Reading Alex Ferguson's biography: Man United: re Foran, Choc and Brett

[Wombat Legacy]

His words, once a player starts talking to the media and causing unrest, or ends up disrespecting the coach, staff or thinks he is bigger than the club than they must go. The player is never bigger than the club. Fergie did this with Beckham, Roy Keane, Paul Ince, absolute superstars and the team moved on and kept winning.

I have sat and watched this stuff most of this season from Brett, Choc and Foran and they are weakening the role of Tooves, his great staff and the club.

Good post-All the media blabbing has done nothing but undermine Toovey. Great players and great leaders, but probably losing sight that they do not run the club. It happens in business a lot also.
As much as I hate the thought of them not being there, it gives us the chance to spend the money on up and comers etc

 

[Chip and Chase]

I'm not so concerned about what Foz has said in the media. Unless I've missed something all he has said is that yes there are some disgruntled players, and yes if Matai wants a release we should give him one. While not ideal, it's better than saying in the media that you are personally unhappy and want to leave. I haven't seen Foran quoted anywhere saying he wants out.

 

[panash]

I'm not so concerned about what Foz has said in the media. Unless I've missed something all he has said is that yes there are some disgruntled players, and yes if Matai wants a release we should give him one. While not ideal, it's better than saying in the media that you are personally unhappy and want to leave. I haven't seen Foran quoted anywhere saying he wants out.

thanks

 

[Ryan]

Just have players that want to be here. Is that too much to ask for as a member?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

That is the whole problem Ryan. They want to be here so much that when one of the them is not allowed to stay it causes distress.

Do we really want players who are apathetic about their club, have no feelings either way, and simply perform to a high robotic standard week in week out?

If so... have you considered following Storm?

 

[Ryan]

I dont know. Matai asking for a release, Anthony Watmough asking for a release, Brett Stewart and Kieran Foran telling people in a random cafe that they'll be playing for the Eels and Titans says otherwise mate.

I loved this team, when I first met Dan, Byso, Backer, Pepsi, Mata and Manly were dreadful, because the players wanted to die for the jersey, and were loyal to it.

I remember a blonde haired backrower, that used to wear a tape head band, playing the second half with a broken leg!

Anyone remember who that was?

 

[Chip and Chase]

Nathan Long ? I don't recall that broken leg scenario though.

 

[Daddycool08]

It is simple, get the best talent available for the least amount of money you can spend.

If high-profile players don't want to bleed maroon and white let them go.

I'd sooner have a team of 'Neville's' running around who want to be here.

I mean every NRL player who has the privilege of playing NRL should know that you are a small group that most of us 'never rans' would give our eye teeth for the chance you have been given the opportunity you guys have.

So if you want to play NRL play NRL if you want to white-ant leave the sport in general.

 

[fLIP]

It's far too big a difference to compare these situations.

On one hand you have a sport with a world of talent.we have 16 teams of which 2 in each might be bonified superstars. Football has thousand.

Man u have hundreds of millions of dollars to replace said players mid contacts ect. We can't afford to reach the salary cap.

What I'm trying to say is alls fair for Ferguson to have this opinion with regards to his management style because he has the finance and the circumstances to make players accountable for what they do in a very forward way. It's far too big a stretch to compare football dynamics in league. If we follow Ferguson's style off fit in or duck off, then we need to be prepared to miss the finals and become a run of the mill side at present.

 

[Andrew..]

It's far too big a difference to compare these situations.

On one hand you have a sport with a world of talent.we have 16 teams of which 2 in each might be bonified superstars. Football has thousand.

Man u have hundreds of millions of dollars to replace said players mid contacts ect. We can't afford to reach the salary cap.

What I'm trying to say is alls fair for Ferguson to have this opinion with regards to his management style because he has the finance and the circumstances to make players accountable for what they do in a very forward way. It's far too big a stretch to compare football dynamics in league. If we follow Ferguson's style off fit in or duck off, then we need to be prepared to miss the finals and become a run of the mill side at present.

Hey flip,
I pretty much agree we all that you've said...but I personally don't think we are as financially bad off as we are often lead to believe. There's no way we could sustain the the playing roster we have without us being as financially competitive as the other top teams.

Regarding team performance, I think we've been "winning ugly" for the past few months and maybe that's papered over some of the cracks that are now starting to appear...I have know idea if it's player disharmony or some of the younger forwards fatiguing or lacking in mental toughness at the back end of the season. I do know I'm looking forward to Glenn Stewart and Dunamis Lui returning because without their toughness and go forward I fear we are going to get rag dolled out the back door.

 

[Napper]

As I write this, 2 teams are currently playing for the wooden spoon. Meanwhile, Manly are outright first.

Budgewoi Eagle
Ryan
Happily Manly
Darren

Please find me some more negativity. I've got nothing to whinge about...

 

[Ryan]

As I write this, 2 teams are currently playing for the wooden spoon. Meanwhile, Manly are outright first.

Budgewoi Eagle
Ryan
Happily Manly
Darren

Please find me some more negativity. I've got nothing to whinge about...

Napper, why do you like Rugby League? Why specifically do you like Manly? What was the irigins if Rugby League about?

You can personally name and attack me, but I think there's more to the game than money and the Gen Y mentality of being fickle.

