Rebuild at what cost?

[Eagledare2dream]

And no I don't want our first Wooden spoon thank you very much. All we need is a couple of forwards our backs is fine. We should b looking at the Islanders or Poms as we have a good history with English imports, Kevin Ward, Craig Innes was a great.

 

[Medowie Eagle]

And no I don't want our first Wooden spoon thank you very much. All we need is a couple of forwards our backs is fine. We should b looking at the Islanders or Poms as we have a good history with English imports, Kevin Ward, Craig Innes was a great.

Craig Innes was a Kiwi.

 

[eaglebuzz]

Not a complete rebuild but a very decent shift away from the "big 3" that just failed miserably for us.

I think their contracts failed us more than anything.

DCE should have been cut loose back when he signed with the Titans, his contract has been an albatross around the club's neck ever since.

Jake and Tom accepted what the club offered, which was too much, especially for Jake, and both of their contracts were too long. The 6 again era also completely nullified Jake's strengths which was extremely unfortunate.

Tom nearly single-handedly carried us to the 2021 premiership, it was our forward pack that let us down that year.

DCE has been good - but on the whole, when you look at all the winnable games we have lost due to his abject lack of game management, I think we could have fared as well with a cheaper half and better forwards.

 

[Eagledare2dream]

I would keep Faulalo, Saab, Lehi, Walsh, Garrick, Koula, Talau, Ben, Navale, Bully, Ola, Simpkin, Paseka Tom for 400k - 500k but if play the whole season 800k - 1mil because he's the best player in the game. I wouldn't swap him for any player if fit except maybe Cleary or Haas.

 

[Eagledare2dream]

Craig Innes was a Kiwi.

Oppsy

 

[Eagledare2dream]

Craig Innes was a Kiwi.

I meant Kiwi imports also

 

[DieHardManlyFan]

I personally believe the issues we are currently facing are on the back of some poor development decisions made circa 5 years ago with the western Sydney/black town move. I believe our lack of culture and junior skills are a reflection of Manly trying to mimic what other clubs are doing instead of capitalising on what makes us special (insert norther beaches area here). I believe the right changes have been made with Choc and 2V spearheading our local development but we probably won’t see this benefit first grade for another 3/4 years. My hopes is that at that time we have a coach and players to really capitalise on this and develop the manly culture. You can’t buy loyalty, DCE has shown that but you can develop it and my hopes is that while we have some dark times ahead in the short term we will rise again 🦅

 

[Frogz]

I personally believe the issues we are currently facing are on the back of some poor development decisions made circa 5 years ago with the western Sydney/black town move. I believe our lack of culture and junior skills are a reflection of Manly trying to mimic what other clubs are doing instead of capitalising on what makes us special (insert norther beaches area here). I believe the right changes have been made with Choc and 2V spearheading our local development but we probably won’t see this benefit first grade for another 3/4 years. My hopes is that at that time we have a coach and players to really capitalise on this and develop the manly culture. You can’t buy loyalty, DCE has shown that but you can develop it and my hopes is that while we have some dark times ahead in the short term we will rise again 🦅

What are Choc and Toovey up to??.. I thought Choc got punted from coaching Syd Shield.

 

[lsz]

Do you need me to a start a poll?

Go for it!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

do you think we, as a fan base, actually have the patience to sit through some rough years if it was all part of a proper long-term plan? Even if it meant copping our first wooden spoon?

Nup, sorry. I hate rough years. Zero patience. In fact if we could do some serious wheeling and dealing by June 30 I'd be all for it

I agree with a couple of posters who suggest we aren't too far off.
And also that the short term deals for experienced (old) forwards is so we aren't locked in for years with medium talent. Because we really are waiting for just the right couple of players who can take us to next level. A new Brent Kite, a new Watmough or Ballin would make a difference!

 

[Andrew..]

I'm sure I read somewhere here that we are chasing a couple of young forwards for next year. I think it was from @AndWeDon'tCare, but I could be wrong, and I would hate to make a mistake and speak out of turn.
Contrary to other opinions, I believe that Mestrov is a good, hard-nosed CEO who knows what needs to be done. It's possible he tried to balance the cap, starting with the hope that DCE would accept a cut, which sounded fair to me considering his age and time at the club.
One way or another, I'm hoping for a bit of a turnaround in the next 18 months or at least something on the horizon to get excited about because it's been a while between drinks.

