Where are we actually sitting ?

[Kiwi Eagle]

Plenty of doom and gloom at the moment after losing 6 on the bounce, and rightly so, but I thought I’d take a step back and have a proper look at it, and exactly how bad it all is

Straight up obviously the injury toll has absolutely killed us, it isn’t so much the quantity of injury, but the quality of injury moreso with key guys going down. What also hasn’t helped is that it hasn’t just been 1 in a game, it has been 2 or 3, and they happen early. 1 your stretched and can cover ok, but once you’re getting more, especially in the backs, you’re in big trouble trying to cover it. What has come out of the position that we are in, is that we are in a position to have a look at some different blokes for a month and see what they offer going forward. Our depth is always mentioned, I don’t think our depth is actually that bad, but the trouble is we aren’t on the next line of the depth chart, we are right at the bottom of it

What gives me belief in next season, is that we showed at the start of this season, with troops on deck, that we are right in there. With the most unkind draw in the comp, we should have been leading after 6 weeks.
Having a look at the results, the flogging obviously stand out, and they can be a by product of many factors. What struck me though, is that we have lost 5 matches by 4 points or less, in the comp with extremely small margins, when you pick up those results, you can move up the ladder rapidly, Canberra are the best example of that when you compare 2018 to 2019, a mile out of the race, to grand finalists

My main concerns, wing would be top of the list, Garrick was a mile off this season and we don’t have anyone banging the door down to take a spot.
Obviously the Fainu situation would be the other one and where that lands over the offseason. If it is Levi again, I’d like to see more minutes for him, he isn’t perfect but I think we look better with him on the park

Backline is the part of the jigsaw we need to put together right and haven’t had the chance to this season. The next few weeks of Schuster is key if his ankle is ok, if he can cement a spot and look the goods, Walker pushes out wider and our centres with Him, Suli, Funa and Harper look a mile better with Parker down the pecking order. If Hopoate is still with us, it is a huge offseason for him to get ready to step up into a potential wing role with the fitness for fullback cover in his legs

Our pack is great, Thompson is a hole to fill, but Jack impressed me enough last night when he was there to think he might be able to do it. Our front row rotation is probably the best in the comp, no dramas there. Jake we probably need to reassess, he isn’t playing poorly at all and is doing the job asked of him, but we can use him better and get more out of him. The lack of Olakau’atu and Sipley has been the most perplexing thing for me this season at times when we have been down on troops up front

Hasler has been flogged for apparently not giving young guys a crack, but that is a bit of a myth. Funa, Garrick, Suli, Keppie, Paseka, Cust, Waddell, Goseiwski, Harper, Hopoate, Schuster, olakau’atu off the top of my head are all in the infancy of their nrl careers and most will be better for the experience of this season. Not all of them will make it or be upto it in the future, but at least we have had or are going to have a decent look at them

Wrapping it all up after going off on a few tangents, there is plenty to look forward to next season potentially, but in the NRL competition you need a lot of luck and we haven’t had any for quite a while now. Des needs to tinker with a few aspects of our play over the offseason, but the bones are there for a good run. What we have potentially coming through the ranks (Schuster, Hopoate, Trbojevic 3, Fainu 2 etc) to add to what we already have is exciting. Half fit we are a top 8 certainty, if a miracle happens and Fainu is cleared to go, we push higher up the rungs

The most pleasing part is that we aren’t stuck in the Titans/Dogs zone where you couldn’t see any upside for many years

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

A shock to read an assessment devoid of hysteria, but thank you!
Our depth has been our Achilles heel, but mainly due to covid wiping out the lower grades.
I agree we actually have plenty of talent though I think hooker is still our biggest problem. We'll need to work hard with Levi (if we are keeping him) to be more selective in his choices.
The difference between success and failure in NRL is pretty small these days, so I'm confident for next year, but that's on the basis Turbo recovers OK. If his injury becomes chronic and it stifles his career that could have a terrible impact on morale!

 

[The Who]

Our depth has not been our problem; our problem has largely been with poor selections.
Ten weeks ago you'll see threads that Jorge wasn't up to the current style of RL. Many of us saw it yet our coaching staff persisted. It cost us try after try with kicks over his head.
We knew that Walker wasn't the answer at 5/8 yet even when he was injured the coaching staff refused to give The Shoe a chance. We knew he was a budding champion; in fact everyone except our coaching staff knew it. We knew he'd improve our attack and our kicking game, which was the worst in the league. Why didn't the coaches who are paid handsomely recognise this?
They persisted with Elliot, Jetski, Duck, Parker when we all knew they were not of NRL standard.
They gave Guaca one crack and he proved a revelation. Then they banished him and reverted back to proven failures.
They kept 11 rostered players out in the cold, and even now six of them have never been given their chance.
I don't hold grudges against the players who have not performed because they were never up to NRL standard. They kept being selected, and for the most part played up to their ability.
But I begrudge the bone-head selectors because they are paid to know better.

