Sea Eagles' Feet of Clay

[Rocky]

"They also need a recruitment process that doesn't allow the outstanding young talent they have to slip through their fingers"

This is an interesting comment because I don't feel like we have had many instances of young talent slipping through our fingers.

The best of them in recent years seem to be the likes of Weekes, Humphries and Sam Fainu - they are all good up and comers but they project as no better than "good" first graders.

So does this mean we aren't producing star enough talent internally? In my eyes we have retained the better ones like Haumole, Lehi and Koula but thats only a few names.

 

[KNUCKLES]

Reading the dreaded Weidler this morning I was struck by this quote from Frank Ponissi about Max King:

“It’s so great to see his success now, and he is so deserving of his Blues position. I just wish we got him going at Melbourne. He is our style of player and person.”

Of course he is. We know what a Storm player is like. We have no such thing at Manly. We don't have a Manly style of player and person.

Yep. Culture. You're right Wombat, it's exactly where we need to start again.

Sure we do, cherry has demonstrated our culture for over 10 years now. Spoilt is our type of players.

 

[LeonardCohen]

I think trying to take 10 years of failure and hinge it on a couple of issues is misguided. There have been so many variables in that time that have contributed to missing the mark and/or abject failure.

2015 - Toovey happened to be coaching at time when a number of our premiership stars were coming to the end of their careers. He had Des’ cap nightmare limiting the quality of our roster as well. DCE and Foran’s contracts and ego got in the way too.

2016-2018 - we had outdoor furniture…wait…we backed a terrible rookie coach that turned out to be a dud.

2019-2022 - we actually started to get close to something sustainable and premiership credentialed. Then, Fainu stabbed someone, AFB decided he needed a fresh start if he was ever going to grow up and we kicked an own goal with the Pride jersey.

2023 - 2025 - Tom’s injuries catch up with him, Jake nears retirement and neither play to a standard befitting their huge salaries. DCE walks out on the club. Seibs recruits old forwards in an increasingly fast game, because of a cap squeeze.

Each little mini-era has had its own share of drama and it just hasn’t worked for us. If we are going to get out of this, someone is going to have to prioritise junior development and long term success. The current strategy employed by the club to buy Tigers rejects on the cheap and train and trial deals for old washed up forwards, is not the way out.

 

[nightster]

this constant blaming of the owners feels misplaced. They aren’t involved like Politis and I’m not sure we want them to be. Salaried staff run the joint. It’s fair to say we were always a factional mess until the Fulton influence was finally removed but surely the back office is now cohesive. The DCE saga aside, it feels less chaotic. Manly’s challenge is the lack of pathways compounded by some shocking retention and recruitment. We keep some players too long, let talent leave and pay far too much for a certain few, guaranteeing an unbalanced squad. The sharks, raiders, warriors, dogs all have their valued spread. But all base their squad on young strong forwards. Manly bizarrely believe a small but fast backline can overcome our average pack. Siebold didn’t build this squad but he’s done f’all to improve it. More aging forwards and typical inconsistency. We need a serious review of the team we want to be and the players we want to chase. No more weapons please. Sign some workers, scrappers, players with grit. It’s a long way back with this squad

and promote our talented young players sooner rather than later, or worse, never

 

[Stewbojevic]

Just give the young guys a run. It's working for Parra now, did you see the passion they had. Its working for most teams that do it. F#ck me we are a pack of dinosaurs. Lodge and Brown absolutely zero impact off the bench. Anyone can run off the back fence, but it means nothing if thats all they do.

I would agree except… who are the young guys?

The Roosters have debuted about 5 young forwards this year. We don’t even have that many in our squad!

Navale… maybe Patolo? Do we have anyone else?

