Tallyn Da Silva

[LeonardCohen]

We do have two very good young 9's coming through in Ashton Large (19) and Zaidas Muagututia (17). Watching him play you would have to think Ashton is not that far off making an NRL debut.

YeH, I thought Ashton was younger and a long way off debuting.

I guess the other thing is contracts aren’t a career prospect for clubs anymore and building a team is essentially 2-3 players on long contracts and the rest is a 2-3 year cycle. What I mean is, if we had De Silva (probably won’t happen, but hypothetically speaking) for three years and suddenly Large is ready to go and a better option, we just don’t re-sign De Silva.

There’s this belief that a player has to be signed as a forever prospect but that’s not the case. If there’s a better option today, go for it and worry about later when later comes. Sure, we don’t want to block a path but that path does not need to be cleared for players that are a good two or three years off first grade.

 

[Chunkytuna]

The real problem is Croker was a junior 5/8, who Manly made into a dummy half after losing both API and Fainu, as Croker does add "utility" value....but the 9 is a very specialist position.
Croker has enthusiasm and that is a MUST for any position, but lacks the key elements, making Manly possibly the WORST team across the NRL for many seasons in the KEY position.
Lacks -

Running threat
Vision - Choosing the best option
Passing ability
Getting his forwards over advantage line

And this is ALL of where the game starts, through the middle.....MASSIVE part of Manly falling short in recent years.

Croker is no saviour and in fact a NSW cup player with the ability to "fill in" when needed

Whilst I agree Croker is certainly not the best hooker running around, i think that summary of him is a little disrespectful. He’s more than a NSW cup player. His defence for a start, is excellent. He has a decent kicking game as well. His passing game is pretty good without being the best. Plus he is a great team man and the is loved amongst the playing group - which means a lot for team cohesion. I get the impression he’ll be retiring soon due to these continual injuries and head knocks and if so that is a sad way to end what has been a great career. Let’s give him credit for what his done and done extremely wholeheartedly. That said, I would also be excited at the prospect of dual hookers - Simpkin and Da Silva.

 

[maxta]

Whilst I agree Croker is certainly not the best hooker running around, i think that summary of him is a little disrespectful. He’s more than a NSW cup player. His defence for a start, is excellent. He has a decent kicking game as well. His passing game is pretty good without being the best. Plus he is a great team man and the is loved amongst the playing group - which means a lot for team cohesion. I get the impression he’ll be retiring soon due to these continual injuries and head knocks and if so that is a sad way to end what has been a great career. Let’s give him credit for what his done and done extremely wholeheartedly. That said, I would also be excited at the prospect of dual hookers - Simpkin and Da Silva.

It's great you rate him a reasonable NRL standard and I don't think your "disrespecting" me, it's simply your opinion and your entitled to it.
But I just want some clarity here on your opinion apart from "He can tackle".
What other NRL sides would start Croker at hooker ?
If he is available to other clubs tomorrow, are other teams rushing to sign him ?
I doubt it
And just at the end of your post where you like the prospect of Simpkin and Da Silva, this would see Croker either in NSW cup, which pretty much validates my point.....and deep down, most supporters would feel the same way yet still appreciate the heart Croker has played with almost every game.....there's NO personal attack and I like his attitude 100%, simply not good enough in the key position of dummy half.

 

[nightster]

I thought Aston was 16??

His brother Onitoni 18 right?

And I thought Zaidas was older? Posdibly 19

Yeah I might have got the ages wrong Ashton is 16 - Zaidas Muagututia 19 this year

 

[nightster]

YeH, I thought Ashton was younger and a long way off debuting.

I guess the other thing is contracts aren’t a career prospect for clubs anymore and building a team is essentially 2-3 players on long contracts and the rest is a 2-3 year cycle. What I mean is, if we had De Silva (probably won’t happen, but hypothetically speaking) for three years and suddenly Large is ready to go and a better option, we just don’t re-sign De Silva.

There’s this belief that a player has to be signed as a forever prospect but that’s not the case. If there’s a better option today, go for it and worry about later when later comes. Sure, we don’t want to block a path but that path does not need to be cleared for players that are a good two or three years off first grade.

Sorry LC - got the ages a bit confused - normal for me lately _ I tend to post less but read a lot of posts

 

[LeonardCohen]

Sorry LC - got the ages a bit confused - normal for me lately _ I tend to post less but read a lot of posts

No apology necessary. Interesting discussion

 

[Eagles4Life]

Whilst I agree Croker is certainly not the best hooker running around, i think that summary of him is a little disrespectful. He’s more than a NSW cup player. His defence for a start, is excellent. He has a decent kicking game as well. His passing game is pretty good without being the best. Plus he is a great team man and the is loved amongst the playing group - which means a lot for team cohesion. I get the impression he’ll be retiring soon due to these continual injuries and head knocks and if so that is a sad way to end what has been a great career. Let’s give him credit for what his done and done extremely wholeheartedly. That said, I would also be excited at the prospect of dual hookers - Simpkin and Da Silva.