 

[wombatgc]

The most pleasing part is that we aren’t stuck in the Titans/Dogs zone where you couldn’t see any upside for many years

I don’t know about no upside for the Tits. Incoming for 2021 David Fifita, Big Tino, Herman ese ese. Strong talk that Mal has got Kotoni Staggs lined up. And that Fermor has great speed for a forward.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

I don’t know about no upside for the Tits. Incoming for 2021 David Fifita, Big Tino, Herman ese ese. Strong talk that Mal has got Kotoni Staggs lined up. And that Fermor has great speed for a forward.

100%, im talking where they’ve been the last 2-3 seasons

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Our depth has not been our problem; our problem has largely been with poor selections.
Ten weeks ago you'll see threads that Jorge wasn't up to the current style of RL. Many of us saw it yet our coaching staff persisted. It cost us try after try with kicks over his head.
We knew that Walker wasn't the answer at 5/8 yet even when he was injured the coaching staff refused to give The Shoe a chance. We knew he was a budding champion; in fact everyone except our coaching staff knew it. We knew he'd improve our attack and our kicking game, which was the worst in the league. Why didn't the coaches who are paid handsomely recognise this?
They persisted with Elliot, Jetski, Duck, Parker when we all knew they were not of NRL standard.
They gave Guaca one crack and he proved a revelation. Then they banished him and reverted back to proven failures.
They kept 11 rostered players out in the cold, and even now six of them have never been given their chance.
I don't hold grudges against the players who have not performed because they were never up to NRL standard. They kept being selected, and for the most part played up to their ability.
But I begrudge the bone-head selectors because they are paid to know better.

A lot of that is extremely subjective, for example I don’t agree at all on Walker, we have a track record of playing better when he is wearing the number 6 jersey. Reminds me a lot of the “Jamie Lyon will never be a 6” when he came here, 18 months later he was a grand final winning 6

The bone-headed selectors knew a lot better on Paseka, who was being slammed from pillar to post unfairly on here and everyone wanted out of the side. They also knew better with Albert Hopoate, who is clearly not quite ready now yet for 10 weeks has been a must pick at fullback when he hasn’t got the match fitness yet for centre

I don’t believe they’ve got every selection correct, but they haven’t got them all wrong either

 

[Waz13]

Our depth has not been our problem; our problem has largely been with poor selections.
Ten weeks ago you'll see threads that Jorge wasn't up to the current style of RL. Many of us saw it yet our coaching staff persisted. It cost us try after try with kicks over his head.
We knew that Walker wasn't the answer at 5/8 yet even when he was injured the coaching staff refused to give The Shoe a chance. We knew he was a budding champion; in fact everyone except our coaching staff knew it. We knew he'd improve our attack and our kicking game, which was the worst in the league. Why didn't the coaches who are paid handsomely recognise this?
They persisted with Elliot, Jetski, Duck, Parker when we all knew they were not of NRL standard.
They gave Guaca one crack and he proved a revelation. Then they banished him and reverted back to proven failures.
They kept 11 rostered players out in the cold, and even now six of them have never been given their chance.
I don't hold grudges against the players who have not performed because they were never up to NRL standard. They kept being selected, and for the most part played up to their ability.
But I begrudge the bone-head selectors because they are paid to know better.

Depth is an issue Who. Fully fit we are top 4 contenders, take a few out and we are bottom 4 contenders. I’d go so far to say that there’s not a team in the comp that bounces so widely up/down the table then us based on a few being out. I agree on sone of the selection debates tho but not all.

 

[manlyfan76]

From reading the ex-perts on here our problems are
1) Des
2) DCE contract
3) Tapow contract
If we get rid of the three of them we would be winning.
Apparently.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

A lot of that is extremely subjective, for example I don’t agree at all on Walker, we have a track record of playing better when he is wearing the number 6 jersey. Reminds me a lot of the “Jamie Lyon will never be a 6” when he came here, 18 months later he was a grand final winning 6

The bone-headed selectors knew a lot better on Paseka, who was being slammed from pillar to post unfairly on here and everyone wanted out of the side. They also knew better with Albert Hopoate, who is clearly not quite ready now yet for 10 weeks has been a must pick at fullback when he hasn’t got the match fitness yet for centre

I don’t believe they’ve got every selection correct, but they haven’t got them all wrong either

Agreed - Walker is the least of our problems!

