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NZ Police have restated that no crime was committed.

"Johns investigation will not be reopened"
http://news.smh.com.au/sport/league/johns-investigation-wont-be-reopened-20090514-b3uw.html

Sure this case raises moral issues but I think that is for society as a whole to face and change, not just rugby league players.

Whilst there are blokes out there willing to participate in group sex the same judgement has to be applied to those females who also wish to be involved.
 
I think Matty, like him or not has copped a raw deal for something that happened when he was young and dumb, even though no crime was committed. I feel sorry for the bloke. I also feel sorry for the woman, there are no winners here.

But in all no crime was committed and he has lost his career for something he did as a dumb mid 20's boy with his football team.

You all have your heads in the sand if there is nothing questionable in anyway in your past
 
Dan link said:
I think Matty, like him or not has copped a raw deal for something that happened when he was young and dumb, even though no crime was committed. I feel sorry for the bloke. I also feel sorry for the woman, there are no winners here.

But in all no crime was committed and he has lost his career for something he did as a dumb mid 20's boy with his football team.

You all have your heads in the sand if there is nothing questionable in anyway in your past

He was 30 and married when it happened.  Not in the young and dumb class I think. 
 
Any sex with a complete stranger is bound to be risky. You are walking on uncharted waters really, who's to say that despite consent a particular act can cause another person grief. I think from what i have read and viewed this seems to be a case of the girl involved being up for what happened, however, during the course of the act things became out of 'her' control and not the intimate group sex that she might have invisioned (if there is such a thing). Turning more into a production line of right im done mate now its your turn in the piece of meat.

At no point have i read that it was not constented, however, at no point can you imagine from a females perspective would that be pleasent. Already feeling degraded and out of her depth being surrounded by 12 od blokes she might not have had it in her to object to what was happening, rather deciding to just continue on and pray for its ending.

If in fact that is the case then who is really at fault? Its like a case of asking a fat lady when she is due to give birth. For all intesive purposes you are being polite doing what you think is ok and acceptable, however, unbenowns to you it will inflict emotional torment on someone. If she never actually said hey guys im not comfortable with this, you can't really place a finger of blame on any of the footballers who stood around partaking in consensual group sex never once being told i need to stop.

On another note, does anyone here think that standing around in a room with 12 of your mates jacking off is just a little bit gay? The 'group' in group sex is what gives it its aura and when you consider that male to female ratio of the cronulla incident is 12:1 it kind of makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Thats a massive ratio of boners to pussy for me to have wanted stand there and get a wood...
 
mwsneagle link said:
NZ Police have restated that no crime was committed.

\"Johns investigation will not be reopened\"
http://news.smh.com.au/sport/league/johns-investigation-wont-be-reopened-20090514-b3uw.html

Sure this case raises moral issues but I think that is for society as a whole to face and change, not just rugby league players.

Whilst there are blokes out there willing to participate in group sex the same judgement has to be applied to those females who also wish to be involved.
When people face complex matters that don't fit into neat buckets, there is a tendency to simplify and overstate.  The statement that no crime was committed is merely a legal judgement by the one policeman in charge. Different people may form different opinions when faced with the same facts.  He can only rely on the evidence available to him and that conclusion has not changed.  If he changed his conclusion from 7 years ago because of the four corners revelations, none of which was new, then people would question his competence. 12 witnesses to one, which is he to prefer? Legal precedents that took silence as consent, what can he do?  Children subject to rape are often silent, and may even be active and complicit participants, but does that stop the ensuing damage? An age of consent of 16 is based on average development, and is a balance between protection of the class of people identified as vulnerable and disempowered, and overregulation.  Who turns from vulnerable and disempowered to invulnerable and empowered on their 16th birthday? Did this girl?

As you say, the legal action does not equate with moral action. Tendency to form black and white judgements is an indicator of superficial analysis.

Is it possible to empathise with Johns without dehumanising the girl, is it possible to empathise with the girl without dehumanising Johns?  Is it possible, at the same time, to empathise with both and dehumanise neither?
 
Rex link said:
[quote author=Kiwi Eagle link=topic=180349.msg222617#msg222617 date=1242191026]

TBH, I really don't have the time, or will, to go on and on about this with you

I haven't seen the show, what I have seen is her version of events in the local rag in Chch, and I have seen Johns response

YOu say I want you to believe what I am saying, I really couldn't give a stuff if you believe it or not. You call them rumours or whatever you like, coming from somebody who worked beside her for a period of time, both leading into and post the event, I can form an opinion from that If i choose

I can't be bothered answering all your questions, just the last one will do.

I am not trying to make anybody guilty or innocent, you are the bloke doing that after a show that provided 1 side of a story.

And you can stop the lecturing to me about the mental state of people having suicidal thoughts, and rape victims and the like. I have far more experience in this area than you would presume

Anyhow, this is a footy forum, so back to the footy for me

lol. I didn't expect an answer to even one of those questions ... questions have the potential to reveal far more than answers.  But your emotions, interpretations and projections were spicy forum reading Kiwi.

You were interested in people here getting third-hand or fourth-hand or whatever the hearsay smears about her. And you don't care if people believe them, but you do and that's why you support Matty Johns' participation in the bun.

