Four Corners

[Rex]

The point is quite simple, she is parading herself as an innocent young naive girl, and she was far from it, just have to ask many of the truckies that rolled through the hotel while she worked there.
To counter your point, why does Matt Johns opinion that it was all consensual not count ?
We all make wrong decisions, everyone on here has. Have I been damaged by some experiences ? Yep. Did I personally make a choice to put myself in that situation, Yes again

I have been around plenty of footy sides, and have yet to encounter a \"group sex culture\". Does 3-4 incidents over a 7-8 year period mean Footy has a group sex culture ?

Actually I didn't hear her parade herself as the innocent victim as you claim.  I heard her talk about blaming herself, to the point of wanting to take her own life.  And angry with them. Victims of abuse often do blame themselves irrespective of the facts and power differentials and suffer with feelings of ongoing anger.  Didn't you hear her say all that Kiwi? Filters on?

You want to take Matty Johns' word that there was consent when he himself says he felt the need to apologise to her in the carpark afterwards. I can just imagine Matty saying "how about coming back to the motel room so the football team can climb through the bathroom window and get their rocks off masturbating and ogling and feeling you up etc while watching you have sex?" Or did those players climbing through the bathroom window individually asked her first? And they all kept saying "are you sure you're OK with all of this? "How about you take some time to consider that because we wouldn't want to do something you might later regret, or which may cause harm?" And sensitively watching for any signals of discomfort.

You want us to believe derogatory and defaming things about her because you heard some unsubstantiated rumours about her?  Unidentified radio callers and such.  And we worry about Stewart getting a fair trial. We wonder why sex abuse victims fear repercussions from telling the truth.

What state of mind were the 12 footballers in when they were in the room watching/participating in a 19 year old girl having sex and masturbating?  Were they assessing whether this was in the girl's best interests? Or were they self-absorbed and uncaring about any impact of their actions on her?  

Did they interview past hotel visitors to assess her prior history? Did they carefully assess they were doing no harm? Or did they just go ahead regardless of any potential damage, oblivious to knowledge of any prior history?

Why would Matty Johns or his mate invite the group to clandestinely enter through the bathroom window?  Did not one of them stop for a moment and consider whether they were doing the right thing?  Did not one of them have any reservations?  If not, how do you conclude that this was a one-off?

I'm curious, Kiwi.  Why are you so keen to point the finger at, and defame, her?  To make the players the innocent victim?

 

[Matabele]

I am astounded at the whitewashing the Telegraph gave it in the edition I saw - maybe it is the country edition.

It highlighted his apology to the girl for the other men entering the room before going on to say he'd done his business before the other players came.

If that was indeed the case, then why the need for the apology? 

And why did the Tele not mention that the girl herself claimed Johns was a ringleader, egging the others on.

Even if she were going back to the room to have sex with the one or two players, I can understand the intimidation of up to 11 men joining the fray and her basically being coerced into stuff she would not have originally gone to the room for. 

It's a haunting scenario the show painted last night and if Ch 9 have any scruples (which is possibly unlikely) they cannot put him in front of a camera again.  I'm not holding my breath though.

Phil Rothfield's blog is stunning reading, and I don;t often agree with the bloke.  For once it is good to see someone pull the gloves off on an issue of justice

 

[Rex]

... It totally peed me off that they did not mention the recent incident involving the Broncos players. If they talk about something that happened in 2002, then hello, what about 2008.
There are definitely some protected species in this game....

You wouldn't claim the media-owned team gains media privileges would you Nicci? How outrageous!  It is possible that the girl involved didn't want further damage to her reputation from unfounded speculation and accusations on footy forums and the like.  But to lead in with the disputed Stewie allegations and yet exclude the admitted Brisbane photograph-taking group sex-trio was a stunning disparity.

 

[Rex]

It highlighted his apology to the girl for the other men entering the room before going on to say he'd done his business before the other players came.

So if Matty Johns had done his stuff, and his mate was presumably otherwise involved, who let the team in through the bathroom window then?

Expecting Murdoch media to damage Murdoch goods is like expecting the Telegraph to report fairly and accurately.

 

[Matabele]

Here is the text in question:

Four Corners revealed that Johns later sought out the woman, identified as Clare, in the carpark of a Christchurch Hotel to apologise for the other players in the room.

As Johns and his family tried the escape the public glare at a West Australian resort, it also emerged that he and the woman had finished their liaison before others had entered the room.

The only other thing in the country edition is a soft piece on page 7 bemoaning the impact on his family.  Perhaps the city editions were sent out after the 4 Corners program and reflect more of the outrage that appears to be in the public arena today.

But where did they get the it also emerged that he and the woman had finished their liaison before others had entered the room from????

