What will turn Manly from a good side into a great side

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Seagles68

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
The team has points and the only things that can hold this team back from the next level is defence and being more mentally strong 🦅🦅
Certainly defence but I do think they are demonstrating they are more mentally stronger than recent years. Altho, it's all relative. I do think we need a quality back rower to compliment Guac and a quality centre to compliment Koula. Rubes is still the best winger (all round game) at the club.
 
Would we win either game if DCE was not playing?
Not a chance.
Congratulations on working out that if you remove any teams first choice starting half from a game they win, it probably is less likely to be a winning performance without them.

Or you could say Manly have two of the highest paid attacking players in the game and yet many games our attack looks inconsistent and lacking a composed clinical nature about it of a quality in keeping with the financial investment in this area of the game.

Sure a double pump that draws Sivo in on the short side looks good, could of been planned on video and should be admired and applauded, conversely i see DCE throw many low quality high risk uncomposed short side balls that commentators don't take aim at, yet one great pass holds the commentators attention for the next 10yrs.

DCE's performances from a fitness and effort standpoint i will always admire even more so now at his playing age, an absolute professional in being in shape and looking after himself but for the amount of all round talent he possesses(and i rate him extremely highly in this regard) he makes too many poor rushed decisions and all or nothing plays devoid of composed class.

I have said many times over the last few years that DCE's best performances will be his latter years as he slows down a little and is surrounded with more ballplaying options. Manly will get better value now than we have in the past as evident of last years display which showed some of his biggest growth as a half.(when this should of been evident a decade ago.)

DCE and Tom are on money that should be bringing out the qualities in others and making them stars also in the same way the Melb stars made names of unknowns, Parra stars of the past, Raiders stars of the past, Broncos stars of the past, Penrith stars of the past and present, we haven't seen that kind of impact from our highly paid attacking leaders so that tells me not enough thought in the right areas of the game are being pushed and developed.

I want to see consistent composed quality and impact we can rely on in keeping with their standing and payment in the game, when that happens Manly become a dominant consistent top tier team, not this fluctuating flat deck looking good outfit we have seen for the last 5-7yrs.
 

double hoops

First Grader
Well said Tech C.

You wouldn't trade DCE for anyone. I just know as good as he is, he could have even better. Which when your a Qld Captain is still saying something.

His game just seemed unwilling to grow and learn at different stages of his footy. I don't know if that's a lack of coaching at Man, or lack of man management by a brave coach at Man.

Barrett era kicking game. Was just Yuck. Regressed.

Yet took just one origin camp to bring back the spiral bomb that was almost never seen after 2011. Than magically expanded to the inside spiral at same time as well.

I still wish he would've accepted the goal kicking duties. It would've helped his game more broadly.

If there is just one one thing I'd still love to see our Turtle show us before he hangs up the boots. It's that composure.

If the penny ever does click with our headless chook at the gate, wouldn't it be a sight for sore eyes if he ever can possess that footballing ability to make time stand still.
 
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Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Well said Tech C.

You wouldn't trade DCE for anyone. I just know as good as he is, he could have even better. Which when your a Qld Captain is still saying something.

His game just seemed unwilling to grow and learn at different stages of his footy. I don't know if that's a lack of coaching at Man, or lack of man management by a brave coach at Man.

Barrett era kicking game. Was just Yuck. Regressed.

Yet took just one origin camp to bring back the spiral bomb that was almost never seen after 2011. Than magically expanded to the inside spiral at same time as well.

I still wish he would've accepted the goal kicking duties. It would've helped his game more broadly.

If there is just one one thing I'd still love to see our Turtle show us before he hangs up the boots. It's that composure.

If the penny ever does click with our headless chook at the gate, wouldn't it be a sight for sore eyes if he ever can possess that footballing ability to make time stand still.


Will be a sad day when DCE retires. But I suspect he'll be back as a coach before the end of the decade.
 

Will on the hill

Bencher
Tipping Member
Will be a sad day when DCE retires. But I suspect he'll be back as a coach before the end of the decade.
I'd love DCE to be our head coach eventually but I see him taking a media gig and doing part time halves consultancy.

He'd have to really want it to take on the pressure of coaching when he could earn more, have more security and better work/life balance elsewhere.

I'd be happy to see him in commentary with a blatant Manly bias. Kinda like an articulate Fatty.
 

XV-1

First Grader
You only have to watch last night's match between Penrith and Cowboys.

Penrith defence was unbelievable. They do it 9 out of every 10 weeks. Their systems are just incredible.

Always go up in a straight line and fast.
Always have 3 in the tackle, then extremely fast to be back in the D line
Always do the 1 percenters and back each other up.

Contrast that to Manly.

We are good, but have zero hope at this point in winning the 2024 premiership.