I see it as community. I see it as passion for your area - the same ideal as SOO. I'm sorry if you think im wring for wanting our players to bleed the colours, and have passion for our regions..ideals the game was built on.

Ive gotto ask you something, and I do this with the utmost respect. What age generation do you fit into?

Watmough, Foran, Matai and the Stewarts are causing trouble for our team. I dont like it.

We have a salary cap we must adhere to, and we arent cheats like the storm, titans, eels, dogs and others. Are these guys expecting us to cheat to accomodate them? If thats the case, maybe they need to do a little more study, to understand the restraints every team has.

 

[Napper]

As I write this, 2 teams are currently playing for the wooden spoon. Meanwhile, Manly are outright first.

Budgewoi Eagle
Ryan
Happily Manly
Darren

Please find me some more negativity. I've got nothing to whinge about...

Napper, why do you like Rugby League? Why specifically do you like Manly? What was the irigins if Rugby League about?

You can personally name and attack me, but I think there's more to the game than money and the Gen Y mentality of being fickle.

I see it as community. I see it as passion for your area - the same ideal as SOO. I'm sorry if you think im wring for wanting our players to bleed the colours, and have passion for our regions..ideals the game was built on.

Ive gotto ask you something, and I do this with the utmost respect. What age generation do you fit into?

Watmough, Foran, Matai and the Stewarts are causing trouble for our team. I dont like it.

We have a salary cap we must adhere to, and we arent cheats like the storm, titans, eels, dogs and others. Are these guys expecting us to cheat to accomodate them? If thats the case, maybe they need to do a little more study, to understand the restraints every team has.

I liked Manly because of the players who played for them at the time and because my dad followed them. Not one of the players that played for Manly when I was 5, still play. In another 20 years I'll say the same thing.

---

And don't accuse me of personally attacking you when all I did was mention your name on regards to your constant negativity towards pretty much everything on here.

 

[HappilyManly]

As I write this, 2 teams are currently playing for the wooden spoon. Meanwhile, Manly are outright first.

Budgewoi Eagle
Ryan
Happily Manly
Darren

Please find me some more negativity. I've got nothing to whinge about...

Always proud to exercise my right to free speech at will

And happy to join your Blocked List at any time

 

[Budgie]

I liked Manly because of the players who played for them at the time and because my dad followed them. Not one of the players that played for Manly when I was 5, still play. In another 20 years I'll say the same thing.

[/quote]

So ... you're 15 now?

---

As I write this, 2 teams are currently playing for the wooden spoon. Meanwhile, Manly are outright first.

Budgewoi Eagle
Ryan
Happily Manly
Darren

Please find me some more negativity. I've got nothing to whinge about...

This is the second time you've targeted me personally. Last time you were banned not long after. You ignore many positive comments I've seen from all you've listed. I'm dreadfully sorry that you and I don't agree. And I'm even more sorry that it's such an issue for you. Perhaps you should block me too?

 

[niccipops]

I agree that what is being reported by the media regarding the Choc, Matai, Foz and Stewarts crew, is unsettling and a little confusing for fans.
Personally I hate hearing about the talk of disharmony and I agree that no player is bigger than the club. It appears that there are definitely some emotional issues going on but at this stage I refuse feel negativity towards, or pass judgements on current club legends based on what the media is doing its best to try and stir up.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

. It is more vital than anything that Tooves absolute authority must be assured.

I don't think this would work. Buhrer the Fuhrer has a great ring to it, but Tooves the Fuhrer? Nup, sorry.

 

[Darren]

Can I get Napper to ban me plus Kiwi Eagle?

 

[Killer03]

Alex Ferguson and Man Utd is an interesting situation. Ferguson has always insisted no player is above the club....yet has constantly put himself above the club (in my opinion). Whilst I think he is a complete control freak tool, he is an absolute winner, and his record at Man Utd is awesome. It's easy to forget that he was apparently a game away from being sacked (I think it was an FA or League Cup he won in the late 80s which kept the firing squad away), and then went on to build a remarkable legacy.

Where Ferguson was awesome was he was unbelievable loyal to certain players at certain times. ie Cantona with his kungfu and Keane with his misdemeanours. But then in the space of a heartbeat he would have no problem punting people out the door as soon as they outlived their usefulness, or dared to question him and his authority. In doing so he constantly kept the team not only fresh and on their toes, but the players who would almost bored with winning (or complacent) weren't sitting around infecting the rest of the team with this malaise.

Does this however relate to rugby league? As others have pointed out, hard to bring out a cheque book and buy a number of gun players and replace players. Especially when talking about halves. Seriously there would be lucky to be 10-12 quality halves in the competition, and we are very fortunate to have 2 (plus a handy back up in Killer). Plus the salary cap makes this extra hard. Ferguson also took a BIG BIG risk when he punted Ince etc and brought through the kids of Beckham, Scholes etc. Sure they were quality, but if that experiment had have failed, Ferguson may well have seen himself on the dole queue back in Scotland. But as his gambles paid off his power grew. Tooves doesn't quite have that pull.....yet!

I do think however it does show the club carries on, player retire, get moved on, but the legacy of the club marches forward. The key is always to keep having the senior players teaching that legacy to our younger generation. Could we have a better senior playing group? And could we have a better young player group?

 

[robbiea]

I haven't seen one thing that puts Foran onto that list of disgruntled players.