 

[lsz]

this constant blaming of the owners feels misplaced. They aren’t involved like Politis and I’m not sure we want them to be. Salaried staff run the joint. It’s fair to say we were always a factional mess until the Fulton influence was finally removed but surely the back office is now cohesive. The DCE saga aside, it feels less chaotic. Manly’s challenge is the lack of pathways compounded by some shocking retention and recruitment. We keep some players too long, let talent leave and pay far too much for a certain few, guaranteeing an unbalanced squad. The sharks, raiders, warriors, dogs all have their valued spread. But all base their squad on young strong forwards. Manly bizarrely believe a small but fast backline can overcome our average pack. Siebold didn’t build this squad but he’s done f’all to improve it. More aging forwards and typical inconsistency. We need a serious review of the team we want to be and the players we want to chase. No more weapons please. Sign some workers, scrappers, players with grit. It’s a long way back with this squad

Who decides what the salaried positions are?

Who decides how much of a budget to allocate to the pathways for the salaried staff to then execute? Removing the factions is certainly an element for things to be running smoother however if you believe that the current ownership looks at the lub as anything other than investment you are dreaming.

Now that is their right. They went through the phase where they had to put their money in (before the NRL grant covered so much etc) and are now, as business owners, getting the benefits.

But to say that blaming the owners is misplaced for me is a million miles off. Lets put it this way if the best credentialed but expensive coach was off contract do you honestly think we would be in the running for him?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Lets put it this way if the best credentialed but expensive coach was off contract do you honestly think we would be in the running for him?

[thinking...]
No!

 

[master blaster]

Yep, come on boys, we are 3 points from the bottom, you better pull your finger out and quick

 

[Peter C]

So a team needs a rich benefactor now if they are to be successful? Who is Canberra's rich benefactor?

The Raiders are quite wealthy in their own right, apparently they have a substantial property portfolio similar to the Roosters.
Having said that, even with a rich benefactor you're still governed by the salary, a club like Canberra has always had trouble recruiting players from Sydney, so they recruit some from ESL and from QLD, but they don't recruit aging hacks

 

[Bringbackcliffy]

Who decides what the salaried positions are?

Who decides how much of a budget to allocate to the pathways for the salaried staff to then execute? Removing the factions is certainly an element for things to be running smoother however if you believe that the current ownership looks at the lub as anything other than investment you are dreaming.

Now that is their right. They went through the phase where they had to put their money in (before the NRL grant covered so much etc) and are now, as business owners, getting the benefits.

But to say that blaming the owners is misplaced for me is a million miles off. Lets put it this way if the best credentialed but expensive coach was off contract do you honestly think we would be in the running for him?

Yep don’t disagree. The owners are not blameless and our back office ain’t no Arko or Stanton. I just expect the coaching staff to impart more influence over the squad than an owner who lives in NY. We haven’t lacked talent. We’ve lacked substance and desire. Speculating obviously but I’m guessing the same squad under Bellamy would have achieved much better results. This is a coaching issue. Sadly we are nearing toxic territory for prospective coaches and I agree, this management won’t attract anyone good. We can only hope Siebold dispenses with his weapons and top 4 windows. Just focus on building a squad who can and want to compete

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Trying to achieve success in the modern game on the back of a pack that is Dad!s Army is seriously flawed. The game is too fast for our pack whose defence at times is embarrassing. That is on Seibold and whoever else is involved in recruitment. We are too slow to promote young forwards into first grade. They don’t mature into first graders simply by playing reserve grade. 3 years is enough time for a coach to make his mark or show that he has nothing more to offer. We need a complete change of philosophy.

 

[Eagle 1]

Trying to achieve success in the modern game on the back of a pack that is Dad!s Army is seriously flawed. The game is too fast for our pack whose defence at times is embarrassing. That is on Seibold and whoever else is involved in recruitment. We are too slow to promote young forwards into first grade. They don’t mature into first graders simply by playing reserve grade. 3 years is enough time for a coach to make his mark or show that he has nothing more to offer. We need a complete change of philosophy.

Agree, That Parra pack was young and full of hard running. They saw the light and dropped plenty, ie; RCG, Cartwright, Lane, gave himself the flick, Joey Lusick and Joey Offenaghue etc.. sorry about the spelling.

