Rebuild at what cost?

[lsz]

Hi All,

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but I thought it was worth bringing up. A lot of people on here believe we need a rebuild to compete at the top level again (let’s leave the owners and coaches out of it for now so we don’t go completely off track in typical ST fashion).

Plenty of us look at what Gus has done at the Dogs with a bit of envy, but it’s worth pointing out that in his first three years there, they finished last, then 12th, then 15th, with a record of 17 wins and 55 losses.

That stretch is what gave Gus the freedom to cut as many players as he did and really reshape the squad.

So my question is—do you think we, as a fan base, actually have the patience to sit through some rough years if it was all part of a proper long-term plan? Even if it meant copping our first wooden spoon?

For me I would be okay with it as long as I had faith in the plan...

 

[manlyfan76]

The management have proven they cannot succeed with rebuilds.

 

[KNUCKLES]

I could easily accept a few lean years if it meant we could start a project like the dogs have. Bring up and scout younger kids and nurture them through. I mean its not like were successful anyway. We hardly play finals as it is. Its almost a one year on, one year off type scenario, where we either miss the 8 or just scrape in. I'd rather miss the 8 for 2-3 years if it had light at the end of the tunnel rather than scraping in the 8 and being knocked out first week for 3 yrs and not getting anywhere, and the players that won't win us anything save face because of it

 

[KNUCKLES]

Also im no fan of parramatta, and they are struggling but I quite enjoy watching all their young kids coming through this year. Ryles has the right idea. Even if manly went down the same path, I wouldn't mind losing, knowing its a building process, adding a brick or two each year. Short term pain for long term success.

 

[JakeyB789]

Fine by me as long as there is a decent plan in place as you said. Sounds better than finishing 7th-12th every year, not being able to string consistent results together and never being a genuine premiership threat.

I think with Fogarty coming in and the Trbo's coming off contract soon there is a chance for more of a transition period rather than a full rebuild. We should still be looking to turn over at least half our roster because quite frankly there is a LOT of dead wood on there. Need to start bringing in some youth and if we don't have that in the system yet, start signing them from elsewhere..

 

[lsz]

The management have proven they cannot succeed with rebuilds.

I get that but put that aside (which is sort of silly I know)

Would you accept lean years if there was a plan in place?

 

[lsz]

As an aside as an older fan with strong memories of our last dominant era (2006 really to a bit of 2014) I do think it is easier for me to say that I would be happy with a less successful era

 

[The '47ers]

Would you accept lean years if there was a plan in place?

I was sort of hoping that there is a plan in place already haha!

 

[Disco]

Hi All,

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but I thought it was worth bringing up. A lot of people on here believe we need a rebuild to compete at the top level again (let’s leave the owners and coaches out of it for now so we don’t go completely off track in typical ST fashion).

Plenty of us look at what Gus has done at the Dogs with a bit of envy, but it’s worth pointing out that in his first three years there, they finished last, then 12th, then 15th, with a record of 17 wins and 55 losses.

That stretch is what gave Gus the freedom to cut as many players as he did and really reshape the squad.

So my question is—do you think we, as a fan base, actually have the patience to sit through some rough years if it was all part of a proper long-term plan? Even if it meant copping our first wooden spoon?

For me I would be okay with it as long as I had faith in the plan...

I feel a lot of Silvertails would say yes to you here Isz.

But I feel, honestly, if we finished bottom 4 in the first year of a rebuild most here would want the coach gone, and all the young players gone cause they aint good rnough.

For me personally I dont think we need a dramatic rebuild, whilst it is all doom and gloom here atm, the margins between where we are and where we would like to be are not the gulf many believe.

A few young forwards next year, then a bit of salary cap balance with Tommy and Jakes next deals thus allowing for a marquee forward...couple more youngsters and Walsh or Large really coming through and we could be looking much much better in 2027.

I've faith in Mestrov.

Seibold....well all along I've said we'll judge him on performance, anything worse than 2nd round of the finals and he goes IMO.

 

[manlyfan76]

I get that but put that aside (which is sort of silly I know)

Would you accept lean years if there was a plan in place?

I think it builds the wrong culture to happily accept poor results.

 

[KNUCKLES]

Fine by me as long as there is a decent plan in place as you said. Sounds better than finishing 7th-12th every year, not being able to string consistent results together and never being a genuine premiership threat.

I think with Fogarty coming in and the Trbo's coming off contract soon there is a chance for more of a transition period rather than a full rebuild. We should still be looking to turn over at least half our roster because quite frankly there is a LOT of dead wood on there. Need to start bringing in some youth and if we don't have that in the system yet, start signing them from elsewhere..

I just hope when the turbos come off contract, the club don't get nostalgic with them. Love both of them but their best days are behind them. I would personally let Jake retire or get a retirement package at the bears. Tom can follow him if it disgruntles him. I absolutely love Tom, happy for him to stay for maybe 400-500k a yr but he is busted. Anything more than that is too much of a burden.

 

[Rocky]

to be honest once the albatross contracts of DCE, Jake and Tom roll off we will be in a good position

we have too much talent currently in the team and coming through to do a full rebuild

 

[Wombat64]

Hi All,

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but I thought it was worth bringing up. A lot of people on here believe we need a rebuild to compete at the top level again (let’s leave the owners and coaches out of it for now so we don’t go completely off track in typical ST fashion).

Plenty of us look at what Gus has done at the Dogs with a bit of envy, but it’s worth pointing out that in his first three years there, they finished last, then 12th, then 15th, with a record of 17 wins and 55 losses.

