Trump

[manlyfan76]

Re tariffs, part of the issue for me is how reactive and unplanned it all seems. I’m not convinced it’s part of a broader strategy. It feels more like improvisation than negotiation.

There’s definitely a place for tariffs in trade negotiations when they’re part of a clear plan, as outlined in the article you shared.

But “90 deals in 90 days”? The only reason things haven’t blown up more is the widespread assumption that Trump will eventually fold.....the “Trump taco” approach, if you like.

Did you see the recent interview when asked about deals he said " all I have to do is send a letter, Mr Japan: your tariff will be"

Really bad.

 

[lsz]

Did you see the recent interview when asked about deals he said " all I have to do is send a letter, Mr Japan: your tariff will be"

Really bad.

Agree

I watch a heap of his press conferences un edited / stream. I am amazed that the same (correct) questions asked of biden are not asked about Trump and his somewhat erratic approach.

I am not saying he is senile etc as that is impossible to judge but some of the stuff in those press conferences are wild

 

[Brookie1973]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-tariff-revenue-is-on-pace-for-another-monthly-record-in-june-170536916.html

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Trading in Chaos - Interesting Four Corners program on Trump's tariffs and trade wars. Already causing damage to businesses and workers in the US and raising geo-political tensions in all corners of the world.

Trading in Chaos

Four Corners is the home of Australian investigative journalism.

www.abc.net.au

 

[lsz]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-tariff-revenue-is-on-pace-for-another-monthly-record-in-june-170536916.html

Fair but who pays for it….

 

[h27272727]

It is also disappointing that we are once again going down the personal smear route. I can assure you I can post just as many articles calling into question the integrity/ethics/judgement of recent democratic leaders. It is also disappointing that the perennial “uneducated base” line gets another airing. As I have said before, I prefer to just debate actions and policies on their merits, without the moralising/grand standing/virtue signalling.

Well if I can’t say a large portion of his base is uneducated then it leaves them in a worse position; gullible, racist, ignorant or a mixture of the three

 

[Ranga]

@Brookie1973 I know what you’re asking from Santa for Christmas!

 

[Eagle 1]

Well if I can’t say a large portion of his base is uneducated then it leaves them in a worse position; gullible, racist, ignorant or a mixture of the three

jeez, this sounds like the Democrats going on what I've seen and heard.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

jeez, this sounds like the Democrats going on what I've seen and heard.

Criticising Trump doesn't mean you support Democrats. He's screwing Australia too (as well as just about everyone else)(aside from his billionaire buddies)(and his mates like Putin)

 

[Brookie1973]

Fair but who pays for it….

Tariffs are imposed on importers. They may choose to pass those costs onto consumers, in which case their goods will be relatively less attractive than those produced locally. Tariffs therefore protect and help develop local industries. At the other end of the spectrum is free trade, in which case local industries are potentially destroyed by cheaper products produced, for example, in 3rd world sweat shops, directly supporting and further entrenching those poor working conditions (see Nike sweatshops for example) whilst simultaneously destroying once prosperous industries in more developed nations. Remember when Australia had an auto industry? One could perhaps ponder the apparent inherent racism in supporting an arrangement that consigns menial production to 3rd world countries, whilst leaving developed nations to undertake “higher callings”, but that maybe a “debate”/discussion for another day.

 

[Brookie1973]

Why do people refuse to listen to opposing views?

Social psychologist Jeremy Frimer from the University of Winnipeg wanted to know why both liberals and conservatives have become so resistant to one-another's views. So he conducted an experiment.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[Brookie1973]

@Brookie1973 I know what you’re asking from Santa for Christmas!

Liberal tears?

 

[lsz]

Tariffs are imposed on importers. They may choose to pass those costs onto consumers, in which case their goods will be relatively less attractive than those produced locally. Tariffs therefore protect and help develop local industries. At the other end of the spectrum is free trade, in which case local industries are potentially destroyed by cheaper products produced, for example, in 3rd world sweat shops, directly supporting and further entrenching those poor working conditions (see Nike sweatshops for example) whilst simultaneously destroying once prosperous industries in more developed nations. Remember when Australia had an auto industry? One could perhaps ponder the apparent inherent racism in supporting an arrangement that consigns menial production to 3rd world countries, whilst leaving developed nations to undertake “higher callings”, but that maybe a “debate”/discussion for another day.

And we know that the importers, in most cases (but not all) pass that onto the consumer which in effect means that they are paying higher costs.

I do think there is a balance between no border free trade and high tariffs as well as the need to reduce sweat shop culture.

When i am not ranting on ST I work in ag and know the troubles the wool industry has competing with fast fashion made in those places...but as you said that is another conversation

 

[lsz]

Why do people refuse to listen to opposing views?

Social psychologist Jeremy Frimer from the University of Winnipeg wanted to know why both liberals and conservatives have become so resistant to one-another's views. So he conducted an experiment.

www.rnz.co.nz

One thing I have learnt through our "spirited" debates is that I have stopped trying to change yours / others minds and rather, even though I fundamentally disagree with most of what you say, at least try understand where you are coming from.