 

[Thewestisbest]

He is responsible for sure.....and he should be looking at younger talent than Dads army..but its a moneyball approach which happens when you have very limited funds.

But to add balance to the situation, Seibold didnt sign the Turbo brothers and DCE to those monster contracts which have destroyed our salary cap.

Storm have Munster, Hughes, Pappy, Grant, Utoikamanu, JWH, Coates all on big contracts. They just signed Pahulu from the Titans. How's that for a moneyball signing!

 

[47MVEagle]

I believe we're currently in transition between the Fulton & DCE era to (hopefully) a new era of a more balanced team in regards to the salary cap & becoming a more competitive club in the NRL.

We've de-coupled ourselves from the western pathways, so our young talent coming through from there has dried up & we're waiting for/yet to see the results of the greenshoots in place in our local comp. I'm confident once they start coming through that we'll have a good supply of local youngsters to choose from.

With DCE leaving, we're freeing up a bit of cap to spend on improving our stocks & have replaced him with an acceptable (IMO) half in Fogarty for the next 3 years of our transition/rebuild.

It's been a hard 10-12 years as a supporter but I'm optimistically looking forward to the new era.

 

[Rocky]

Storm have Munster, Hughes, Pappy, Grant, Utoikamanu, JWH, Coates all on big contracts. They just signed Pahulu from the Titans. How's that for a moneyball signing!

I don't mind a couple of TKO, Brown, Lodge etc...just not 7 of them!

 

[nightster]

Storm have Munster, Hughes, Pappy, Grant, Utoikamanu, JWH, Coates all on big contracts. They just signed Pahulu from the Titans. How's that for a moneyball signing!

?

 

[Rocky]

?

Jelson Wsofa-Holomona?

 

[BOZO]

this constant blaming of the owners feels misplaced. They aren’t involved like Politis and I’m not sure we want them to be. Salaried staff run the joint. It’s fair to say we were always a factional mess until the Fulton influence was finally removed but surely the back office is now cohesive. The DCE saga aside,

Thank you for your perspective views feathered friend.

There is no misplacement of responsibility and accountability to any credible person that is involved in any Organisation . The Owners own the Business and they also Own the Profits and Losses and the Business Results

So you are not sure if you want our owners to be involved more ?
Well let me reassure you .
What is the negative of a Passionate and Proactive club Owners involvement ?
All Organisations are better off by more Passionate and Proactive Involvement from their owners

Your so called final factional Fulton ( God Bless his Manly Premiership Winning soul ) mess has Nothing to do with Mestrovs /DCE factional contract Negotiations and so we can not put that aside

The truth is Every board and every club has factions
No Board agrees 100%
No Family agrees 100%
No Political party agrees 100%
And I can tell you Not Many Passionate Manly People agree with the New Penn / Mestrov / Seibold Faction

 

[Thewestisbest]

?

Yes, NAS. Point still stands though.

Many Seibold defenders claim we can only sign older Moneyball signings because we have three guy,four if you include Haumole on big money. Which I find both hilarious and stupid.

Spoon is not a good coach and his list, bench and tactical management are puss.

 

[maxta]

Any side who is consistent, will field a consistent team.
Manly fail here with various ins and outs, including the most important sector - I hate the phrase but "Spine"... the FB out more often or injured than not and DCE is the only constant figure, with Brooks there....but can be very quiet and have little impact, certainly not a team general and at 9, we have simply been battling with 1 of the worst running and passing threat from dummy half since waving goodbye to Fainu and Api.
The forwards are inconsistent though play the odd solid game, but lack the speed/mobility of the Better sides.
Recruitment has been big ordinary and since that Myles signing not learned to look at the young guns from lower grades, though I think there are a few we finally have in the stables (right now) finally.
Like the other questions on where/how to improve your very right in trying fix the rot and build....but the frustrating part imo, is the fact we are not struggling in 1 area - but MANY !!