I agree @Chunkytuna Croker is much closer to medical retirement than we have been told officially.

 

[eaglebuzz]

I really hope Muagututia proves himself ready of First Grade before season's end. If he does, I think Croker and GCKT drop back to NSW Cup for good, barring injuries. And as much as you can't fault him for effort, Croker is not a First Grade standard hooker and his persistence in the 9 has been a huge factor in our many years of underperformance.

 

[Rocky]

I really hope Muagututia proves himself ready of First Grade before season's end. If he does, I think Croker and GCKT drop back to NSW Cup for good, barring injuries. And as much as you can't fault him for effort, Croker is not a First Grade standard hooker and his persistence in the 9 has been a huge factor in our many years of underperformance.

I'm all for moving on from Croker. But he's no worse than Mitch Kenny who has multiple premierships.

 

[maxta]

I really hope Muagututia proves himself ready of First Grade before season's end. If he does, I think Croker and GCKT drop back to NSW Cup for good, barring injuries. And as much as you can't fault him for effort, Croker is not a First Grade standard hooker and his persistence in the 9 has been a huge factor in our many years of underperformance.

Some take it personally about Croker, but your 100% correct....it doesn't mean fans don't appreciate his heart, it's probably bigger than most, but the ability is unfortunately not u to what's needed as an NRL dummy half.

 

[eaglebuzz]

I'm all for moving on from Croker. But he's no worse than Mitch Kenny who has multiple premierships.

That's true. I'm sure that Croker would look a lot better playing with Cleary, Luai, Edwards, Yeo, Martin, JFH and Leota

 

[maxta]

I'm all for moving on from Croker. But he's no worse than Mitch Kenny who has multiple premierships.

Fair comparison in many ways
Kenny is certainly not flash or agile, but definitely more robust and is more of a threat than Croker....Croker is tough, but often still minced where Kenny is simply a stronger body

 

[Disco]

One of my little pet peeves is the use of 'not first grade standard' for players who've played 50, 100 or 150 first grade games.

 

[Ohgeez]

One of my little pet peeves is the use of 'not first grade standard' for players who've played 50, 100 or 150 first grade games.

Really? Wakeham has almost played 40 games of first grade & isn’t close to the standard. Sometimes there are just no other options

 

[eaglebuzz]

Really? Wakeham has almost played 40 games of first grade & isn’t close to the standard. Sometimes there are just no other options

Waddell has played nearly 100 first grade games too

 

[maxta]

One of my little pet peeves is the use of 'not first grade standard' for players who've played 50, 100 or 150 first grade games.

In literal terms so do I.
However when a player who has busted his guts and played out of position and is on the verge of medical retirement, it becomes reality.
Would be 3rd option at dummy half at best at majority of NRL clubs and no insult to a soldier of a player, but I believe that's where he fits today.
As a tribute to Croker, I also feel if every Msnly player played with his desire and guts, would be a shot to win any game

 

[Disco]

Waddell has played nearly 100 first grade games too

Waddell the perfect example IMO.

The guy has played 119 games at two NRL clubs.

I personally would have Navale ahead of him atm.

Happy for people to say he does not add value to our team or a top 8 team needs more contribution than what Waddell currently offers or whatever you like.

Just 'not first grade standard'........irritates me, could cop not a first grade regular, or not a starter or should only ever ne a depth option but but the guy is first grade standard as he has been for years a first grade player.

Dunno.....the term does have a place but is used way to liberally.

 

[maxta]

Waddell the perfect example IMO.

The guy has played 119 games at two NRL clubs.

I personally would have Navale ahead of him atm.

Happy for people to say he does not add value to our team or a top 8 team needs more contribution than what Waddell currently offers or whatever you like.

Just 'not first grade standard'........irritates me, could cop not a first grade regular, or not a starter or should only ever ne a depth option but but the guy is first grade standard as he has been for years a first grade player.

Dunno.....the term does have a place but is used way to liberally.

Good points and much I agree with
In fact in many ways the saying about "not up to 1st grade " in a way doesn't make sense, but can from a different view....as we are talking about players who have already played 1st grade right ??
But here's the point I try make
How good was BK ?
Absolute gun right
If he was busted, like struggling with injury even when in prime he would not be up to it.
There's been a few legends I've seen play who in the end ...sadly....we're not up to NRL standards and they have admitted to playing that season too long...
Seen some great players who have played 100's of NRL the past 25 years who become "not up to NRL" that then go over to Super League which is a similar standard to Qld or NSW Cup which is reserve grade.
Croker several years ago when fully fit and the game slower, was no Superstar but up to NRL standards and showed it, though lacking top shelf skills, he certainly had enough resilient toughness to get the job done.
I simply feel the game has sped dramatically and the role of a dummy half calls for a bit more spark than a gutsy, but broken down Croker can offer....so retain my opinion he is not up to NRL and feel Simpkin is clearly ahead today and the only reason Croker is still in the picture , is a lack of options at Manly at dummy half....hopefully this is clearer on my opinion, as seems to be a bit misinterpreted and without explanation, I can understand that.