 

[h27272727]

My last few posts have been on the lazy side, i'll try provide more examples / reasoning.

Liberal tears?

One of the more curious MAGA catchphrases. Serious question, has there ever been a more sensitive, thin-skinned president or administration? Hegseth looks like he'll cry any time he is criticised or when a reporter asks a critical question, Levett throws kittens all the time whenever pressed for the truth. Trump's job as a president of a democratic country is to hear and react to criticism, but instead he just goes on his phone and blasts off at them, or cuts funding, aid (in the case of Californian fire response). Musk now standing up against his policies so he'll consider deporting him? Sorry, what?

Why do people refuse to listen to opposing views?

Social psychologist Jeremy Frimer from the University of Winnipeg wanted to know why both liberals and conservatives have become so resistant to one-another's views. So he conducted an experiment.

www.rnz.co.nz

Social media's tendency to place people in bubbles is the answer to that I suspect; in combination with the political rhetoric totally discrediting/demeaning all news sources that aren't sympathetic to their cause. 9 years in, the conclusion of this article - despite being valid initially and in most contexts - is now too optimistic for Americans. They are slowly but surely seeing their rights gradually removed as the current government imposes their beliefs on them; bypassing both law and congress on several occasions, and otherwise ignoring protests. There's the added question, is it really beneficial to give merit to the ideas of a reactionary social movement? MAGA can most certainly be classed as such; their politcal ideas are formed and reformed based on current reporting and events. Case studies of the Capitol riots, shifting stance on Russia/Ukraine, Musk (genious before infighting vs idiot after) etc.. This is a big topic that I fear most just write off as some form of 'fake news'. Nonetheless, I point people to at least skim through the attached research paper with open eyes. It delves into this idea in far greater detail than I am capable of.

Despite being anti-Christian in nature, MAGA is no doubt driven by a Christian right. Already removing the right for abortion, gay marriage is next cab off the rank. Few months ago the president undermined the credibility of all female workers in high positions by branding them DEI like a spiteful, ignorant 12 year old. Just today, he threatens to arrest and deport Zohran Mamdani for opposing the illegal ICE activities that symbolise the latest escalation in the war against civil rights and points towards political purging. He's already purged the FBI and navy/military ranks. Like Bernie Sanders, AOC and Jasmine Crockett, Mamdani is well-studied and has a firm, unwavering political ideology representing everything Trump is against. The panic from Trump and centre-right Democrat politicians (i.e. the 'old guard) indicates people like himself are seen as a huge threat. Mamdani winning in NY is a sign of the times and a sign of the perspectives on the ground - the Democratic party as it stands does not challenge this movement enough. Ironically, Mamdani's Democratic Socialist ideas are geared more towards helping Trump's MAGA base than Trump's 'tax cuts for the rich', 'cut the health programs', 'Tariff the world consumers' approach.

In the past, the two different parties worked together with respect. Both political leaders and supporter bases communicated more frequently like civilised humans (see Obama vs Romney election debate, compare to hillary, Biden, Kamala vs Trump to note differences). When Trump came to the scene it was clear from the start that his leading tactic was to drive division and you can absolutely see the result 9 or so years on.

Hence, it's no surprise to see phrases such as "Liberal tears", or references to 'owning the libs'. Nor is it surprising to see "uneducated" / "idiots" from those that happen to be disgusted by Trumpism like myself; but the reality is that many Republicans have already begun turning away from Trump. The reason for this is because this modern republican party now has Trump sycophants installed at all levels - the party as a whole is quickly moving away from their traditional stances/values (i.e. Russia, collaboration, global trade partnerships) to more hardline ones. It's at the stage where Trump threatens to oust people that oppose any of his ideas. This is a bi-partisan issue, many republicans have woken up to this and left. Those that remain aligned to this movement don't care what that means for democracy, because MAGA is an anti-democratic reactionary movement (referring back to that attached paper).

No matter how baseless some of his claims may be, Trump is undoubtedly effective at transitioning other republicans into MAGA - pushing the idea that left = extremist threat. To those taking the bait, news is no longer credible, so they isolate their news sources. Many opt to migrate social media platforms to X or Truth, where the content is controlled by the party (curious what Musk does with X now they've split ??). Every immigrant becomes a murdering rapist ruining their country, every international aid program becomes a leech rather than a soft power / humanitarian opportunity. Trade deficits become something of a symptom, rather than something natural and expected. They want to go back to a mythical time where America was great - but only great for some Americans. That brings in the racial element; for instance, when was America last great for black Americans?

I get a strong sense that a large portion of MAGA's base still entrenched in their positions are fundamentally incapable of being reasoned with in any meaningfully way. I've heard many stories of families breaking apart in the US due to this whole thing, so it has dug itself deep. This is really no surprise for a group constantly told that anything critical is 'fake news' and that the opposition is extreme. Also no surprise, given the people within the party shamelessly lie, divide and demean.