 

[Waz13]

A lot of that is extremely subjective, for example I don’t agree at all on Walker, we have a track record of playing better when he is wearing the number 6 jersey. Reminds me a lot of the “Jamie Lyon will never be a 6” when he came here, 18 months later he was a grand final winning 6

The bone-headed selectors knew a lot better on Paseka, who was being slammed from pillar to post unfairly on here and everyone wanted out of the side. They also knew better with Albert Hopoate, who is clearly not quite ready now yet for 10 weeks has been a must pick at fullback when he hasn’t got the match fitness yet for centre

I don’t believe they’ve got every selection correct, but they haven’t got them all wrong either

Yep agree, but re Walker I think he’s one we move on as he still may have some value in the market. Don’t think we need him anymore.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

100%, im talking where they’ve been the last 2-3 seasons

I was a bit worried you were throwing rocks at the Dogs and the Titans, Kiwi - two teams we need to play and will both probably beat us. But I get what you're saying.

Everything has gone wrong at once this year and Des hasn't been able to get anything out of the players left standing. We look like a rabble and we're playing without confidence. Losing six in a row will do that to a team. The most concerning thing has been the amount of points we've leaked. There's just no commitment to defence or each other, and that's not an easy fix.

In the long term, our biggest issue is that we rely so heavily on a single player - Tommy T - and fall in a heap when he's gone. Which isn't great seeing as though he regularly falls in a heap himself. If we have a "premiership window" right now, it's entirely dependent on Tommy's health. If he goes down again next season, Silvertails will not be a happy place to be.

We need a better plan than simply trying to hang in there and jag a few wins while we wait for Tommy to come back. Because chances are we'll be waiting again sooner or later.

 

[robbiea]

From reading the ex-perts on here our problems are
1) Des
2) DCE contract
3) Tapow contract
If we get rid of the three of them we would be winning.
Apparently.

yes,
but complete opposite.
haha

 

[manly al]

Probably where we deserve to be and for a range of factors , certainly a terrible run with injuries but other sides who have still managed some success this season have had some injury setbacks as well and have even rested some key players However they seem to have the playing systems and discipline in attack and especially defence in place to hold their game together , still play as a solid unit and good consistency level . Sure also that an experience issue has played a part in Manly "s inability to keep themselves in some games but still has been a core of seasoned players regularly taking the field . Usually Des "s Manly coached sides could pride themselves in defence , even down on quality players , and can not just be the minor rule changes this year making them look as a rabble and non professional on many occasions this season . Need some key personal back and some positional improvements but had better get that 80 minute hunger level back especially in defence if they want some better outcomes and pride levels .

 

[The Who]

Depth is an issue Who. Fully fit we are top 4 contenders, take a few out and we are bottom 4 contenders. I’d go so far to say that there’s not a team in the comp that bounces so widely up/down the table then us based on a few being out. I agree on sone of the selection debates tho but not all.

I come at the depth question from a simple perspective:
How can you know what your depth is until you try all options?

 

[Simonmyers11]

Just want better luck with injuries next year. If most of the full strength side can stay on park can compete very well, have not had a full strength side on the field for any length of time which is very frustrating.
Hooker the only real concern. Defence structure will be fixed over off season

 

[Briza]

What's happened with you Zac saddler? I thought he was was good last year.

 

[sheridanstand78]

The basics of where we are right now are simple. We are scoring on average 6 points a game less and conceding 6 points a game more on average compared to last season.

To start the year without an established 9 and by the end of round 6 to be four wins and two losses was a great effort and in that time the team averaged 15 points against is a stark contrast to our current defence.

What certainly ended our season as a threat was that round 6 when Dylan and Tom both suffered serious injuries and since that round we have really been able to cover those losses.

From round 12-16 was a period when changes were needed as our depth was clearly being exposed week in and week out and the defence conceded over 30 points a game.

Its been a disjointed and disruptive year and we learned a heck of lot about who is not cutting it anymore and I hope over the next 3 weeks we learn a lot about what some of our younger players can do.

For 2021, we MUST fix our problem at hooker. We cannot afford another season without any end product as it just smashes our halves.

We also need an injection of creativity and genuine speed to help us match the top teams out there. We must be a whole lot better with our attacking kicking game so that we pose a threat to our opponents rather than just hand the ball back.

I am excited by the next few games as this is a chance to see our future. Its been a bad season and you get them. What we need is some luck with injuries in 2021 as its nailed us big time this season!

 

[maxta]

Some good signs with a few young blokes looking the goods...with Tom T back and these young guns and possibly 1-2 astute signings, have a Red hot side in 2021 I reckon

 

[Shnorky]

12th I believe