Add stop making stupid unforced errors, especially when we are leading easily and don't need to push the ball.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
The forwards are bringing energy Mostly The bench makes us stronger. Brooks is playing a good foil. Turbo is probing but well watched as our go to man

hooker is struggling more this season , both starting and bench. The frog has to be hurt

that pass DCE threw at Saab is almost identical to the move that killed off any chance of a comeback in one of the 21 finals. Put saab into touch once we were getting back

as a team our mental toughness has been waaay off for years . That toughness is benchmarked by our elite players. Over 6 or 7 years DCE has been the only constant elite benchmark And his beneral play and our teams undebelly are like twins

despite his massive skillset and impecible attitude, his status with the game, his position and captaincy has meant that benchmark has remained way lower than it should . Who tells off DCE on field for his multiple examples of not earning the right first

he really is a good player but for manly, the longer he has his hands on the wheel , the longer we will be fragile and forever fear the footsteps

if DCE wants to win a title he should go into a good system where he is second or third fiddle like he is for qld where he is possibly 4 th. Play his role, do what Nathan brown is doing now but elsewhere. He has achieved plenty

he will no doubt have a envious highlight reel by seasons end but the blunder reel would equal in its numbers and be as ugly as the highlights would be pretty

DCE is right out there in the dally M but i dont even think he is the best half at manly over the season. But that example shows how community acceptance can sometimes outweigh form in the media, and how that is swallowed up.
 
I think we lack a few "never give up,never give in" players, especially in the forwards. In years gone by, when manly was under the pump, it was guys like Matai and Watmough who would do the tough runs out of our own territory etc. They didn't do it sporadically (like some of our current players), they did it every week. Last night very few manly forwards ran hard, and they all seemed to want to stutter and skip in their running before hitting the line. Penrith forwards never do that - they go hard every week irrespective of the scoreline or the opposition. Both individually and collectively they have "mongrel". The absence of that mongrel, to me, is a big part of our soft underbelly.
 

mickqld

Sea Eagle forever
Tipping Member
Just look at the amount of strapping on Paseka , Aloiai, Croker , Brown, Sipley plus Lodge coming back from acl. Too big, too slow and struggling to go up tempo when needed. Until they get past these injuries then it'll be more of the same. They were gassed in the last 20 min , couldn't keep up and it showed.
 

sheridanstand78

First Grader
For many years our spine has held us back. We need to get in a 9 that creates from dummy half to take the pressure off our halves.

DCE creates a lot of opportunities as a ball player and you know you will get the odd wild pass or brain explosion from him,

What Manly need is some balance, cool heads when we have a lead, manage a game and have some game awareness which was missing in a big way last night.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Just look at the amount of strapping on Paseka , Aloiai, Croker , Brown, Sipley plus Lodge coming back from acl. Too big, too slow and struggling to go up tempo when needed. Until they get past these injuries then it'll be more of the same. They were gassed in the last 20 min , couldn't keep up and it showed.
Having a squad of 26 wont be helping. I suspect we have little coin for this year and will promote cheapies quite late to avoid paying extra weeks wages. So i suspect the bandage brigade will be asked to do plenty
 
Will be a sad day when DCE retires. But I suspect he'll be back as a coach before the end of the decade.
Lacks leadership qualities and a clear mindset on how to deliver a "team" performance that is consistent and repeatable, he knows how to motivate himself(which is a good thing from a personal perspective) but not how to motivate and bring on board the "collective" mindset that puts everyone on the same page, wavelength and game plan.

He will make a good assistant coach and halves coach where he can get into a more "one on one" role and being able to pick out moments in games to take advantage of, he lacks the deeper science behind the game thinking mindset that knows how to "create the lead-up beforehand so that this moment can come to be".

The types of personalities that make great coaches tend to be the average players who study hard on what it takes to make it, know the qualities of others inside out(even though they lack the natural abilities of others to perform those exact same qualities or skills) and have a perfectionist hard working nature that gets the most out of themselves and also rubs off on others.
 
For many years our spine has held us back. We need to get in a 9 that creates from dummy half to take the pressure off our halves.

DCE creates a lot of opportunities as a ball player and you know you will get the odd wild pass or brain explosion from him,

What Manly need is some balance, cool heads when we have a lead, manage a game and have some game awareness which was missing in a big way last night.
1) It's more than the "odd wild pass or brain explosion" in relative terms to the best in the game, it consistently shows up in his play. The sad thing is DCE "technique" wise in his passing and kicking skillset along with some of his running game(in the rare moments he is direct) is of top notch quality but he is let down by a hyper rushed mind that when given time to "overthink" makes too many errors.

2)You can flourish with a reliable hard working hooker that is not flashy or you can flourish with a hooker that creates especially at his price point in the game.

3)We had Api and didn't use him right or build confidence around him to extract his qualities(even though Api's passing out of dummy half is poor), we have Croker who is hard working and strong but lacking the spark in the middle but in saying that we had Ballin who was hard working with the best crisp delivery in the game both sides of the ruck yet he lacked spark to create in the middle and Manly were still successful.

In saying that Manly are now lacking ballplaying depth in the squad from the loss of Foran,Schuster and Walker so the lack of spark and creativity out of dummy half will highlight our limitations more, so yes you are right but it is not an excuse for DCE's brain snaps at his price point in the game.

Sure one can say "surrounded in stars" DCE will not feel the pressure and focal point of coming up with the right play all the time and can sit back and choose his moments more, which then brings into question "how good he really is".
 
Team P W L PD Pts
17 14 3 141 34
17 12 5 118 30
17 11 6 125 28
18 11 7 209 26
18 10 7 97 25
17 9 8 63 24
17 9 8 46 24
18 10 8 3 24
17 9 8 -56 24
17 8 9 -91 22
18 8 10 25 20
17 7 10 -90 20
18 8 10 -97 20
18 7 10 -34 19
17 6 11 -89 18
17 4 13 -153 14
18 4 14 -217 12
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