Her background might be relevant if the focus was her - except this is a footy forum. Not a NZ pub waitress forum, much as we all love New Zealand and pubs and waitresses. And except whatever claims are made about her here are smokescreens ... irrelevant...  when discussing Matty Johns' actions.  Yes?  She could have been anyone.  Johns didn't care to find out anything about her, not even her age being 19.  He said he wouldn't have engaged in any of those acts if he knew her age.  He said his actions were immoral.

Seems Matty Johns disagrees with your assessment, Kiwi.
[/quote]

If you want me to answer questions, put them into a list, and I will answer them for you if you like.

Interested to know what these questions may reveal about me, can you elaborate on that ? Are you saying that because I don't agree with your view my attitude to females is that they get what they deserve or something similar ?

The reason I put what I know about this girl up here, quite simple. All the Johns bashing is coming from a 1 sided documentary, showing 1 side of the story, what is wrong with trying to balance the marks on his character with some info on her ?

My assessment ? All my assessment is that he had broken no laws, and therefore did should not have lost his job from an incident 7 years ago. Pretty simple really. The morality matter is all personal opinion, personally it isn't my go, but if people like that sort of thing, isn't really my business 1 way or the other
 
KE I think the majority of the population are incredulous that any girl would willingly allow 12 blokes to do what they did without their being some issue of coersion or abuse of power. 
 
Matabele link said:
[quote author=Kiwi Eagle link=topic=180349.msg222617#msg222617 date=1242191026]

TBH, I really don't have the time, or will, to go on and on about this with you

I haven't seen the show, what I have seen is her version of events in the local rag in Chch, and I have seen Johns response

YOu say I want you to believe what I am saying, I really couldn't give a stuff if you believe it or not. You call them rumours or whatever you like, coming from somebody who worked beside her for a period of time, both leading into and post the event, I can form an opinion from that If i choose

I can't be bothered answering all your questions, just the last one will do.

I am not trying to make anybody guilty or innocent, you are the bloke doing that after a show that provided 1 side of a story.

And you can stop the lecturing to me about the mental state of people having suicidal thoughts, and rape victims and the like. I have far more experience in this area than you would presume

Anyhow, this is a footy forum, so back to the footy for me

An admission of defeat if I've ever seen it.
[/quote]

Or an admission that I don't have a job that see's me in front of a computer all day, and evenings that are heavily taken up by League Training and Indoor Cricket, so I don't want to waste my time on this
 
Matabele link said:
KE I think the majority of the population are incredulous that any girl would willingly allow 12 blokes to do what they did without their being some issue of coersion or abuse of power. 

Fair enough, and that is her side of the story, but where has the balance been with the other side of the story. If she was dragged into it kicking and screaming and made massive efforts to get out of there, it would be a different story.
I certainly would have no interest in being 1 of the group of fella's participating in that sort of activity, not my scene at all, but just because I wouldn't be involved in that activity I don't believe gives me the right to say the bloke involved should lose his job

There is also probably a majority of population that see Stewart and a dirty evil little fella, doesn't mean he did it either

FFS, You have drawn me in again you bastard, I am trying to stay out of this topic !!
 
What if it was your sister or daughter Kiwi?  And Brett's case is entirely different.  Brett is not a highly paid TV performer.  It's John's so called reputation as a clean skin that brought him down.  Nine has made a commercial decision and ultimately as the employer they can do as they please.  His conduct was unacceptable as deemed by his employer, so they punted him.  End of story.  And I'm certain they won't employ Brett or Choc or Matai to front any footie show in the future.     
 
DSM5 link said:
What if it was your sister or daughter Kiwi?  And Brett's case is entirely different.  Brett is not a highly paid TV performer.  It's John's so called reputation as a clean skin that brought him down.  Nine has made a commercial decision and ultimately as the employer they can do as they please.  His conduct was unacceptable as deemed by his employer, so they punted him.  End of story.  And I'm certain they won't employ Brett or Choc or Matai to front any footie show in the future.     

FFS he wasnt when all this happened either DSM5 this is 7 years old! FFS people have kids here younger than that and probably barely remember their conception
 
Dan, I don't quite get your point here, other than saying this event is seven years old and somehow should be quietly forgotten.  I'm of the opinion that Newcastle should give us the 97 GF cup.  Some stuff is not forgotten, nor should be just because years pass.  Think sexual abuse or drugged up footballers.
 
DSM, So if you're employer found out five years before you were employed for them, you were investigated, but not charged with a crime, and then I (because I do not like you as an eg), knowing about, sent an email to your boss with that information, you would be happy with it?
 
Pretty much what Dan said ^

If you honestly think that the Knights should give up the 97 GF because two or three of their players were on juice around that time, then you really need a perspective change.

Johns has not been charged! He will never be charged!
 
Cliffy, the thing is Johns is a highly paid media personality, I'm not.  He's fair game, as are all personalities who use the media to promote themselves.  So if he had skeletons in the closet, and he's admitted he's been thinking this would be outed for the last 7 years, then there you go.  Outed and out.  He can employ the same guy who worked with his druggo brother to climb off the mat.  No pun intended.
 
Apparantly tonight on Channel 9 news there will be an interview with a friend of "Clare" and her story supposedly supports Matthew Johns version???
 
Matabele link said:
KE I think the majority of the population are incredulous that any girl would willingly allow 12 blokes to do what they did without their being some issue of coersion or abuse of power. 
I think that is the case - does it mean that girls like that don't exist? No rightly or wrongly I'm sure they do.
 

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