their excellent half combination, Taufua, Lawrence, Buhrer and....? Even if all five of the players you identified make first grade, they are replacing a group of top class players at the peak of their game who may all retire or leave in a very short duration period.

We've already let Whare and Kite go, one an outstanding future talent, the other our mainstay prop. Our brilliant backrow combination, Watmough and Glenn Stewart are now in their 30s. Realistically Brett Stewart is a year by year proposition with those legs. Lyon may have another three years, Matai perhaps a little longer. I think King is near retiring and Ballin....how long will his body last. Williams is very likely to look elsewhere next year.

It all says that though there are some exciting players coming through who may be stars of the future, they will join only a few of the players we have today and Manly may have big gaps in their team and reserves.

Lets be realistic. The NSW Cup side is coming last. The U20s side is coming 3rd last. Hardly suggests that we have a lot of burgeoning talent coming through. All I am suggesting is that when we recruit, it may be wise to be more selective and not just go for quantity. That's where Parra and Wests fail. The recruiters should be commended for Sao, Chee-Kan, Hiku, Lawrence, Fa'aiso, Symonds, Moro...good catches. But four of these four guys were needed to replace first graders. Its done little to build up our reserves and as I said, we will need a lot of quality players soon.

Where we completely differ in views is that a lack of results down in those grades means there is a lack of talent in the team. That isn't automatically the case

Best example, Warrirors. Been a very, very poor side for a year and a half now, under the results = lack of talent view than you'd be saying that Locke, Johnson, Mateo, Matulino, Hurrell to name a few are ordinary players, but we all know they aren't

And to further show the point that results in lower grades doesn't equal success, their U20s side has been dominant for 3 years and NSW Cup side made the grand final not too long ago

I'll worry about the retirements of those star players when the time comes, I'm not going to be worrying about it now. In the past 2-3 years we have found Foran, Taufua, DCE, Buhrer, Hopoate from within and recruited the right pieces from outside like Horo etc and I see absolutely no reason why in 2-3 years time we won't have a new crop coming through that we have heard very little of at the moment

 

[Bearfax]

You may be right KiwiEagle but its better to have a descent group of reserves tha not. A few years ago Manly had their equivalent to the Resreves in the QLD cup and were top of the league a couple of years in succession. The reason was a group of your future stars called Cherry-Evans, Foran, Buhrer etc. Certainly players appear but its important to keep a constant flow of them coming through and not allow stocks to get too low, because it then becomes too hard to rebuild.

Manly has had over the years an excellent coaching group, and I think that's one of the main reasons we succeed. But if we miss too many opportunities, even the best of coaching isnt going to get you by. And its dangerous to say just because we succeeded before we will continue to. We've been very lucky in the past decade to pick up a group of top line players who wanted to stay. But there are 15 other clubs out there and despite Manly's great past, they could easily outcompete us especially with the extra resources most of them have. We've succeeded because we think smarter about the players we recruit.

---

Just as a further piont to show how fortunate we have been with the players we have at present as those over the past twenty years of Manly's 66 years in the premiership, I consider Lyon, Brett Stewart would be on the run on side and Watmough and Glenn Stewart would be in the four reserves of my best ever Manly side. The other five players now retired but in the past 20 years would be Cliff Lyons, Hasler, Menzies, Toovey and Ben Kennedy.

Thats 9 best ever players in a twenty year period in my assessment. That suggest we have had a purple patch.

By the way that best ever 17 man team in my mind is

Eadie
Irvine
Fulton
Lyon
B. Stewart
Lyons
Toovey
Reilly
Menzies
Randall
O'Neill
Krillich
Bull

Hasler
Kennnedy
Watmough
G. Stewart

 

[The Who]

Nice team Bearfax. But Dale Shearer would have to be there, possibly on the wing instead of Brett (has Brett ever played as a winger?), but certainly on the bench instead of Hasler as he could cover so many more positions.

 

[Bearfax]

Nice team Bearfax. But Dale Shearer would have to be there, possibly on the wing instead of Brett (has Brett ever played as a winger?), but certainly on the bench instead of Hasler as he could cover so many more positions.

Brett has played winger on occasions during a game when he has been tentative at FB. Scored 3 tries one time. Picked him as winger because couldnt leave either Stewart or Eadie out. very different players but both brilliant. I think with Stewart's speed, evasiveness, involvement, safety under the high ball, ability to sniff out tries and defensive ability, he would have made one of the very best wingers of all time.