I don't recall it, but I do know Clare said that Johns was egging the others on.  It seems Gallen was the one who arrived at the end and perhaps pulled the curtains and told the girl to get going.

It looks to me like Fordham tried to buy the Tele off, but after the show went to air they realised that wasn't going to wash.  Too late for the country edition though ......

 

[Canteen Worker]

Danny Weidler in the Sun Herald also had a piece putting Matt Johns case as consenual and no problem at all (except from his wife!)  It was a classic piece of 'looking after your mates' in the same way he is a proponent for Sonny Bill!!  He has no credibility that guy - and why they roll Rebecca Wilson on this issue is beyond me?

 

[Matabele]

Danny Weidler in the Sun Herald also had a piece putting Matt Johns case as consenual and no problem at all (except from his wife!)  It was a classic piece of 'looking after your mates' in the same way he is a proponent for Sonny Bill!!  He has no credibility that guy - and why they roll Rebecca Wilson on this issue is beyond me?

  It was looking like it would be swept under the carpet until the show itself aired.  However, John's attempt to pre-empt it, Fatty's response, a backdrop of noone asking about the girl's welfare played up against the obvious rawness of the girl's experience made for compelling and damning television.

Johns made his millions playing a caddish, lovable oaf.  All that is dead in the water now and if he's a one trick pony, he's rat **** and deservedly so.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Danny Weidler in the Sun Herald also had a piece putting Matt Johns case as consenual and no problem at all (except from his wife!)  It was a classic piece of 'looking after your mates' in the same way he is a proponent for Sonny Bill!!  He has no credibility that guy - and why they roll Rebecca Wilson on this issue is beyond me?

I nearly wet myself laughing when I read The Worms justification for not reporting the story earlier. Since when has this grub let facts, or empathy for the subjects of his muckraking stand in the way of him publishing spurious stories. He is so low grade that he gives journalists a bad name.

I also see that he had his obligatory weekly story on SBW.......FFS let it go Danny. I'm betting he wears SBW pyjamas to bed, well at least on the nights that he has to finally wash the stains out of his Mundine The Man pyjamas.

 

[Canteen Worker]

I'm betting he wears SBW pyjamas to bed, well at least on the nights that he has to finally wash the stains out of his Mundine The Man pyjamas.

 

[fLIP]

get a consensual sex form written up. Its treating people like children I know and most liklely you will be totally pissed but if your gonna gang bang a chick or throw someone the bone get them to sign the paper first stating consent. 

Good idea imo, however, slightly impractical.

On a side note, does anyone else find it just slightly strange that 16 blokes (THE ENTIRE ****ING FOOTBALL TEAM) can be standing around allegedly pack raping a girl and not 1 single player has a problem with or makes an attempt to stop it? I can understand a gang rape by ferals but with football teams, guys of different ages backgrounds its hard to believe the ods of picking an entire team of rapists. The logic of it doesn't really back up her traumatised state.

 

[Garts]

Agree Flip.  I find it hard to believe that out of 12 guys all 12 of them would be low enough animals to condone gang rape.  I would like to think that someone would have stood up and said this is not right if she was showing signs of not feeling comfortable in the situation. 

But I guess as Mata said she may very well have been very intimidated and coerced into the whole act. 

 

[Rodo]

And it's interesting why Gallen was named as he didn't even take part.  And also Firman.  What about the other guys who were in the room?  But then from what the girl said, the only person she could remember was Johns.  Wouldn't Johns and Firman have to identify the other players when talking to the police or couldn't they remember?

And Firman wasn't even in the first grade team back in 2002.  But I did hear that Greg Bird was in the Sharks team.  Funny why his story didn't get a mention on the show.

 

[lsz]

Would guess that as the Bird case was on going they could not comment (also why stewie was mentioned but not focused on)

 

[Fluffy]

[quote author=Fluffy link=topic=180349.msg222403#msg222403 date=1242095162]
the way this thread reads a lot of people seem to thing rugby league players are the only ones who get involved in group sex acts.

I would say they make up less than 1% in australia

You sound well researched Fluffy.
[/quote]

i know people who are into that scene and add all you other male dominated groups (sports, military etc) to that as well.

Heard a story about some army blokes up on rape allegations, they sent a copy of the video through and it was dropped immediatly.

 

[DSM5]

Was Jason 'I'm a virgin and proud of it' Stevens in the team then? 

 

[Garts]

Was Jason 'I'm a virgin and proud of it' Stevens in the team then? 

Yup.  He was probably masturbating in the corner. 