That stretch is what gave Gus the freedom to cut as many players as he did and really reshape the squad.

So my question is—do you think we, as a fan base, actually have the patience to sit through some rough years if it was all part of a proper long-term plan? Even if it meant copping our first wooden spoon?

For me I would be okay with it as long as I had faith in the plan...

Yes I do .... it can't be much worse than what we are going through now .... It's just a slow painful death. The problem is, is that you can't remove the owners, management or coaches from that rebuild. The Bulldogs are only where they are now because of the players, coaches, rich benefactor and a top shelf management that knows what it takes for long term success. We don't have any of that going for us. If we did a rebuild it would be like Tigers rebuild ...... useless.

 

[bob dylan]

I get that but put that aside (which is sort of silly I know)

Would you accept lean years if there was a plan in place?

Not with current management. It appears they couldn't organise a shag in brothel even with a credit card in one hand and a reference in the other.

 

[Ohgeez]

Just a thought, what if this is already the plan? Not necessarily the full rebuild as dogs have done but we have Large, Walsh, Laifai, Willet, Navale already confirmed for top 30 spots next year I’m fairly sure. Hoppa & Koula have been 2 of our best this year & are only 20 & 22. Add to this Ashton Large & potentially a guy like Hugo Hart that could come into play 2027.

I said it in the off season but these short term contracts for the veteran players makes me think we are attempting to copy the Penrith Panthers method from around 2017 when they 1st debut’d a lot of their young gun players around the same time that went onto do great things. Will it be successful? We will see what happens but if we manage to snag an off contract prop like Davvy Moale & dump Sipley, Brown & a couple others I think the future is still bright.

 

[Sheikheagle]

Also im no fan of parramatta, and they are struggling but I quite enjoy watching all their young kids coming through this year. Ryles has the right idea. Even if manly went down the same path, I wouldn't mind losing, knowing its a building process, adding a brick or two each year. Short term pain for long term success.

Even the roosters have been blooding young blokes with success this year.

 

[The '47ers]

I feel a lot of Silvertails would say yes to you here Isz.

But I feel, honestly, if we finished bottom 4 in the first year of a rebuild most here would want the coach gone, and all the young players gone cause they aint good rnough.

For me personally I dont think we need a dramatic rebuild, whilst it is all doom and gloom here atm, the margins between where we are and where we would like to be are not the gulf many believe.

A few young forwards next year, then a bit of salary cap balance with Tommy and Jakes next deals thus allowing for a marquee forward...couple more youngsters and Walsh or Large really coming through and we could be looking much much better in 2027.

I've faith in Mestrov.

Seibold....well all along I've said we'll judge him on performance, anything worse than 2nd round of the finals and he goes IMO.

Tom and Jake's next deals?! Yeah nah, this is their last surely.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

If you go back to the pre golden era we were a bit of a shambles , bits and pieces players , one superstar ( Beaver ) and the addition of one single player brought the youngsters and the bits a pieces together, Ben Kennedy.

But even with Ben’s influence and an improving side we needed two more pieces to complete the puzzle.

A top line prop forward ( Kite ) & the best half back in the fans at the time ( Orford ).

AND it took 5 years to get to a GF, and 6 years to win one.

Not sure the current crop of Silvertails members have the patience for that , they’d want to “ sack the coach , sack the CEO , sack the owner “ and we’d be arguing about the same **** any & every day.

I however , like your idea.

We aren’t rich enough to buy a competition , so really the only way to get there is develop kids , and hope they stay with you , and then buy the key missing pieces.

Oh , and have patience with the CEO & coach as long as they are working to the plan.

 

[The Who]

Canterbury's rebuild is because they have huge finnancial support, from both their mega Leagues Club and also their mega-rich sponsor, Lundy. When you have this kind of easily hidden cash it's not hard to entice players and still maintain the appearance of being within the Salary Cap.
Canterbury has bought its current success. Just go through its roster.
We used to be able to buy the best players but we no longer have that sort of advantage. We are a small suburban outfit with a small, but passionate, supporter base, a small home ground, a small-minded owner and a small junior talent base.
Youngsters growing up in our area are understandably tempted by the beaches, and once you start surfing it is addictive. Very few of the other clubs have to compete with surfing for junior talent. Not many people would think of this as a reason for our continuing decline, but it is a major factor.
Unless we are bought by a wealthy benefactor we will never be able to seriously compete with the big NRL clubs.
Having supported the club since around 1960 and seen all of its triumphs I've had to come to terms with this unpalatable reality.

 

[DUFFMAN]

We have been a basket case since Penn took control of the club.

He isn't going to sell anytime soon but there is no reason we can't be a premiership force again.
The club seems more focused on short term KPIs with no football people running things, especially old school Manly boys.
We are overpaying a few players but one is out of the door soon and the others should be on reduced contracts if they're resigned on longer.

I'm happy with our CEO, he must be our longest serving in the last 20 years and seems to doing a lot better job than some we have had.
Talk of sacking the coach, who replaces him? when there isn't to many available, especially with two new teams entering the completion

I can't stand the bloke but maybe sign Gus Gould on for 5+ years, he does have a good track record.
Invest heavy in youth instead of buying blokes chasing a final contract before retiring.
I would prefer sitting down towards the bottom of the ladder (except getting a spoon) for 4 or 5 years while building a team that is capable of winning a premiership instead of finishing mid table every year.