 

[Thewestisbest]

Seibold needs to sign a decent forward. He has added very little to improve forwards he inherited. Aloia, Paseka, Bullemore, Olakuatau, Burbo, and Jake is a really good starting base imo. If he added a good Pommy backrower, or a few youthful forwards we'd be in much better shape. Instead he chose to go for experience on tired legs, and we look way off the pace as a result

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Instead he chose to go for experience on tired legs, and we look way off the pace as a result

Could be wrong but i think the old forwards Manly has recruited were mostly announced pretty late in the day, probably after better options we were looking at fell through or had signed elsewhere.
In other words, Manly is definitely looking for good talent.
Till the right one becomes available we've gone with stopgaps to (hopefully) do a job for a limited time, and not busting the bank.

 

[Thewestisbest]

Could be wrong but i think the old forwards Manly has recruited were mostly announced pretty late in the day, probably after better options we were looking at fell through or had signed elsewhere.
In other words, Manly is definitely looking for good talent.
Till the right one becomes available we've gone with stopgaps to (hopefully) do a job for a limited time, and not busting the bank.

One or two stop gaps is a good idea. But when you have Melbourne Storm adding a young bull like Pahulu to their already awesome pack, and we are adding guys like Brown etc, it suggests we are way off in our targeting and strategy. Siebold has signed a bunch of older middles and his strategy is not working. The coach was singing his own praises regarding his recruitment in the off season.

Why people just assume experience comes cheap I don't know. There was younger options out there that didn't break the bank. Just cast your eye over every other teams top 30 and it should become very clear, very fast.

 

[The '47ers]

Craig Innes was a Kiwi.

Still is

 

[lsz]

I was sort of hoping that there is a plan in place already haha!

Fair....but I am not sure will the balance of the cap we can do that at the moment

 

[lsz]

I feel a lot of Silvertails would say yes to you here Isz.

But I feel, honestly, if we finished bottom 4 in the first year of a rebuild most here would want the coach gone, and all the young players gone cause they aint good rnough.

For me personally I dont think we need a dramatic rebuild, whilst it is all doom and gloom here atm, the margins between where we are and where we would like to be are not the gulf many believe.

A few young forwards next year, then a bit of salary cap balance with Tommy and Jakes next deals thus allowing for a marquee forward...couple more youngsters and Walsh or Large really coming through and we could be looking much much better in 2027.

I've faith in Mestrov.

Seibold....well all along I've said we'll judge him on performance, anything worse than 2nd round of the finals and he goes IMO.

I hear you but I still do not think unless something dramatic that gets us in serious contention (I could see us getting to the sharks level, around the top 4 but not good enough when the time really counts)

 

[lsz]

I think it builds the wrong culture to happily accept poor results.

In a salary cap sport I ma not sure you can do much else really

 

[lsz]

Yes I do .... it can't be much worse than what we are going through now .... It's just a slow painful death. The problem is, is that you can't remove the owners, management or coaches from that rebuild. The Bulldogs are only where they are now because of the players, coaches, rich benefactor and a top shelf management that knows what it takes for long term success. We don't have any of that going for us. If we did a rebuild it would be like Tigers rebuild ...... useless.

I think the tigers with Richardson are going to be in a good place once they move Benji on

 

[lsz]

Canterbury's rebuild is because they have huge finnancial support, from both their mega Leagues Club and also their mega-rich sponsor, Lundy. When you have this kind of easily hidden cash it's not hard to entice players and still maintain the appearance of being within the Salary Cap.
Canterbury has bought its current success. Just go through its roster.
We used to be able to buy the best players but we no longer have that sort of advantage. We are a small suburban outfit with a small, but passionate, supporter base, a small home ground, a small-minded owner and a small junior talent base.
Youngsters growing up in our area are understandably tempted by the beaches, and once you start surfing it is addictive. Very few of the other clubs have to compete with surfing for junior talent. Not many people would think of this as a reason for our continuing decline, but it is a major factor.
Unless we are bought by a wealthy benefactor we will never be able to seriously compete with the big NRL clubs.
Having supported the club since around 1960 and seen all of its triumphs I've had to come to terms with this unpalatable reality.

The thing with the dogs is that when Gould started there he pretty much had the whole squad off contract over a 2 year period so do it all from scratch (while ridding some bad years)