 

[Matabele]

On a side note, does anyone else find it just slightly strange that 16 blokes (THE ENTIRE F**kING FOOTBALL TEAM) can be standing around allegedly pack raping a girl and not 1 single player has a problem with or makes an attempt to stop it? I can understand a gang rape by ferals but with football teams, guys of different ages backgrounds its hard to believe the ods of picking an entire team of rapists. The logic of it doesn't really back up her traumatised state.

Reading between the lines it appears Gallen may have done just that.  It takes a brave man to challenge 12 others in a team environment when they think a stand needs to be taken.  It is quite possible that many of these players were younger and impressionable (it could have been a large squad on tour in the pre-season) and with the girl fingering Johns as a ring-leader who was egging others on and laughing and joking, it is not entirely implausible that there were some there uncomfortable with what was happening, but lacking the gumption to pull it up.

Given the show was watched by 1 million people +, and nearly 50% of them were women, the most damning part of the story was the girl dressing herself while the blokes stood around ogling her still but chatting and laughing to themselves.  That was the final straw for several of the women I've spoken to about the incident.  I think they're projecting themselves into feeling what it wouyld be like if that happened to them. 

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

[quote author=Kiwi Eagle link=topic=180349.msg222457#msg222457 date=1242118216]
The point is quite simple, she is parading herself as an innocent young naive girl, and she was far from it, just have to ask many of the truckies that rolled through the hotel while she worked there.
To counter your point, why does Matt Johns opinion that it was all consensual not count ?
We all make wrong decisions, everyone on here has. Have I been damaged by some experiences ? Yep. Did I personally make a choice to put myself in that situation, Yes again

I have been around plenty of footy sides, and have yet to encounter a \"group sex culture\". Does 3-4 incidents over a 7-8 year period mean Footy has a group sex culture ?

Actually I didn't hear her parade herself as the innocent victim as you claim.  I heard her talk about blaming herself, to the point of wanting to take her own life.  And angry with them. Victims of abuse often do blame themselves irrespective of the facts and power differentials and suffer with feelings of ongoing anger.  Didn't you hear her say all that Kiwi? Filters on?

You want to take Matty Johns' word that there was consent when he himself says he felt the need to apologise to her in the carpark afterwards. I can just imagine Matty saying "how about coming back to the motel room so the football team can climb through the bathroom window and get their rocks off masturbating and ogling and feeling you up etc while watching you have sex?" Or did those players climbing through the bathroom window individually asked her first? And they all kept saying "are you sure you're OK with all of this? "How about you take some time to consider that because we wouldn't want to do something you might later regret, or which may cause harm?" And sensitively watching for any signals of discomfort.

You want us to believe derogatory and defaming things about her because you heard some unsubstantiated rumours about her?  Unidentified radio callers and such.  And we worry about Stewart getting a fair trial. We wonder why sex abuse victims fear repercussions from telling the truth.

What state of mind were the 12 footballers in when they were in the room watching/participating in a 19 year old girl having sex and masturbating?  Were they assessing whether this was in the girl's best interests? Or were they self-absorbed and uncaring about any impact of their actions on her?  

Did they interview past hotel visitors to assess her prior history? Did they carefully assess they were doing no harm? Or did they just go ahead regardless of any potential damage, oblivious to knowledge of any prior history?

Why would Matty Johns or his mate invite the group to clandestinely enter through the bathroom window?  Did not one of them stop for a moment and consider whether they were doing the right thing?  Did not one of them have any reservations?  If not, how do you conclude that this was a one-off?

I'm curious, Kiwi.  Why are you so keen to point the finger at, and defame, her?  To make the players the innocent victim?
[/quote]

TBH, I really don't have the time, or will, to go on and on about this with you

I haven't seen the show, what I have seen is her version of events in the local rag in Chch, and I have seen Johns response

YOu say I want you to believe what I am saying, I really couldn't give a stuff if you believe it or not. You call them rumours or whatever you like, coming from somebody who worked beside her for a period of time, both leading into and post the event, I can form an opinion from that If i choose

I can't be bothered answering all your questions, just the last one will do.

I am not trying to make anybody guilty or innocent, you are the bloke doing that after a show that provided 1 side of a story.

And you can stop the lecturing to me about the mental state of people having suicidal thoughts, and rape victims and the like. I have far more experience in this area than you would presume

Anyhow, this is a footy forum, so back to the footy for me

 

[Canteen Worker]

Was Jason 'I'm a virgin and proud of it' Stevens in the team then? 

Not sure, though Stevens never claimed to be a virgin, he just stopped 'bonking around' when he became a Christian.

 

[DSM5]

Canteen, I'm sure Jason 'I'm a virgin and proud of it' Stevens said that he was holding back until he got married and that he was a virgin.  Maybe he said that to Matty 'this is how you do it' Johns as he watched.  Weird really.  Anyway it's the end of Johns on the TV.  Good really, as he was very irritating.